Anyone else think it's weird to kill Garrosh but not do anything about Sylvanas?

[Haven]

Forsaken plague, sitting around near their forces, in glass vats, seems like an ideal target for a cannonball. Too bad the Alliance is written as painfully stupid and can't think to do that and dissolve the forsaken away with their own crap.

For masters of chemistry like Forsaken, inventing a strain that would be lethal for living and harmless for undead is no big deal, they have a collection of those since vanilla. Besides, those things tend to be in the rear, while catapults do their dirty job in the front.

[Darkenedfist]

If I remember that quote correctly, it was more about putting her in her place. As in, laying down the law. Disciplining her.

If you meant disciplining with 'she'll get what's coming to her' then forgive me.

I've seen people mention this blue post but I can't seem to find it do you guys know were I can find it.

[Xykotic]

Traask mentioned that the next Warchief will go hard on Sylvannas for the whole Lich Queen thing and pretty much end her plans. Said a developer mentioned it. I need to ask him where did he find it to see it for myself.

Well, then i reckon it's gonna be Saurfang, afterall he seemed pretty shaken up by the whole Dranosh situation.

[Scummer]

The thing is, there are so many leaders needing a story in game and Blizzard doesn't really have that much opportunities to tell them. So instead of killing a fleshed out character and building a patch around the successor i'd rather see Baine or Gallywix or Ji Firepaw get some story treatment first. Same with the Alliance.

They're actually doing a pretty fine job Horde wise fleshing out characters. Vol'jin and Lor'themar are getting some pretty good story, especially for characters that have sat idle for a long time.
Also the I doubt we'd see this Forsaken Council stay inactive. The Forsaken have been one of the Blizzards (Particularly Kosak's) most consistently developed races going so far.
The problem occurs that if she's being kept alive for reasons to do with the writing as you believe rather than what the story dictates then she's inevitably will be be (and already is in my eyes) a hugely plot armoured character who cannot have anything bad happen to her because of reasons not relevant to actual story itself. There needs to actually be a reason in lore for the Alliance to not go on a witch hunt for her after SoO, heck we've heard that there is still distrust and some violence between the two after SoO and be willing to put money on it that it's Sylvanas' doing.

[Deleted]

The thing we have to remember about the Forsaken is that following Wrathgate were in the doghouse and Garrosh wasted no time in throwing them into a conflict as cannon fodder, their only use is being hard to kill and dying in an Orc's place.

The Forsaken have been ordered to secure Lorderon and Gilneas in a war that Sylvanas saw in a vision they would lose without her.

Kor'Kron control her city, Sylvanas herself is "Guarded" by Mag'har minders banning the use of Plague. She is under the gun from Garrosh to produce results, to her the means do not matter much as long as she wins and the Forsaken survive.

Moving forward I would like to see a scenario where Garrosh's Kor'Kron in Undercity finally get kicked out like the Dreadlords were in WC3 TFT.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Forsaken during the rebellion and into the future under the new Warchief.

[Sixteen18]

I think it is inevitable that the forsaken will become the new scourge, but it's not going to happen until the final expansion of this game. Since vanilla and through every expansion we have been shown that the forsaken have no intention of getting along with the living, unlike all other races they can only procreate by killing other living beings. They also don't require food, are immortal and their culture is based almost exclusively on warfare because the undead simply don't care about anything else. They have been dominating the battles in Arathi and Hillsbrad because that front is just a lost cause for the alliance. Stormwind isn't going to send a lot of forces up north when they constantly have to fight Orcs on other fronts and also be the primary Alliance military force against the central foe every expansion. Ironforge has always been more about defending their borders rather than launching full scale invasions. Forsaken on other hand could care less about non-alliance enemies other than Scourge and easily expand their borders using superior forces.

Forsaken are only staying with the horde because they do not have the forces to push a world invasion, even Arthas rapidly lost most of his land when pushed by Alliance, Horde and Argent Crusade on multiple fronts. Their logic is similar to demons, they cannot coexist with anyone and the only way to ensure their survival is to kill everyone. Sooner or later they'll build up the force to try.

[Sixteen18]

I think it is inevitable that the forsaken will become the new scourge, but it's not going to happen until the final expansion of this game. Since vanilla and through every expansion we have been shown that the forsaken have no intention of getting along with the living, unlike all other races they can only procreate by killing other living beings. They also don't require food, are immortal and their culture is based almost exclusively on warfare because the undead simply don't care about anything else. They have been dominating the battles in Arathi and Hillsbrad because that front is just a lost cause for the alliance. Stormwind isn't going to send a lot of forces up north when they constantly have to fight Orcs on other fronts and also be the primary Alliance military force against the central foe every expansion. Ironforge has always been more about defending their borders rather than launching full scale invasions. Forsaken on other hand could care less about non-alliance enemies other than Scourge and easily expand their borders using superior forces.

Forsaken are only staying with the horde because they do not have the forces to push a world invasion, even Arthas rapidly lost most of his land when pushed by Alliance, Horde and Argent Crusade on multiple fronts. Their logic is similar to demons, they cannot coexist with anyone and the only way to ensure their survival is to kill everyone. Sooner or later they'll build up the force to try.

[Haven]

Moving forward I would like to see a scenario where Garrosh's Kor'Kron in Undercity finally get kicked out like the Dreadlords were in WC3 TFT.

I believe the moment the power in Horde shifts out of orcish hands, their faces will melt, quite literally. They are in the city of Azeroth's most insidious and skilled poisoners, which have access to their food, drinks, and air they breathe.

[Yriel]

It doesn't make sense why ORCS would want to remove him, but Trolls had their leader assasinated and their islands put under marshal law, and the Blood elves got called to a combat zone without being TOLD it was a combat zone, and the Tauren... well the tauren had cairne murdered by him and Garrosh is just doing things in general they don't agree with.

But yeah Garrosh is bloody FANTASTIC for the Orcs, if he weren't racist he'd be a decent leader in general. (Inb4 people scream at me about all the other 'evil' things he's done to the Alliance that the Horde really ought not care about if they're getting more land and resources in the longrun)

I'm sure there are a lot of Thrall sympathizers among the Orcs. When you quest in Durotar and the Barrens there are several Orcs (like the Farmer in the Barrens) who are tired of the fighting and just want to live their life in peace. So Garrosh is probably fantastic for all the young and naive Orcs who dream of glory and bloodshed but i guess the more mature Orcs would favor Thrall.

Forsaken slaughter non-human 7th legion mooks and their human commander. At the end, you see worgen offensive quickly pushed back to Gilneas.

You are right but still Gilneas is Alliance-controlled at the end of the questline.

[sharkee]

You touch my Queen, you will die. Glory to Sylvanas.

[Deleted]

Well sylvanas is a interesting charcter, she is evil. Every part of it, for all other then the forsagen, she gladly will do 100% the same as lich king, Use the plague to kill people, and then resurcting them. But hordes will whine over "OMG we lost 2 importen charcters" if she dies to fast

[Cerebrate]

This is all a popularity contest. A lot of people didn't like Garrosh so they are killing him.

[Scummer]

You are right but still Gilneas is Alliance-controlled at the end of the questline.

The Battle for Gilneas BG says it's still contested.
Would be nice to see a conclusion, but with it being a BG nothing will probably happen.

[Ryme]

She's "hot" so we let her through the cracks, just like in real life.

[Scummer]

This is all a popularity contest. A lot of people didn't like Garrosh so they are killing him.

But that's really it in a nutshell.
If the story is anything to go by there is no chance in hell that the Alliance should or will pack up it's bags on the Gilneas/Lordaeron front, after what she did to them they obviously want her head on a pike and for good reason.
How the Horde can still accept her is also something that makes no sense.

[Darksoldierr]

Third faction, go !

[DFu4ever]

I love when people act like Sylvanas is moustache-twirly evil when her motives for her actions are incredibly sound and justified from the perspective of the Forsaken. Not to mention she is pretty intelligent and not prone to random violence. She is literally a villain whose people had no innate need to expand and conquer and were ultimately driven to their extreme methods of defense by the Alliance. The best defense against the Forsaken is to leave them alone.

And before someone once again points out the Invasion of Gilneas as Forsaken aggression, let me once again point out that...

1) Garrosh ordered the assault, and the Forsaken had no recourse to say no.

2) "Sylvanas could have refused". Right, and suddenly the Forsaken would potentially lose their place in the Horde and find themselves standing alone against the Alliance (who have treated them as monsters from the very first moment).

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Ooh, wow!
I applaud you: *clap clap clap*
ELEVEN freaking pages of discussions and the best that people can produce as 'an argument' is: "lol, she has boobs!".

The appeal on Sylvanas is that every single day we have these discussions.
We don't have this nonsense about Garrosh, his actions are straightforward.

there's a population that is all "lol, she has boobs."

But I think the bigger appeal is that she is becoming an increasingly villainous, Arthas-esque character. People are waiting for the grand betrayal.

And the fact, when she betrays, Blizz won't lock all the forsaken characters. Forsaken will become a third faction.

PS. If anyone were to replace her, it'd be Nathanos Marris, or Calia Menethil.

[Scummer]

She is literally a villain whose people had no innate need to expand and conquer and were ultimately driven to their extreme methods of defense by the Alliance. The best defense against the Forsaken is to leave them alone.

The Alliance should leave them alone? How come? It's the Forsaken invading their land, the Alliance you see is a counter attack to Forsaken aggression. I don't know how the Alliance can be blamed at all when they're the ones defending themselves.

And before someone once again points out the Invasion of Gilneas as Forsaken aggression, let me once again point out that...

1) Garrosh ordered the assault, and the Forsaken had no recourse to say no.

2) "Sylvanas could have refused". Right, and suddenly the Forsaken would potentially lose their place in the Horde and find themselves standing alone against the Alliance (who have treated them as monsters from the very first moment).

She showed no guilt or remorse for what she did to both Gilneas and Southshore, she chased down the refugees of those who homes she destroyed in Southshore so that she could raise them into Undeath to add to her army which is nothing short of deliberate genocide for the sake furthering her own army. She isn't for one second innocent.
It is not the act of attacking a place that is the problem. It is how she did it.

The Alliance have treated them as monsters because that's all the Forsaken have ever been and done to them and for good reason. The first time they encountered a splinter of the Alliance they betrayed and slaughtered them all, following this she appoints a freaking Dreadlord as her second in command. Tell me why should be trusted if that is what they did as their first action as a people.
Why should the Alliance treat them any differently to what they've shown themselves to be?

[Falrinn]

I love when people act like Sylvanas is moustache-twirly evil when her motives for her actions are incredibly sound and justified from the perspective of the Forsaken. Not to mention she is pretty intelligent and not prone to random violence. She is literally a villain whose people had no innate need to expand and conquer and were ultimately driven to their extreme methods of defense by the Alliance. The best defense against the Forsaken is to leave them alone.

And before someone once again points out the Invasion of Gilneas as Forsaken aggression, let me once again point out that...

1) Garrosh ordered the assault, and the Forsaken had no recourse to say no.

2) "Sylvanas could have refused". Right, and suddenly the Forsaken would potentially lose their place in the Horde and find themselves standing alone against the Alliance (who have treated them as monsters from the very first moment).

And I find it equally amusing when people forget that it was the Forsaken, not the living humans, who struck first.

Way back in WC3:TFT before the Forsaken joined the Horde, Sylvanas made an alliance with Garithos after she freed him from Balnazzar's control. As part of the deal, both armies would work together to defeat the Dreadlord-controlled scourge operating in the capital, and Garithos would be given control of the city after the fact. After the battle, Sylvanas betrayed Garithos and his army, killing them and seized control of the city for the Forsaken.

While it's true that Garthios was never exactly the most accepting of...diversity and may not of honored the deal in the long term, the fact remains the first interaction between the Alliance and Forsaken ended with the Forsaken stabbing them in the back.