Those who Claim People in the Military are Fighting for our Freedom/Defending Us

[Korgoth]

If you believe Republican propaganda. Hydraulic fracturing and Canadas oil-sands bonanza is not the solution. It's more a sign how desperate we became to get the last drops of oil. Both technologies will ruin the environment and pollute the freshwater.

It seems like most of the world believes it. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91204Z20130203

Here we have the leftist equivalent of the Global Warming Denying, Evolution condemning, Birther.

[Hiricine]

People should fear Canada. It's a Canadian sniper that holds the world record for longest kill shot. That's enough to keep me scared.

As competent as I'm sure Canada is, its a relatively small country as a first world country (35th, also least densely populated).

But with few exceptions, wars (though not battles, necessarily) are won by whatever side had more people.

[Deleted]

Pacifism doesnt work. Simple as that.

This post may seem a bit crude an uninformed at first glance, but if you look at the pixels you'll see that it was damaged in transit. Using CSI software I've been able to enhance the post to its entirety.

Pacifism doesnt work as the end-all be-all solution for all states in all situations, especially if you have a foreign policy that can be summed up as "Meh, we got the bigger army as well as nukes, who cares what they think?". Now I know that it's not as Simple as that, but I feel that it would be pointless for me to elaborate the point as my internet connection's not that good and a lot of my posts get damaged in transit.

[Kathandira]

They do expect respect and they all have earned at least that much.

But why? I did not ask them to fight some other countries war. They are not standing on our shores fighting off battleships coming to invade the U.S.

I'm not sure what our military has done in the past 31 years that I have been alive that truly benefits the citizens of the U.S.

Should I respect their kill count? Their tenaciousness surviving the brutal sun over in the middle east?

We have very little authority fighting any where in the middle east. It was not our war.

[bewbew]

It's not worship. They deserve your respect. Nothing more. They do not deserve criticism for the governments actions or decisions. They do not deserve the hate that they receive when they come home.

It IS worship.

Definition -
2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion.

You are not judging actions, but a career choice. You are completly ignoring the fact that armies (and thus SOLDIERS) have been told to do downright evil stuff in the past, in the present and will continue to do so in the future, and since their JOB is to comply to these orders, they will simply do it. That is illogical. It's full of the very archaic tradition of exalting the deeds of any kind of combatant figure, and it simply does not fit with the real world.

There are some that are going to be entitled douche bags, can't do anything about that. Putting out blanket statements such as:

They have no other option.
They are ignorant.
They're in it for the money

etc. etc.

Never said that.

These are all foolish statements to be putting on a group as a whole. Most of the men and women that I served with don't want your thanks (not that they wouldn't appreciate it, that's not why they joined). They don't care that you put a bumper sticker on your vehicle. They don't want preferential treatment. They do expect respect and they all have earned at least that much.

By doing...?

If you can do that then I have no issues with you. You're entitled to your opinions on our foreign policy and whatever else we can agree or disagree on.

If you can't then imo you can get bent.

A soldier, based on their career choice, deserves as much respect as any other person in the planet. If he them proceeds to do something worthy of more respect, kudos. If not, well, too bad.

That wasn't even my point, anyway. My point was that this whole argument of "Hate the order, not the soldier" is stupid.

They can be ordered to do downright bad stuff, and taking responsibility away from them and putting it into whoever is giving them orders is dumb. They are both equally responsible. Are nazi german soldiers any less responsible for the Holocaust? They were honorable, duty bound men following orders of their state.

Following orders "for your country" is not all black and white.

[Spoiler]

I would like to thank the people of the US military for fighting for our freedom and defending our country.

If you have a problem with this statement, then I hope you do "die a little inside" and "punch a hole in the wall with your head." While you may disagree with the politics behind military action, the men and women who put their lives in danger for our safety deserve our respect. What many of you seem to not understand is that someone will wear the uniform of the US military, and because they wear it you don't have to.

[Deleted]

I won't respect someone because he demans it.

A person who demands respect for him being the person he is, thats pretty delusional, this person will never recieve respect from anyone.

Soldiers recieve the respect for being who they are, for the person they present to others, like _every_ other person on planet earth. If someone is a decent person, respectful, doing his duty, his job. Thats something that should be respected.

[Purlina]

I would like to thank the people of the US military for fighting for our freedom and defending our country.

I have no problem with that.

But soldiers fight for our country, it does not have to be for freedom or for defense. That is up to the government....

[Kathandira]

I would like to thank the people of the US military for fighting for our freedom and defending our country.

If you have a problem with this statement, then I hope you do "die a little inside" and "punch a hole in the wall with your head." While you may disagree with the politics behind military action, the men and women who put their lives in danger for our safety deserve our respect. What many of you seem to not understand is that someone will wear the uniform of the US military, and because they wear it you don't have to.

31 years going strong with no need to wear an military uniform nor own a weapon. Know why? No one is attacking the U.S.

Gonna get a lot of hate for this one, but..The only time we were attacked in my life time was when the twin towers were hit. But that was our fault. We butted our noses into a war that was not ours, we stabbed an ally in the back and took the side of the runt for the sake of politics. They attacked in retaliation. Call it terrorism if you will, I call it pay back. Should have taught people to mind their own business and not interfere with the politics of other nations. Instead of imposing our 'Merica ways on countries who are completely culturally different.

We are not the world police, it was not our job to "defend our country" by attacking theirs when we were never threatened to begin with.

If you joined the military to defend 'Merica by going over seas to fight, you do not get my respect. You are sheep who is buying into political bullshit.

[Aeka]

What are your thoughts on these people? Every time I hear someone talk about the military and how thankful they are for them for fighting for our freedom and defending our country, I just die a little inside, and seriously want to punch a hole in the wall with my head. No they are not fighting for our freedom, and no they are not defending our country. No country in the Middle East is a serious threat to the United States. Their response: "But we're over there to combat terrorism". Wake the fuck up, terrorists are everywhere. That guy that shot a bunch of kids in that Sandy Hook elementary school, terrorist. That guy that shot all those people in that movie theater in Colorado, terrorist. That guy that shot a crap ton of people in Norway, terrorist. You can not go to a specific part of the world in hopes of combating an idea. It's simply propaganda.

The only time they are defending us is if our country is in danger like when Japan bombed the shit out of Pearl Harbor in WW2.

There is a vast difference between isolated murderous lunatics and organized terrorism. That you fail to see the difference is a tragedy that has afflicted mankind for ages. Read about the appeasement movement in the 1930s for some perspective.

[Roose]

While you may disagree with the politics behind military action, the men and women who put their lives in danger for our safety deserve our respect. What many of you seem to not understand is that someone will wear the uniform of the US military, and because they wear it you don't have to.

That is not true. Why do we NEED to fight any of these bullshit manufactured wars? People were forced to go to Vietnam, but not the middle east.

See what happens if they tried to institute a draft again. These soldiers today fight because they choose to. They should be well aware that we have not had a legitimate war since Korea.

Nobody is making any of the soldiers do what they are doing. It is all by choice. Such a load of crap that they are fighting so that I do not have to. I have no issues with brown people.

[Aeka]

31 years going strong with no need to wear an military uniform nor own a weapon. Know why? No one is attacking the U.S.

Gonna get a lot of hate for this one, but..The only time we were attacked in my life time was when the twin towers were hit. But that was our fault. We butted our noses into a war that was not ours, we stabbed an ally in the back and took the side of the runt for the sake of politics. They attacked in retaliation. Call it terrorism if you will, I call it pay back. Should have taught people to mind their own business and not interfere with the politics of other nations. Instead of imposing our 'Merica ways on countries who are completely culturally different.

We are not the world police, it was not our job to "defend our country" by attacking theirs when we were never threatened to begin with.

If you joined the military to defend 'Merica by going over seas to fight, you do not get my respect. You are sheep who is buying into political bullshit.

Which makes your last sentence wonder what you're buying into. What ally did we stab in the back? None. Your version isn't history, and quite wrong.

---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 02:05 PM ----------

That is not true. Why do we NEED to fight any of these bullshit manufactured wars? People were forced to go to Vietnam, but not the middle east.

See what happens if they tried to institute a draft again. These soldiers today fight because they choose to. They should be well aware that we have not had a legitimate war since Korea.

Nobody is making any of the soldiers do what they are doing. It is all by choice. Such a load of crap that they are fighting so that I do not have to. I have no issues with brown people.

There are plenty who have issues with you.

And the first Persian Gulf War was a just war of liberation.

[Purlina]

Which makes your last sentence wonder what you're buying into. What ally did we stab in the back? None. Your version isn't history, and quite wrong.

Oh we have betrayed or left many of our allies out to dry...

We have put people into power, then when they don't suit our interests we treat them as enemies.

[King Shark]

31 years going strong with no need to wear an military uniform nor own a weapon. Know why? No one is attacking the U.S.

Gonna get a lot of hate for this one, but..The only time we were attacked in my life time was when the twin towers were hit. But that was our fault. We butted our noses into a war that was not ours, we stabbed an ally in the back and took the side of the runt for the sake of politics. They attacked in retaliation. Call it terrorism if you will, I call it pay back. Should have taught people to mind their own business and not interfere with the politics of other nations. Instead of imposing our 'Merica ways on countries who are completely culturally different.

We are not the world police, it was not our job to "defend our country" by attacking theirs when we were never threatened to begin with.

If you joined the military to defend 'Merica by going over seas to fight, you do not get my respect. You are sheep who is buying into political bullshit.

"They?" "They" being who? Because it seems like you are inferring that we being attacked by an organization that is officially recognized as a radical terrorist organization, by everyone that isn't a radical terrorist organization, was justified and in fact fully supported by a recognized sovereign government. So, I'd like you to clarify a bit further. Because then, by your logic, 9/11 was an act of war, making our response completely justified as well. And so a lot of opinions being thrown around in this whole thread would be completely moot. Going by your logic, of course.

[Spoiler]

That is not true. Why do we NEED to fight any of these bullshit manufactured wars? People were forced to go to Vietnam, but not the middle east.

See what happens if they tried to institute a draft again. These soldiers today fight because they choose to. They should be well aware that we have not had a legitimate war since Korea.

Nobody is making any of the soldiers do what they are doing. It is all by choice. Such a load of crap that they are fighting so that I do not have to. I have no issues with brown people.

And if they didn't choose to serve we would be forced to like in Vietman. Do you not understand this? If there were not enough volunteers they would re-institute the draft. The wars will be fought and the fact that they didn't force you should give cause to respect those who did fight on your behalf.

[Arewn]

They deserve the same respect as anyone else...

If I see a soldier there is no reason why I should treat him better then the buss driver or postal worker, unless I know for sure he did something fantastic.

My thoughts exactly.
There's a higher chance a soldier did something fantastic and respect worthy then those from most other jobs, but unless that's been made known there's no reason to treat them any better (or worse) then others. They do not automatically get reverance because of their job choice.
I know, have met, and have seen enough soldiers to know that they are not automatically honorable individuals who fight for their country just because they are in the military (that's not to say they are bad either of course). They go for personal reasons, often because it's a very readily available means of getting a decent pay.

[Deleted]

Huh? Tell Switzerland and Canada....

I saw Canadian troops in Afghanistan.

[Wildtree]

Hmmmmm...... Stuff isn't black and white only. There are countless shades of grey in between.

Let's look at the two starting points...

Despise any military action, refuse to give any credit, or respect to soldiers = Black
Glorify, and lift soldiers above all else as saviors and super heroes, while they fight abroad without being attacked on home ground = White.

Both approaches are just flat out wrong.
I am a pacifist, I admit that. I will never wear a uniform. But this is my own personal decision for myself. I show respect where respect is due. I question and criticize where it's needed. My respect adjusts accordingly. I give more to soldiers who had no choice. Armies which are entirely made up by volunteers don't get that much. Because they chose that job. Their respect isn't any more deserved than the one for a nurse, a cop, a fireman, and the hell even the trash man, that comes and gets your garbage. The danger in the various jobs vary, yet it was the persons free choice.
Especially when you enter an army like the one from the USA in these times. It's safe to say that the chance for you, that you will end up in a combat situation is very high. Now on the contrary, let's say some guy from Switzerland joins the army, and ends up in combat. Then we have a case, where we can support that guy with all heart and emotion. He never expected to have to fight abroad. He never had to expect such. The risk was in favor of a peaceful service.

I do however not buy that easily into the "defending the country, and fighting for our freedom" reason. Especially not, if there is not a single enemy in sight with the capability to seriously attack you on your own turf..
I strongly believe that it's sole reason is big business. Take it for what it's worth, but those arms cost a shitload of money. Every war blows millions, if not billions out of the window. There is high interest in using those arms to make new arms. And the bigger the war, the more benefit for the population actually.. All in all, there are millions of jobs involved.
If you want to defend yourself rather properly, then it may as well be by starting to become likeable. I don't know. But no one really wants to attack Switzerland, or Liechtenstein. They pose no threat in the first place, and they don't piss anyone off on purpose. Or take Russia.. I am not aware that they are such a target nowadays anymore. They used to, while it's been the USSR.. Those days are gone, Russia managed to restore a reputation, one way or another.
Let's ignore Putin for now, since he's a douche bag against his own people. But for foreign relationships, all so called super powers manage to stay below the radar, unless they are too US friendly. The USA is the only super power that managed to piss off half the planet, ever since the Soviet Regime fell.
This does indicate that the USA's foreign policy fails, it fails because you cannot make policy with arms.
And to be precise. It would not fly with the US population either, but the media in the USA keeps that topic under the carpet.
If the message the population gets would be" They are pissed at us, because we constantly screw around with our armies all over the place" then the population would say STOP the military bullshit... Americans are after all not that different.. They too love peace and freedom.
Freedom is only secured if you don't have to worry about military actions against you.
It's just like in civil life. If you go around and randomly punch guys in the face, chances are that at some point the gang up against you, and beat the living shit out of you.... Same principle.
I mean, it is one thing if random people here and there see you as a bully. It's another thing if almost the entire planet see's you as that.
A smart person would start to think about that.

[Fenixdown]

So Pearl Harbor was a threat, but I take it 9/11 wasn't?

Lolwut?

While I will agree that some wars are more politically driven than nationally (Vietnam and Korean are very big examples of this), to state that the soldiers who lay their lives on the line do not fight for our freedoms is going way overboard. Either way, no matter what the circumstance of the war in question that our national forces are fighting, they are doing so VOLUNTARILY. Tell me, would you be willing to lay your life on the line to protect your country and your beliefs?

I didn't think so. That's why I respect our troops and our veterans. They made a choice that millions of us did not and would not make. They choose to risk the possibility of death for a nation they swear to protect, whether it be against terrorism, communism, socialism, or any other isms.

Think about that one a moment.

[Purlina]

They made a choice that millions of us did not and would not make. They choose to risk the possibility of death for a nation they swear to protect, whether it be against terrorism, communism, socialism, or any other isms.

Think about that one a moment.

LOL? Why would I need someone to protect me against communism or socialism?


I defiantly would not want anyone to die because they thought they where protecting me from socialism...