A potential solution to the Sylvanas issue

[Skytotem]

Alright so after the last thread I got thinking

1. After Garrosh is gone the Horde's going to be pretty focused on cleaning house and running a tighter ship to keep things like what he did from happening.

2. It'd be really difficult to bring Sylvanas and the Forsaken into peaceable cohabitation in the Eastern Kingdoms with the Alliance, particularly after killing Greymane's son, and Varians peek at Undercity in Wotlk.

3. When Sylvanas attempted (successfully, temporarily) suicide in her short story, she was in a really nasty shadow realm that seemed vaguely old-god-ish until the Val'kyr plucked her out of it.

4. Sylvanas is central enough to the Forsaken and popular enough with the playerbase to be difficult to outright 'kill off' even if her comeuppance would make sense.

5. The old gods, particularly yoggy and his puzzlebox, have a few things to say about death, here's just a few.

There is no escape. Not in this life, not in the next.

All places, all things have souls. All souls can be devoured.

The void sucks at your soul. It is content to feast slowly.

Yogg-Saron says: A thousand deaths... or one murder.
-Lane/Garona vision stuff-
Yogg-Saron says: Your petty quarrels only make me stronger!

So I got to thinking, what if the 'hell' that Sylvanas went to is a byproduct of the Old Gods, and there's no grand cosmic balance scale that decides who goes where, so much as people not tied to any other powers are 'fair game' for Old Gods when they die? If you have a deity or tie to another force like the Light, Loa, Elune or elemental and nature spirits, then they effectively keep you 'anchored' or protected from going to Old-god-hell.

Now, if Sylvanas were to die at the hands of Greymane, or pretty much anyone after she runs out of Greater Val'kyr, she'd end up back in that hellish shadowrealm... but would she necessarily be powerless there?

Could she potentially ascend to a sort of pseudo godhood where, even while trapped and suffering, she can function as a sort of deity for the Forsaken, slowly growing strong enough to escape?


I think it'd be pretty cool, and in her absence a more subtle government could control the forsaken, leaving them no less the token 'dark' members of the Horde, but no longer as set on expanding down into Stromgarde and the like.

Plus this would make it easier for them to work up rituals, or magic to replace the Val'kyr when they eventually run out. (Or if neither of those work, they can go full Frankenstein)


And it'd give the Forsaken a reason to go after the Old gods, weaken them and help Sylvie get free.


Sylvanas is being 'punished' for murdering people at Southshore and allowing horrific experimentation in her pursuit of going after Arthas, yet she's still a part of the Storyline and the game rather than being 'dead dead'.


Hardly a perfect solution but I'm fond of it.

[Buxton McGraff]

If Sylvanas is ever killed off, I'd quit. I'd like for her to be a bigger part of Horde leadership, and frankly I'm bored with hippy "let's all be happy and peaceful!" sense of feeling between some major horde and alliance figures.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

You're making a "solution" from an Alliance view. While I am Alliance what about the Horde? Maybe they do not see her as a problem.

[sscavenger]

That shadowy realm, is their version of Hell.

[Darkenedfist]

You're making a "solution" from an Alliance view. While I am Alliance what about the Horde? Maybe they do not see her as a problem.

Thats what it felt like to me, a way to appease the alliance fanbase. They probably don't, she hasn't done anything bad to the horde like how Garrosh is doing. I don't see why people are so hung up on southshore I get that the way she dealt with it was kinda crazy and overboard, but lets image what would happen if the horde had a port town in westfall do you think Varian would have sacked the town by now? And besides I thought that the next warchief will solve this problem by bringing some kind of punishment to the forsaken.

[Skytotem]

You're making a "solution" from an Alliance view. While I am Alliance what about the Horde? Maybe they do not see her as a problem.

I'm Horde, I'm just keeping in mind that the Horde's never really been onboard with a lot of what Sylvanas does, Drek'thar's rant for example.

[grisset]

I don't understand the need for a "solution" to the Sylvanas "issue".

[Darkenedfist]

I'm Horde, I'm just keeping in mind that the Horde's never really been onboard with a lot of what Sylvanas does, Drek'thar's rant for example.

The horde was never really on board with the forsaken's tactics as they consider them unhonorable.

[Skytotem]

Thats what it felt like to me, a way to appease the alliance fanbase. They probably don't, she hasn't done anything bad to the horde like how Garrosh is doing. I don't see why people are so hung up on southshore I get that the way she dealt with it was kinda crazy and overboard, but lets image what would happen if the horde had a port town in westfall do you think Varian would have sacked the town by now?

1. I know they dropped the plotlines but for a long while it was pretty obvious they were doing SOMETHING

http://www.wowpedia.org/Infiltrator_Marksen

http://www.wowpedia.org/Apothecary_Cylla

Plus they keep digging the Horde deeper down this diplomatic hole, like when they murdered all those druids in their sleep in the barrow dens in Ashenvale.

2. Not really a viable comparison since Southshore wasn't built when Forsaken already controlled the land, it's a place that's been there since WC2

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 12:35 AM ----------

The horde was never really on board with the forsaken's tactics as they consider them unhonorable.

Isn't that... exactly what you quoted me as saying?

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 12:35 AM ----------

Your idea sounds vaguely reminiscent of the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, the official state religion of Tirisfal. Although playing a major lore in Forsaken society in the lore, it has not been utilized in the game outside of Shadow Priests' spells and abilities. While Forsaken Shadow Priest and Dark Cleric NPCs are in abundance in the remnants of Lordaeron, the religion itself has been largely absent of a role.

Yeah plus most of it got gutted when the RPG was decanonized.

[Lothaeryn]

I don't understand the need for a "solution" to the Sylvanas "issue".

aside from "raising people against their will" and "plaguing every single thing that moves and isn't dead" and "being essentially the exact embodiment of what Arthas was without being manipulated by a cursed sword". Yea, i guess there is no "issue" with Sylvannas.

in before the Sylvannas brigade chimes in...

[Darkenedfist]

Not really a viable comparison since Southshore wasn't built when Forsaken already controlled the land, it's a place that's been there since WC2

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 12:35 AM ----------



Isn't that... exactly what you quoted me as saying?

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 12:35 AM ----------

1.I see were you are coming from however I used the westfall thing as an example because what military commander would allow the enemy to have a port city so close to their capital.

2. Ok that's a durp on my part.

[Skytotem]

I don't understand the need for a "solution" to the Sylvanas "issue".

She murdered the kid of another faction leader of 'good' alignment and has a limited number of 'rezzes'.

By all the laws of videogame and fantasy story tropes she is SLATED for death.

[crazymack]

As a member of the Deathstalkers, you idea has been noted and your name listed.

(Back to real life) Not another I hate Sylvanas thread...I'm just going to put it out there, read a tragedy. If you happen to enjoy it, then you can hopefully look at the forsaken in a different light. I use enjoy from the lack of a better word, normally people don't "enjoy" tragedies.

Notable Tragedies:

Antony and Cleopatra
Coriolanus
Hamlet
Julius Caesar
King Lear
Macbeth
Othello
Romeo and Juliet
Timon of Athens
The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus
Tamburlaine the Great
The Duchess of Malfi
The White Devil

[Skytotem]

As a member of the Deathstalkers, you idea has been noted and your name listed.

(Back to real life) Not another I hate Sylvanas thread...I'm just going to put it out there, read a tragedy. If you happen to enjoy it, then you can hopefully look at the forsaken in a different light. I use enjoy from the lack of a better word, normally people don't "enjoy" tragedies.

Notable Tragedies:

Antony and Cleopatra
Coriolanus
Hamlet
Julius Caesar
King Lear
Macbeth
Othello
Romeo and Juliet
Timon of Athens
The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus
Tamburlaine the Great
The Duchess of Malfi
The White Devil

See the post above... and I'm sorry, if she actually gave a damn about the Forsaken and didn't just pretend to, as revealed in her short story... I'd be all for her being a karma houdini... but since she doesn't, and she killed Liam... AND has a limited number of lives... it's just not gonna happen.

She's gonna die SOMEDAY.

[Darkenedfist]

Liam jumped in front of the arrow to save Genn it's not like she purposely went out of her way to kill Liam like how Garrosh attacked Anduin.

[Skytotem]

Liam jumped in front of the arrow to save Genn it's not like she purposely went out of her way to kill Liam like how Garrosh attacked Anduin.

y'know I'm sure Genn cares a whole lot and sees the difference...

[Darkenedfist]

y'know I'm sure Genn cares a whole lot and sees the difference...

If Genn had his way the forsaken wouldn't be playable anymore and Sylvanas wouldn't have been there in the first place if Garrosh didn't force her into the "doghouse".

[Deleted]

''solution to the Sylvanas issue''

Kill her. And rest of the forsaken aswell. Forsaken players gets free race chance to another horde race. Problem solved and wow lore makes bit more sense once again.

[mistuhbull]

Liam jumped in front of the arrow to save Genn it's not like she purposely went out of her way to kill Liam like how Garrosh attacked Anduin.

You say this like Garrosh sought out Anduin to smack him around. Rather than what actually happened where Anduin interrupted a military event and had his champion slay a large number of Garrosh's soldiers

[Justignoreme]

I personally think it'd be more interesting for the Forsaken to try and figure out Mogu stonebinding magic to transcend flesh and death, but it appears they are only interested in learning about this saurok plague or what not. If they keep going around with the plague it needs to be their downfall, as in, getting plagued themselves by saboteurs or targeted artillery strikes. Something which breaks their plot armour and breaks it hard.

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 07:19 AM ----------

Forsaken players gets free race chance to another horde race.

They would quit. There are a lot of Forsaken players who play them simply to immerse themselves as an apathetic zombie murderer. Sadly these types do a disservice to the lore and the race overall since that really shouldn't and isn't the portrayal of the forsaken. Also people quit over will of the forsaken being nerfed... you think they'd happily re-roll an orc or troll and go about it as if nothing is different?