Someone explain taxes to me

[Kujako]

I think it is achievable even without people living on moon. We could use remote control to manipulate equipment and robots

Not very well, unless we get around that whole speed of light thing. Which itself would be nifty. Otherwise you're looking at almost three seconds latency from earth to moon and back again.

[Mormolyce]

First of all wasting money to go to the moon serves no purpose other that to say we did it again. Nothing good can come from it.Secondly there is ALREADY a private company sending people into space soon. Its called Virgin Galactic

He's talking about Moon bases, that's quite a bit different from another lunar landing.

If i would be taxed like this (currently, i pay 13% for ~13.156$ per year), I would end with 9.867 per year (822,25 per month, converting it to rubbles = 23.845 at average).
I pay for utilities 7.000-13.000rub per month (water, electricity, internet, wow and so on), plus, i need extra clothing due to cold winter (-15 -30 at average) and hot summer (+15 +25 at average). After doing calcualtions i will end up with 16.845-10.845 per month to live (official living wage is 5100 rub, but this is bullshit, because you can afford only bread and milk on this money over a month), i spend around 10.000 on food and all what is left i translate into a savings account.
With current taxes (13%), i have at least 4.000 rub to save every month, with flat tax i will have nothing.

Well, if your numbers are accurate, government will need to almost double taxes (which comes into mine 2-3 exaggerated assumption)

Ah well, you may be right there but my calculations were based off US figures so it might work out differently in Russia.

---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 05:14 AM ----------

Eh, that's not so bad, from Mars to Earth it's about 14 minutes if I remember correctly.

Depends where they both are in their orbits. It's 8.3 light minutes from the Earth to the Sun, Mars' orbit is about 1.5 times the diameter of Earth's so it's about 13 light mins from the Sun (averaging its perihelion and aphelion - Mars' orbit is more eccentric than Earth's).

So when Mars and Earth line up on the same side of the Sun they'd be about 4.7 light minutes apart, and when they're on opposite sides they'd be about 21.3 light minutes apart. Of course when the Sun occludes Mars you'd need satellites set up somewhere to bounce the signal around the Sun so it might take even longer (I wonder if Mars' leading/trailing Lagrange points would be sufficiently far out for this to be practical).

[Vuljatar]

Good luck becoming a success without schools, roads, or basic infrastructure!

And nobody else lives goes without schools, roads, and basic infrastructure either. How exactly is that an argument for excessive taxation of successful people?

Also, if you think all (or even the majority) of your tax dollars go towards those type of things, you are deluded.

not "every single one of your dollars" is taxed.

Really? My paychecks are taxed. My purchases are taxed. The interest I earn from my bank account is taxed. Your own private sales of your personal items are even technically supposed to be taxed, but I guess the IRS has better things to do than go after anyone who has ever held a garage sale.

[Charge me Doctor]

And nobody else lives goes without schools, roads, and basic infrastructure either. How exactly is that an argument for excessive taxation of successful people?

Also, if you think all (or even the majority) of your tax dollars go towards those type of things, you are deluded.



Really? My paychecks are taxed. My purchases are taxed. The interest I earn from my bank account is taxed. Your own private sales of your personal items are even technically supposed to be taxed, but I guess the IRS has better things to do than go after anyone who has ever held a garage sale.

Well, i know that in my country, not all income is taxed, but i don't know about others. So i googled it:
Income That Isn't Taxed
1. Disability Insurance Payments
2. Employer-Provided Insurance
3. Gift Giving of Up-to $13,000; Gift Receipt of Any Amount
4. Life Insurance Payouts
5. Sale of Principal Residence
6. Up to $3,000 of Income Offset by Capital Losses
7. Income Earned in Nine States
8. Corporate Income Earned In Five States
9. Inheritance
10. Municipal Bond Interest

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...#axzz2K0HS0uLC

[Vyxn]

OR, you can think of it this way, everyone should pay 39.6% in taxes, but the government realizes that no one can survive off of minimum wage and gives those ppl a break, cause really, if you make less than 10k a year you prolly eat ramen noodles for breakfast lunch and dinner, so they only asks for 10%, then gradually increases it to the normal lvl at different monetary points where ppl can handle it. (because clearly this is a better idea than raising minimum wage...)

so really we arnt punishing the successful, we are just making things better for the less fortunate, if you want to say that ALL taxes should be lower, however, you might have an argument, but i kinda like having an infrastructure

you cant multiply wealth by dividing it
you cant make two people wealthy by taking from the one who already is and giving it to the one that is not
all you do is eliminate incentive from both

[Charge me Doctor]

you cant multiply wealth by dividing it
you cant make two people wealthy by taking from the one who already is and giving it to the one that is not
all you do is eliminate incentive from both

How do taxes take incentive from someone? If you make more money, even after paying taxes you have more money than you had before.

[Sarthan]

Because it is done in percents

[Charge me Doctor]

Because it is done in percents

Exactly, there is no way to get less income from getting more income, if you had 200.000$ per year and you payed 20%, would you feel frustrated if you got promoted and got your income to 350.000$ per year with 24% tax?

You can imagine it like taxes are smoothing wage growth, without them it would grow like geometric progression.

[obdigore]

Exactly, there is no way to get less income from getting more income, if you had 200.000$ per year and you payed 20%, would you feel frustrated if you got promoted and got your income to 350.000$ per year with 24% tax?

You can imagine it like taxes are smoothing wage growth, without them it would grow like geometric progression

Except if the rate for 200k per year is 20%, that is what you are taxed on that first 200k. That 24% is only the rate on the 201k-350k.

[loki504]

it would be nice to add the countery your in. but in the netherlands overtime hours(above 40 hours a week) are taxed more then regular hours. that is why he pays more tax.
but also remember that some bosses pay to much tax for you. so at the end you can get a refund from the tax company.

[Charge me Doctor]

Except if the rate for 200k per year is 20%, that is what you are taxed on that first 200k. That 24% is only the rate on the 201k-350k.

Ok, looks like i have to google this again. And even if you have got your wage doubled, you are in profit. there is no way to get less money if you are getting higher wage.

[obdigore]

Ok, looks like i have to google this again. And even if you have got your wage doubled, you are in profit. there is no way to get less money if you are getting higher wage.

I'm not disputing you, I'm saying that the guy who makes 40k pays the same rate on that 40k as a the guy makes 300k pays on that first 40k. Assuming both sources are personal income and not, say, capital gains or gifts.

[loki504]

Ok so you get basically get taxed with anything you do in life.
you work - get taxed from your paycheck
drive a car- tax from registration fees
Drink alcohol or smoke ciggarettes - theres a tax on that
Win the lottery- get taxed for it
Open a business - get taxed for it
Sell your home - Capital gains tax
Give away some money over 10000- get taxed for it
theres heaps more but cant think of it right now

and all those taxes are suppose to pay for things like hospitals and roads and schools for your children
but wait a minute those things arent free..
want to drive on the road you pay registration fees and road tolls. want to go into hospital your paying fees
and then you have to pay school fees
so basically your getting screwed out of everything you do and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it.
were slaves basically working for the government
but people like to think we are free when in reality we arent

are you really that narrow minded?

ofc we are free. does the goverment holds you as a hostage? no they don't. don't want to pay the tax? fine go ahead. if you live in box under a random bridge the goverment won't find you.

and dispite of all fees you pay for school/hospital/road toll. they still need the income from taxes. but lets be honest its not as bad as you make out of it.
because what happen if you lost your job? indeed the goverment help you out.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm not disputing you, I'm saying that the guy who makes 40k pays the same rate on that 40k as a the guy makes 300k pays on that first 40k. Assuming both sources are personal income and not, say, capital gains or gifts.

I understand, but i made a mistake when wrote example because didn't used actual tax brackets.

But, actually, there is a chance that you will get less money from increased wage (but i doubt anyone can make that mistake when actual money are involved)
if you look at tax brackets, and count tax for 399.999 per year and 400.001 per year, you will get 259999,35 against 241600,60.

[loki504]

I'm not disputing you, I'm saying that the guy who makes 40k pays the same rate on that 40k as a the guy makes 300k pays on that first 40k. Assuming both sources are personal income and not, say, capital gains or gifts.

well dunno what countery you from. but in the netherlands its diffrent(numbers made up)

person A 100k = 20% tax
person B 200k = 30% tax
person C 300k = 40% tax.

person A would pay 20% over 100k
person B would pay 30% over 200K and not 20% over 100k and then 30% over the other 100k
person C would pay 40% over 300k. and not 20% over the first 100k then 30% over another 100% and then 40% over another 100k

[Wells]

Yeah unless your income is coming in in a really weird way, there's no way to get a raise and make less money over all due to taxes.

There's just a lot of flat ignorance among the anti tax crowd.

[loki504]

I understand, but i made a mistake when wrote example because didn't used actual tax brackets.

But, actually, there is a chance that you will get less money from increased wage (but i doubt anyone can make that mistake when actual money are involved)
if you look at tax brackets, and count tax for 399.999 per year and 400.001 per year, you will get 259999,35 against 241600,60.

true. but atleast the dutch goverment also give back at the % of your taxed income. lets lets say i payed 9k interest over my mortgage. then if i payed 30% taxed i will get 30% of 9k back. but if i payed 60% tax i will get 60% of the 9k back.(but they are changing it slowly atm in the netherlands)

[obdigore]

well dunno what countery you from. but in the netherlands its diffrent(numbers made up)

person A 100k = 20% tax
person B 200k = 30% tax
person C 300k = 40% tax.

person A would pay 20% over 100k
person B would pay 30% over 200K and not 20% over 100k and then 30% over the other 100k
person C would pay 40% over 300k. and not 20% over the first 100k then 30% over another 100% and then 40% over another 100k

I'm in the US.

Person A makes 100k and has 20% tax on that.
Person B makes 200k, that person pays the same 20% on the first 100k then 30% on the next 100k.
Person C makes 300k, they pay 20% on the first 100k, 30% on the second 100k, then 40% on the third.

And, I just looked at the Wiki entry for Income Tax in the Netherlands, and it is the exact same way.

For 2010, income tax for persons under 65 is as follows:

For the part of income up to € 18,218: 2.3%; tax on €18,218 is €419
For the part of income between €18,219 and €32,738: 10.8%; tax on €14,520 is €1,568
For the part of income between €32,739 and €54,367: 42%; tax on €21,629 is €9,084
On all income over €54,367: 52%

[Charge me Doctor]

true. but atleast the dutch goverment also give back at the % of your taxed income. lets lets say i payed 9k interest over my mortgage. then if i payed 30% taxed i will get 30% of 9k back. but if i payed 60% tax i will get 60% of the 9k back.(but they are changing it slowly atm in the netherlands)

I heard that you can get a little boost from taxed money when you buy an apartment in russia

[loki504]

I'm in the US.

Person A makes 100k and has 20% tax on that.
Person B makes 200k, that person pays the same 20% on the first 100k then 30% on the next 100k.
Person C makes 300k, they pay 20% on the first 100k, 30% on the second 100k, then 40% on the third.

And, I just looked at the Wiki entry for Income Tax in the Netherlands, and it is the exact same way.

humz looked it up to. me feel kinda stupid.......