2013 NBA Season News and Discussion

[Neazy]

Remember those days when people, including me, thought the Lakers would figure stuff out and Howard would eat people inside? Good times lol.

Before the season a friend bet me 50 bucks the Lakers would win it all. He paid me last week.

[Skarsguard]

I wonder if Timmy is still hurt or if he is taking time off during the easy schedule they have had last few games knowing how Pop runs his team it's probably the case.

[jreg]

I'm too lazy to find conscripts old quote, but I'll say it again: they've barely played together. It takes time to mesh well. "...and what was projected as the starting lineup at the start of the season has played together for 117 minutes (fewer than three games)....". Clearly they should have a record of 70-12 with this amount of playing time their first season together.

And making up statements I did not make also warrants a sarcastic quip.

Beyond that, 20-26 is still shit with the kind of talent on the roster. Playing time with a "projected starting roster" is largely irrelevant in this regard.

[icedwarrior]

And making up statements I did not make also warrants a sarcastic quip.

Yes, you didn't say that, but that was "basically" the mentality of everyone, just as it was with the Heat the first season together.

Beyond that, 20-26 is still shit with the kind of talent on the roster. Playing time with a "projected starting roster" is largely irrelevant in this regard.

When you have that talent constantly injured and/or not playing together, I don't expect them to perform at the highest level imaginable.

Sarcasm aside, 117 minutes together. That is all.

But meh, I'm a Laker fan, so I think I'll just excuse myself from this discussion. We're obviously not going to see eye to eye on this.

[jreg]

Yes, you didn't say that, but that was "basically" the mentality of everyone, just as it was with the Heat the first season together.

Funnily enough, having seen the way the Heat started off and as a fan, I expected the Lakers to struggle mightily at the start. I did not see them struggling this far into the season. Honestly, the horrendous defense was the biggest surprise.

When you have that talent constantly injured and/or not playing together, I don't expect them to perform at the highest level imaginable.

Sarcasm aside, 117 minutes together. That is all.

But meh, I'm a Laker fan, so I think I'll just excuse myself from this discussion. We're obviously not going to see eye to eye on this.

Right, first off, that was written on Jan 11th. They're up to 150 minutes now. Secondly, this is also self-inflicted thanks to Gasol's benching. You can't just point at the injury bug and say, "look, that's it!" The Heat are also 14 - 1 without Wade. Heck, they've won with both LeBron AND Wade out.

As a point of comparison, the Heat have only two lineups over 100 minutes both of them potential starting units. The Lakers have FIVE lineups over the 100 minute mark.

The problem with the Lakers comes down to two things; horrendous coaching and not giving a fuck. Their defense has been awful and that's mostly an effort issue. The injury bug is a cop out.

[icedwarrior]

Funnily enough, having seen the way the Heat started off and as a fan, I expected the Lakers to struggle mightily at the start. I did not see them struggling this far into the season. Honestly, the horrendous defense was the biggest surprise.

So we both agree on this. Cool. I, as well as you, expected them to struggle, while expecting them to improve later. They have not.

Right, first off, that was written on Jan 11th. They're up to 150 minutes now.

150 is hardly more than 117 minutes.

Secondly, this is also self-inflicted thanks to Gasol's benching. You can't just point at the injury bug and say, "look, that's it!" The Heat are also 14 - 1 without Wade. Heck, they've won with both LeBron AND Wade out.

While you're right that it's not 100% to blame (and I should have worded my last post differently), can we not agree that it's a major factor? Also, I'd like to point out that, according to the same article:

Bryant is the only player to start all 36 games

It's been a myriad of problems.

As a point of comparison, the Heat have only two lineups over 100 minutes both of them potential starting units. The Lakers have FIVE lineups over the 100 minute mark.

True, but this isn't their first season together. Trying to fit in major pieces such as Nash and Howard, among other players, is a bit more time consuming than what the Heat are doing. The Lakers are also in the West, which is a bit more competitive than the East, although this in no way excuses the Laker's poor performance.

The problem with the Lakers comes down to two things; horrendous coaching and not giving a fuck. Their defense has been awful and that's mostly an effort issue. The injury bug is a cop out.

I had my doubts going in, and I would agree that coaching has been bad. In terms of effort, I can't say because I haven't been watching the games, so I'll have to not comment on that part, but from what I read from multiple sources, I'd have to agree with you.

[Blueobelisk]

LAL had the talent to be good but meh everyone else has talent themselves, have actual chemistry, and are actually trying. LAL is looking like they're expecting teams to fall down just because they're playing the Lakers that night. No way lol, every single team in the league beside the bottom feeders are trying and could win.

Just like Gerald Wallace keeps calling out Nets saying they aren't trying hard enough. LAL sucks because they don't wanna try hard enough to play to their potential.

ANYWAY. Miami Heat is pretty stacked as far as teams go lol, it's so unfair..

Btw I was looking at Hoopshype since Memphis is jumping through hoops (lol get it?) to get under salary cap.



If the salary cap is like $58 mil and the tax goes into hypermode starting next season, won't almost all teams get hit?

[jreg]

So we both agree on this. Cool. I, as well as you, expected them to struggle, while expecting them to improve later. They have not.

I think anyone expecting a 72 win season was either a dumbass or a non-fan.

150 is hardly more than 117 minutes.

Depends on the team but you're not necessarily going to have your starting lineup play a ton of minutes every game. It's only the regular season after all. Spurs top line is at 178. Miami's is at 322. For comparison, OKC's top line is at almost 700.

While you're right that it's not 100% to blame (and I should have worded my last post differently), can we not agree that it's a major factor? Also, I'd like to point out that, according to the same article:

Sure it's a factor but I still think the Lakers would be a top 4 team in the West if they gave a shit on the defensive end, injuries or not. The effort and motivation outside of Kobe is not there. Even Kobe has been lacking on the D.

True, but this isn't their first season together. Trying to fit in major pieces such as Nash and Howard, among other players, is a bit more time consuming than what the Heat are doing. The Lakers are also in the West, which is a bit more competitive than the East, although this in no way excuses the Laker's poor performance.

True but it shouldn't be taking this long even with injuries. There's a lack of sacrifice here.

[fizzbob]

antoni's teams don't play d

the system puts you in a position to be vulnerable in transition AND reduces the chance for offensive boards.

and honestly howard is as overrated as bynum but at least bynum wasn't a walking vagina.
if buss wasn't so goddamn full of himself, the lakers would be a top 4 team in the west with jackson leading the way

even with mike brown and a better defense, they'd be in the top 8

but knee jerk reactions rarely produce the results you want and the firing of brown was a knee jerk reaction. it couldn't have happend to a better franchise
antoni's teams simply can not compete for a championship. his best team couldn't even win the conference against a defensively inept west

[conscript]

antoni's teams don't play d

This is and always has been false and you look like a bandwagoner for repeating it. The Suns were perfectly league average on defense throughout his entire reign in Phoenix when adjusted for pace and the Knicks were a top 10 defense before he was fired/quit last year.

I don't know if anyone is watching the TNT game, but at halftime they showed an old video of Ernie from the 80s and Kenny said he was smuggling grapes. I legitimately fell on my floor and laughed for like 5 minutes. Sure it was alcohol aided but that was the funniest shit I have heard in a long time on live tv.

[jreg]

but knee jerk reactions rarely produce the results you want and the firing of brown was a knee jerk reaction. it couldn't have happend to a better franchise
antoni's teams simply can not compete for a championship. his best team couldn't even win the conference against a defensively inept west

Except they ran into the Spurs and Mavs. Both of them had good D. Actually, the Spurs had fantastic fucking D. Defensively inept West my ass.

[fizzbob]

This is and always has been false and you look like a bandwagoner for repeating it. The Suns were perfectly league average on defense throughout his entire reign in Phoenix when adjusted for pace and the Knicks were a top 10 defense before he was fired/quit last year.

I don't know if anyone is watching the TNT game, but at halftime they showed an old video of Ernie from the 80s and Kenny said he was smuggling grapes. I legitimately fell on my floor and laughed for like 5 minutes. Sure it was alcohol aided but that was the funniest shit I have heard in a long time on live tv.

"they were league average when adjusted for pace on a sunday when the moon was in its 18th sphere of hope"

come on, they were a bottom 10 defense during his tenure. you should know when you gotta use all those dumbass qualifiers like you did that you're not making a point worth the time

they fucking sucked on d and couldn't win the west. and bandwagoner? what fucking bandwagon am i on to not believe d'antoni is a championship coach, since he's never won any championship

you sound like a homer grasping at straws. get back to me when dantoni gets HIS lakers back to .500

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 10:02 PM ----------

Except they ran into the Spurs and Mavs. Both of them had good D. Actually, the Spurs had fantastic fucking D. Defensively inept West my ass.

from 2005-2008 the west gave up 2.7ppg more than the east

so fuck yeah, defensively inept conference describes them well. his best teams couldn't get by the teams in the playoffs who COULD play defense. 1st in the regular season means jack shit when you're giving up over 102ppg and even make it to the finals

[jreg]

"they were league average when adjusted for pace on a sunday when the moon was in its 18th sphere of hope"

come on, they were a bottom 10 defense during his tenure. you should know when you gotta use all those dumbass qualifiers like you did that you're not making a point worth the time

they fucking sucked on d and couldn't win the west. and bandwagoner? what fucking bandwagon am i on to not believe d'antoni is a championship coach, since he's never won any championship

you sound like a homer grasping at straws. get back to me when dantoni gets HIS lakers back to .500

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 10:02 PM ----------



from 2005-2008 the west gave up 2.7ppg more than the east

so fuck yeah, defensively inept conference describes them well. his best teams couldn't get by the teams in the playoffs who COULD play defense. 1st in the regular season means jack shit when you're giving up over 102ppg and even make it to the finals

You know, I was gonna explain how exactly pace works and where exactly Phoenix placed during their prime 2000s years. I was gonna explain why taking an average is a retarded idea. In the end, this image is sufficient:

http://i.imgur.com/lPi0p2g.jpg

Infracted.

[Jibjabb]

Suns were never good on defense mostly cause of playstyle and a few personnel. When you play that fast a lot more shots are going to be taken so the points you give up with be higher. Conversely Houston at the time played so damn slow it made their defense look good when it was mostly average. Nash and Stoudemire were always weak at best defenders, so I cant blame D'Antoni for all of their defensive woes, I would however give him some blame. Its still more about up-tempo style that leads to more fastbreaks for you and the other team.

[icedwarrior]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lPi0p2g.jpg[IMG]

Yeah, definitely a good idea to call someone "fucking retarded". Multiple times.

[jreg]

Yeah, definitely a good idea to call someone "fucking retarded". Multiple times.

Calling it as I see it.

[fixit]

Been winning a lot on multibets this season, $3049 on 10 games for $5 dollars is my best yet. Seems like there are a lot of smart followers here what sites do you look at for tips

[Skarsguard]

If you get infracted in the sports section then you know you went to far conscript is pretty laid back for a mod.

OT: Memphis was never in that game last night OKC controlled the whole game last night is was pretty one sided and not a great watch.

As much as I like Manu I think its time for Spurs to look start rebuilding soon before it just gets to late and he just get's paid to much for being injury prone. I don't think the spurs will trade him but it wouldn't surprise me if they let him go first out of the big three. Timmy will retire as a Spur and they will probably try and build around Parker once Timmy leaves. I also think once Timmy does leave that Pop will retire as well IDK I just have this gut feeling about it.

[conscript]

"they were league average when adjusted for pace on a sunday when the moon was in its 18th sphere of hope"

come on, they were a bottom 10 defense during his tenure. you should know when you gotta use all those dumbass qualifiers like you did that you're not making a point worth the time

they fucking sucked on d and couldn't win the west. and bandwagoner? what fucking bandwagon am i on to not believe d'antoni is a championship coach, since he's never won any championship

you sound like a homer grasping at straws. get back to me when dantoni gets HIS lakers back to .500

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 10:02 PM ----------



from 2005-2008 the west gave up 2.7ppg more than the east

so fuck yeah, defensively inept conference describes them well. his best teams couldn't get by the teams in the playoffs who COULD play defense. 1st in the regular season means jack shit when you're giving up over 102ppg and even make it to the finals

1) I hate the Lakers desperately so no homer
2) Pace adjusted is one of the most important realizations in sports. Without adjusting for pace you would think Wisconsin basketball is this great revelation of the defensive game, and a great destruction on the offensive end, because they give up like 45 ppg. They aren't "that good." They are okay, but they play at a pace that molasses would laugh at. Look at Oregon's offense this year. They were phenomenal in every aspect, but when you look at the pace they are running at it takes some of the luster off. You cited the West giving up 2.7ppg more between 05-08. Here is why:
2007-08 Field Goal attempts:
1. Golden State
2. Denver
3. Phoenix
4. Lakers
5. Utah
6. Orlando
7. Indiana
8. Sacramento
9. New Orleans
10. Memphis

TWO of the top ten pace teams were in the East. It is like that almost every season. The West plays at a vastly different pace. It has very, very little to do with defense at all. In fact in this same season 6 of the top 10 Defensive Rating teams were from the WEST (Houston, San Antonio, Lakers, New Orleans, Dallas, Denver). So again, pace adjusted means EVERYTHING in sports. You can't purely contrast stats between two leagues without adjusting for key differences. Its like looking at the AL vs the NL in baseball and ignoring the existence of the DH when you say the AL is such a better offensive league.

Oh ya and you are just flat out WRONG about them being a bottom 10 defense during his tenure in Phoenix.
Defensive Rating for Phoenix (a pace adjusted defense measurement that accounts for points per 100 possessions not per game or something stupid like that or again Wisconsin would be the mecca of basketball defense in the universe)
2004-05- 17th
2005-06- 16th
2006-07- 13th
2007-08-16th
Gee I don't see a bottom 10 defense. You know what I do see though? A defense that was BETTER than league average in two of those seasons and just below it in the other two. By bandwagon I mean you are one of the people who repeats the same blatant mistatement about D'Antoni at every stop in his career. No his defense has never been Boston, but its never been Golden State either. He has been league average, or in the case of New York when they got a real defensive big, or much better.

If you get infracted in the sports section then you know you went to far conscript is pretty laid back for a mod.

Wasn't me :P But ya, definitely was worthy lol.

[Blueobelisk]

*coughs on Skars.* If you look at the edit message in that post you'll see it wasn't conscript.

Lol I don't even know what we're arguing about.

Meh. Miami vs. Indiana tonight. Sounds one sided. I'll prob just watch Knicks vs. Bucks.