Heroic Sha 10 Rogue spec

[Bonesjackson]

Grp make up:

Tanks: DK Druid
Heals: Shaman Paladin
DPS: Paladin Mage Warlock Shadow Priest Survival Hunter Rogue

Whats the best spec for this to get that extra umph.....?

[Deleted]

As far as I know, Assassination has a pretty big leg up on that fight. Multi-dotting adds on main platform and in P2, along with better single target damage on Sha. In terms of buffs and debuffs your comp is covered either way.

[Deleted]

Go assa. At 10-25% with 5-7 adds up, it's clear winner in this raid setup.

[Deleted]

Assa, except if you have a better fist weapon than dagger.

[Bromosapien]

I play assassin in our 25 man but I dont think the raid size matters in this aspect anyways...I tend to FoK ever 10 seconds or so to throw deadly on adds when there are less than 5-6 adds, and using a 5 pt redirect rupture on adds as they come in every other set. At 5-6 adds just spam fok keeping rupture up and 1 pt enven for SnD. Can also dispatch a ton since hes at <35% a long time (do this when adds are at <35-40% before submurge imo).

[SnuggleSmuggle]

I play as combat due to our overall aoe damage not being high enough, but you're makeup/raid may be different or unable to put out the aoe numbers of our strong aoe (we do run a warrior). The ability to have a cd up for each set of adds (KS/AR/SB) is very nice, where vendetta doesn't even effect the adds efficiently. Also for 10 man the less adds further improves the output of combat. The only time I would say to go Ass. would be if your group is struggling with the enrage timer and needs more boss damage.

[SilentSneakz]

I play as combat due to our overall aoe damage not being high enough, but you're makeup/raid may be different or unable to put out the aoe numbers of our strong aoe (we do run a warrior). The ability to have a cd up for each set of adds (KS/AR/SB) is very nice, where vendetta doesn't even effect the adds efficiently. Also for 10 man the less adds further improves the output of combat. The only time I would say to go Ass. would be if your group is struggling with the enrage timer and needs more boss damage.

^^ This.

Combat actually puts out more damage to the adds in 10 man as they pile up slower you don't get quite as many as fast, and they have less health (less time for poison to tick) not to mention the advantages of cd's actually effecting your add damage. If you're group is having little trouble keeping adds dead then go Ass. for higher boss damage, but if adds are the problem, in 10, stay combat and stagger your cooldowns for each set of adds like snuggle is saying.

[Deleted]

I find the whole Combat suggestion rather awkward. Whether it's 1 or 20 adds, you can just poison them as they come along. When it's time for the melee to switch off there will be 5+ of them alive and Assassination still has the edge. If your group is lacking AoE damage I'd say that's most likely because you are Combat and not Assassination. Cleaving 2 adds down while everyone is AoEing isn't going to help the group, as the group will still be AoEing to finish off the last few. In this case it's much more efficient to spread the damage around as even as possible.

Then again, I killed him on a Hunter in 25 man. But I'm just not seeing it.

[SilentSneakz]

In our kills we have the melee switching first, not waiting till 5+ adds. This actually lets me, the combat rogue, do the majority of the damage to the first 2 sets with just BF. This lets the rest of the group really focus on boss damage early and throughout the first Heroism. If it was strictly 5+ adds then yes Ass. makes more sense, but it all depends on how your group is peeling people off for adds and when they are peeling. Combat lets you not have to peel as many people quite as early effectively increasing raid boss damage.

The other benefit is ensuring crippling poison is on all the adds with the blade flurry glyph assuming your warlock isn't responsible for the snares? I'd imagine you would want the higher output aoe class (the lock) focusing on dps and not on snares. But thats just my opinion

[Squirl]

You should not be Combat on this fight.

Unless you have a really weird group, you (as a rogue) shouldn't really touch the early adds. My group has an aff lock, a boomkin, and a shadow priest. The adds get multidotted and are almost dead by the time submerge happens. Once Sha is submerged, I just throw out a few low CP Ruptures to get the energy return when they die, then I'm back on the boss. If the adds die before submerge, you are wasting uptime.

Even without that many multidotters, the early adds are so easy to kill in time that the extra damage from BF is meaningless. It's the later adds that matter, and Assassination pushes much better DPS on more targets. I don't even touch adds for the most part until 4 are out. 4 adds + the boss is 5 targets. Assassination pushes much better dps with 5 targets than combat does. Assassination also pushes better single target damage, which is important unless you want waves of 7 or 8 adds. Also, if you're killing an add way faster than the others (with BF), that reduces the efficiency of your entire raid's AoE.

The whole thing with adds not getting grouped up is the fault of the people juggling the ball, not an inherent mechanic of the fight. They are throwing the ball too early, too many times, or to the wrong people. We have no issues getting the adds in and grouped quickly.

[SnuggleSmuggle]

Yes there are a few valid points in there, but it really depends on how/when you have people switching to adds and who/if your group can aoe well while keeping them grouped well. If they cannot, then even the 3+ groups of adds can become a problem and combat actually helps to cover some of that slack early on. If you're in a more controlled group with top notch AOE and adds grouped quickly with little problem then I can see assasination maybe taking a dps edge. If you check top parses the damage difference is very small and combat only comes out behind by less than 1k dps in most cases with a lot more utility.

[Deleted]

In our kills we have the melee switching first, not waiting till 5+ adds. This actually lets me, the combat rogue, do the majority of the damage to the first 2 sets with just BF. This lets the rest of the group really focus on boss damage early and throughout the first Heroism.

Wait wait wait,
You guys have your melee running around after (initially) spread out adds so your ranged can focus on killing a stationary boss? Wouldn't it make much more sense for the melee DPS to make good use of that heroism while the ranged dot up the adds and continue on the boss?

The initial few adds should die from multidotters and cleaves. As long as the people with the buff manage it correctly and pingpong the buff around it shouldn't really be an issue if those first few adds don't die straight away. It's near the end where problems arise and large amounts need to be killed quickly before the pingpong players get overrun.

[Bonesjackson]

Thank you, originally I thought assassination would be the best,but then due to some of the points stated earlier and applying the slow I've been using combat,our hunter does a ton of damage to the adds so I could probably afford to switch and not worry as much about the earlier adds . Gonna try the switch to assassination tonight and hopefully it can help us get through that last cpl percent.

[eijin]

Of course if you have a better fist thats that, but the fight is mostly single target, then switches to AoE (you very likely wouldnt be switching to an add when there is just 1 or 2. multi DoTing kills those quickly anyway), both areas mutilate excels in.

[Deleted]

What about sub? jk.

[Mersynd]

Every group and Rogue will have a different perspective of the fight, and different strategies. I tried Combat and it just really didn't feel right for the fight. I AoE plenty towards the 4 adds mark and if you're putting Rupture on everything your energy will feel just like Combat. On 10 man the focus is more on the boss than the adds, and having the higher single target damage is a lot better. I'm also the one in my group where my slow does not change or nerf my damage, where as other classes have to spend resources and GCDs to do it while they're compromising their positioning.
I'm currently uploading our Sha kill from my PoV if anyone is interested to view it once it has completed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqmnZnj87vA

[Squirl]

What about sub? jk.

Subt is viable if you have the gear. It would be the best if CT still double dipped mastery.

[Mersynd]

Subt is viable if you have the gear. It would be the best if CT still double dipped mastery.

Mastery build + 5.2 CT would be crazy for this fight.

[Deleted]

Mastery build + 5.2 CT would be crazy for this fight.

Pretty sure CT is unchanged. The thing mentioned in the patchnotes before was merely a tooltip correction, the buff already went live in Cataclysm.

[Deleted]

Subt is viable if you have the gear. It would be the best if CT still double dipped mastery.

It's somewhat okay, but this is one of the encounters where Sub really performs lower than Assa/Combat.