Whats the problem with garrosh?

[babo7000]

I don't have any facts wrong at all.
We're talking about Garrosh here, not Orcs in general.
Durotar is a polluted cesspit, a watershed that can't be used to water crops or even drink because the goblins ruined it = polluted cesspit (and one of the reasons garrosh invaded Night Elf land)
I'm aware Thrall took part in aiding the Echo Isles rebellion, that has dick to do with the events of Cataclysm
And who was all on the same boat? Night Elves didn't invaded Durotar... Orcs, at large, have even less respect for Night Elves than they do humans. Thrall told them such hatred was unfounded and wrong, Garrosh capitalised upon it to the point where Orcish generals murdering schools full of Night Elf children was construed as "acting on his command".

---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 01:17 AM ----------

You do realise that storywise the Orcs lost Ashenvale, got nowhere in the Barrens and the nuking of Theramore only resulted in a new, more heavily fortified *Northwatch* right on Orgrimmar's doorstep? The Horde's advances were repelled and defeated all over Kalimdor. Only the Forsaken have held their holdings, which was pretty much only Lordaeron.

Trust me, I hate Garrosh as much as the next guy, but we can't argue that he has made more gains then losses (pre MoP). Ashenvale has still seen Horde progress (though it will never be taken, not for gameplay reasons but story, the Alliance and Nelves would never allow it). Barrens is a win for none, and Theramore was still a victory, it removed a vital port from Kalimdor.

Then theres Azshara, as well az Northern Lordaeron, in which he commanded the Forsaken to move on the offensive

[Justignoreme]

I read this: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/04/kn...scream-part-1/ and part 2 on WoW Insider and feel that Garrosh is a bit misunderstood. I like him. And I feel sorry for him.

He's not misunderstood. He's very easy to understand. What you have to accept is that people understanding him aren't going to condone him just cause they understand him. There's no misconceptions at all.

[mistuhbull]

Even in war there are lines that arn't crossed.

Garrosh hasn't just crossed those lines, he's bridged it with the bodies of both Horde and Alliance, and then danced Gangnam style on top of them.

Crossing the lines...such as?

[Trassk]

God I'll be glad when Garrosh is dead and the story can begin to progress again after the last few years of it degrading down to a sandbox game of kick the castle over.

[UnknownShadows00]

I'm honestly going to miss Garrosh - at least, Pre-MoP Garrosh. His character had so much potential, but the writers kept flinging him from one direction to another so rapidly, you never knew what the hell Garrosh was gonna do next. Which was quite enjoyable for some time, but eventually they could have had him settle down and become a General or some sort (not Warchief...)

I still think it would have been a good idea for them to have made Saurfang the Younger the Warchief in time. He seemed to be a lot more controlling of his nature, and was the straight kin of Saurfang himself, and you know that means he would have been a tremendous fighter and leader based on that. Oh well...

[Trassk]

Crossing the lines...such as?

don't start, you know dam well what they are, its been quoted in countless threads you have tried repeatedly to debunk because you fail to accept facts about it.

[babo7000]

God I'll be glad when Garrosh is dead and the story can begin to progress again after the last few years of it degrading down to a sandbox game of kick the castle over.

Ill miss him. Though hes starting to become the villain stereotype, ive never seen H/A players argue more than they have since Garrosh came in.

[Justignoreme]

Trust me, I hate Garrosh as much as the next guy, but we can't argue that he has made more gains then losses (pre MoP). Ashenvale has still seen Horde progress (though it will never be taken, not for gameplay reasons but story, the Alliance and Nelves would never allow it).

the Alliance quest arc undoes everything the Horde arc did. From destroying the assault on Astranaar (which is where the Horde story ends) to destroying the Warsong Lumbercamp itself. Blizz should've done phasing to demonstrate this however if they had there would literally be 0 Alliance/Horde player interaction in the entire zone if they placed phasing in because the timelines are very much before/after.

Barrens is a win for none, and Theramore was still a victory, it removed a vital port from Kalimdor.

You destroy one port and replace it with another port, even closer to your capital. How exactly is that a victory? Not to mention his actions put a crack in the Horde's unity that continues to grow wider and wider. All Garrosh did was succeed in killing a lot of defenders in Theramore.

Then there's Azshara, as well az Northern Lordaeron, in which he commanded the Forsaken to move on the offensive

He commanded them into Gilneas. Which was not won. The rest of Lordaeron was a Forsaken only initiative. Azshara was a Night Elf offensive that was rebuffed.

[Trassk]

Ill miss him. Though hes starting to become the villain stereotype, ive never seen H/A players argue more than they have since Garrosh came in.

All I see in these arguments are kids fighting over ridiculous reasons and daddy issues of 'my daddy could beat up your daddy', its degrading to what was what a great story with a lot of potential.

[mistuhbull]

don't start, you know dam well what they are, its been quoted in countless threads you have tried repeatedly to debunk because you fail to accept facts about it.

No. Nobody has actually pointed out any damn lines he has crossed. 99% of the hate towards Garrosh is because he is mean. Well guess what? Being mean is not a war crime. Nothing Garrosh has done crosses any real moral lines

Theramore? Was launching invasions into the Barrens and Durotar as well as supplying and assisting the other Alliance forces in Kalimdor.
Vol'jin? You mean the man who has on multiple occasions expressed his distaste for his Warchief as well as threatening to kill him. I'd say Vol'jin is lucky it took so long for Garrosh to act against him.

The only event, with a real attempt at being Garrosh "crossing a line" is the invasion of Gilneas, which (surprise, surprise) is seldom (almost never) invoked as a reason Garrosh is bad

[Justignoreme]

All I see in these arguments are kids fighting over ridiculous reasons and daddy issues of 'my daddy could beat up your daddy', its degrading to what was what a great story with a lot of potential.

It's not even Horde and Alliance arguing it's Horde and Horde arguing Lol

[Trassk]

It's not even Horde and Alliance arguing it's Horde and Horde arguing Lol

thats pretty much it. And sad thing is theres not horde pride anymore since this whole debate has rifted things for the last several years.

At least the alliance gets to have some form of pride in how they band together with a common goal.

[Justignoreme]

No. Nobody has actually pointed out any damn lines he has crossed. 99% of the hate towards Garrosh is because he is mean. Well guess what? Being mean is not a war crime. Nothing Garrosh has done crosses any real moral lines

Drafting a "Final Solution" to deal with people whom won't let you enslave them and steal/destroy their land isn't crossing a moral line? Okay.

Funny arguing with your types cause you will jump all over Garithos' for being "mean" and calling blood elves bad names (and ignoring the fact he only took action against them when they openly sided with the Naga), but Garrosh wanting to enslave and now commit genocide against his enemies outright is just skippy.

[Deleted]

He's too mad, always looking for more power.

[Zylos]

Garrosh is an orc's orc. Thrall was a wimp, to him Lok'tar Ogar was just a battle cry, to Garrosh its a way of life. Long live Hellscream!

[Justignoreme]

thats pretty much it. And sad thing is theres not horde pride anymore since this whole debate has rifted things for the last several years.

At least the alliance gets to have some form of pride in how they band together with a common goal.

As poorly as that was done, Varian-Knows-Best is still a lot better (situationally) than openly insulting your allies, like telling Lor'themar "Did the scourge beat all the will to fight out of your people?"

[Trassk]

Drafting a "Final Solution" to deal with people whom won't let you enslave them and steal/destroy their land isn't crossing a moral line? Okay.

Funny arguing with your types cause you will jump all over Garithos' for being "mean" and calling blood elves bad names (and ignoring the fact he only took action against them when they openly sided with the Naga), but Garrosh wanting to enslave and now commit genocide against his enemies outright is just skippy.

I really wouldn't bother. Your going to just bounce back and forth with mistuhbull in this argument even if you present 100% evidence.

[Justignoreme]

Garrosh is an orc's orc. Thrall was a wimp, to him Lok'tar Ogar was just a battle cry, to Garrosh its a way of life. Long live Hellscream!

I guess you missed the part where only "Ogar" is happening to the Horde...

[mistuhbull]

Drafting a "Final Solution" to deal with people whom won't let you enslave them and steal/destroy their land isn't crossing a moral line? Okay.

Funny arguing with your types cause you will jump all over Garithos' for being "mean" and calling blood elves bad names (and ignoring the fact he only took action against them when they openly sided with the Naga), but Garrosh wanting to enslave and now commit genocide against his enemies outright is just skippy.

You mean like when the Alliance enslaved the Orcs following the Second War? And certain Alliance kingdoms called for their extermination?

Oh, and I said has done. He hasn't done that yet since (i'm assuming it's from 5.2) 5.2 hasn't hit live servers.

And it's not Garithos being mean. Nobody points at Garithos and goes "he's mean, he's a monster war criminal". They go "There's Garithos, he was a douche who tried to kill the Sin'dorei via Scourge, that's why the Sin'dorei distrust the Alliance."

See the difference?

[Justignoreme]

I really wouldn't bother. Your going to just bounce back and forth with mistuhbull in this argument even if you present 100% evidence.

ya, it's fine, I say what I need/want to say and if nonsense continues I just let it be.

---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 01:49 AM ----------

You mean like when the Alliance enslaved the Orcs following the Second War? And certain Alliance kingdoms called for their extermination?

You compare apples to oranges. Situations are completely different, actually.

Oh, and I said has done. He hasn't done that yet since (i'm assuming it's from 5.2) 5.2 hasn't hit live servers.

Attempts don't count? Okay

And it's not Garithos being mean. Nobody points at Garithos and goes "he's mean, he's a monster war criminal". They go "There's Garithos, he was a douche who tried to kill the Sin'dorei via Scourge, that's why the Sin'dorei distrust the Alliance."

No they don't they say "Because Garithos all of humanity is the most evil, vile race that ever walked upon Azeroth and they should all be slaughtered cause of how this one man treated the Blood Elves (and his treatment was more akin to a playground bully than anything else). And the daft Blood Elves seem to subscribe to it.

See the difference?

Ya, the difference is:
Orcs screaming into Ashenvale, murdering Night Elves, destroying their homes and sacred forests, drawing the ire of the rest of the Alliance and doing this entirely on the command of one person, Garrosh Hellscream, there exists a real and legitimate reason to dislike the guy. and JUST the guy, not every last Orc that ever lived though it's really hard not to want to glaive the heads off Garrosh's loyal followers.

Blood Elves want to hate every single human because of Garithos, fanbois forget he treated Dwarves just as bad as he treated the Blood Elves, he was a douche through and through and yet suddenly all of humanity are Garithos(es?) and that's just A-OK.