Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[xskarma]

Wish they'd let us buy LFR versions of these trinkets to test, like they do the Tier sets. That would allow us to theorycraft and test much more efficiently.

[Deleted]

I'm also not completly sure about the system. The formula GC posted was:

It can proc from any damage/healing event. It keeps track of the last time it had a chance to proc for that enchant. It calculates the difference in time since the last chance to proc. It uses that time to determine the chance for that event to trigger a proc. For example, if you have 22% Haste, it was 1.4sec since the last chance to proc, and you’ve got Windsong, then the chance to proc is 2(ppm) * 1.22(haste) * 1.4(time since last chance) / 60 (sec per min) = 5.693%

But for Jadespirit I normally observe that I get 2 proccs quite fast at the start of the fight and then nothing for a time. But I'm not quite sure what "Chance to proc" means. It should be something different than when it last procced right? So if you have a trinket which procs on spell dmg land and you only cast 3 sec casts and have 20% haste does it look like this:
2(ppm) * 1.3(haste)*3/60 = 13% for each cast?

[Bonkura]

Logged on to PTR and I was wrong about the 10s duration of BotH. They've indeed changed it 20s and the 0.5 RealPPM is correct as well. Must've been with the latest build added yesterday. I spent 10 minutes on a dummy and got procs at the following times: 3:24, 3:55, 4:56, 7:46 & 8:38 (= 5 procs in total). Used a rotation where I just kept dots up with SB:SS and channeling MG all the time.

Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance has 10s duration. Same int proc as BotH.. think I would be willing to take the passive crit to not have to live with the RNG from BotH.


Some rough estimations for Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen (inc fail napkin math, beware!):

Let's assume we're following the T14 heroic BiS profile with 17.60% raid buffed crit and we'll manage to refresh all dots with 25% extra time from Pandemic. That gives us 11.25 ticks of UA, 13.75 ticks of Corruption and 18.75 ticks of Agony.

UA trinket bonus crits for 19280*0.8240=15887, with all ticks it's 11.25*15887=178729 extra DPET per proc
Corruption trinket bonus crits for 17979*0.8240=14815, with all ticks it's 13.75*14815=203706 extra DPET per proc
Agony trinket bonus crits for 21304*0.8240=17555, with all ticks it's 18.75*17555=329156 extra DPET per proc
Fight length 450s = 3.75 procs per fight
178729*3.75=670234 bonus damage from UA w/ crit trinket procs
203706*3.75=763898 bonus damage from Corruption w/ crit trinket procs
329156*3.75=1234335 bonus damage from Agony w/ crit trinket procs
670234+763898+1234335=2668467 total bonus damage from Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen
T14 BiS profile does 132154 DPS. 132154*450=59469300 total damage during a 450s fight
2668467/59469300=0.04487 (the total trinket proc bonus damage divided by the normal damage)
2668467/450=5930 (the total DPS gain from the trinket procs)

So we're looking at roughly 4.5% or 5930 DPS in full heroic T14 BiS with the Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen proc.
Add 1657*4.96=8219 DPS from the passive intellect of the heroic version.
A total of 5930+8219= 14149 DPS with Heroic Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen in full T14 heroic BiS.


Edit, disclaimer: I didn't add any extra spells during the trinket proc but I guess we could add a crit Haunt to each, which is around 350k extra damage = 778 DPS or 0.6% total damage.

[Deleted]

First proc at 3:24 ? o_o

[Bonkura]

Yeahh.. thinking about bugging Blizzard about this now. That's just bizarre to me. Especially when it was followed up by two more procs within 1.5m.

Tested again and had a proc after 2s wtf lol.

Gotta check if it activates some weird CD when swapping trinkets.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 09:49 PM ----------

Nah it just has that retarded RNG. Did 10 pulls where I waited 3 mins after the first proc before starting again. Times for first proc each attemtp below

00:02
00:28
00:14
00:50
00:08
02:54
03:33
03:36
01:15
02:15

Tweeted Ghostcrawler about this now.

[Viggers]

Yeahh.. thinking about bugging Blizzard about this now. That's just bizarre to me. Especially when it was followed up by two more procs within 1.5m.

Tested again and had a proc after 2s wtf lol.

Gotta check if it activates some weird CD when swapping trinkets.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 09:49 PM ----------

Nah it just has that retarded RNG. Did 10 pulls where I waited 3 mins after the first proc before starting again. Times for first proc each attemtp below

00:02
00:28
00:14
00:50
00:08
02:54
03:33
03:36
01:15
02:15

Tweeted Ghostcrawler about this now.

that is some sickening rng right there :s DO NOT WANT

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 08:09 PM ----------

So we're looking at roughly 4.5% or 5930 DPS in full heroic T14 BiS with the Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen proc.
Add 1657*4.96=8219 DPS from the passive intellect of the heroic version.
A total of 5930+8219= 14149 DPS with Heroic Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen in full T14 heroic BiS.

is this showing that the heroic trinket gives 2-3 times the dps of the normal mode trinket?! surely that cant be right

[Deleted]

Those 3+ min first procs can't be intended ><

[Bonkura]

that is some sickening rng right there :s DO NOT WANT

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 08:09 PM ----------



is this showing that the heroic trinket gives 2-3 times the dps of the normal mode trinket?! surely that cant be right

No, they should be roughly the same. It's just a 190 passive intellect difference (~942 DPS in T14 gear). I just used the heroic version's passive for my final calculation of the total DPS value from the trinket.

Those 3+ min first procs can't be intended ><

Maybe I have to wait more than 3 minutes between each pull. Too time consuming to try that idea now. Planning on killing Heroic Megaera in the raid test in 1h for the HC version of the trinket.

[Mammon]

Those 3+ min first procs can't be intended ><

I believe they are. 0.5PPM means 1 proc every 2 minutes on average, right? It doesn't mean its certain.
After the 3:24 proc there is a new proc at 3:55, 2 procs within 4 minutes.

[Deleted]

Isn't the PPM system intended to be average and random?
A first proc 3 minutes into the fight is far from impossible for something that has an average proc of once every two minutes.

It does kind of suck though, but it's also kind of fun and can make the first minute during the pull really low or really high DPS wise.

Me like, maybe... perhaps kind of...

[Rustjive]

RealPPM is designed in a way where you're not guaranteed a proc on the first cast (the time since last proc is capped at 10s), but your chance to get it within the start of the fight should still be very high. With a .5 RPPM trinket, Bonkura's proc rate should be: .5 * 1.15 * 10 / 60 = 9.5% ish (assuming 6637 haste rating). The chance that he cast spells for 3 minutes straight with that rate without it proccing is impossbly low. There is something amiss.

[xskarma]

The chance that he cast spells for 3 minutes straight with that rate without it proccing is impossbly low. There is something amiss.

Hmm, well if there is I hope they get it fixed. Hopefully some more trinkets got handed out with raid testing today and there'll be more samples for Blizz to look at (both from the raid tests and after with trinkets having dropped).

[Xorn]

I can see it now: DS + SkB + Trinket = <3

[Bonkura]

I had a couple of back-to-back procs from BotH during some pulls of Megaera HC yesterday. A close to 8k int proc during most of the duration of BL. Hell yeah.

[Shauni]

I had a couple of back-to-back procs from BotH during some pulls of Megaera HC yesterday. A close to 8k int proc during most of the duration of BL. Hell yeah.

Working as intended.
Said no ghostcrawler ever

[Deleted]

I'm interested to see how useful people think the 100% crit trinket will be for Demo - mostly relating to Doom.

If we get a proc during Dark Soul this is obviously the perfect scenario - Dark Soul buffed, 100% crit Doom would be pretty good. I'm thinking best case is you get off a HoG->Meta->Doom->Toc for corruption buffing/Soulfire depending on how it interacts with crit damage scaling. Could be pretty tricky making the most out of it tbh.

I'm assuming that a 100%crit Doom is going to be better than a Dark soul buffed one - which could make it pretty frustrating if you manage to lock yourself out of meta for the proc duration (quite unlikely I guess but still possible).

Starting to think that several factors (set bonuses, Meta gem, trinkets) are all tailoring a lot more towards affliction for 5.2. WTB a mastery proc/on-use trinket!

[Surutcra]

RealPPM is designed in a way where you're not guaranteed a proc on the first cast (the time since last proc is capped at 10s), but your chance to get it within the start of the fight should still be very high. With a .5 RPPM trinket, Bonkura's proc rate should be: .5 * 1.15 * 10 / 60 = 9.5% ish (assuming 6637 haste rating). The chance that he cast spells for 3 minutes straight with that rate without it proccing is impossbly low. There is something amiss.

That is not exacty true.

It is actually totally normal that you get to see some heavy randomness with low RPPM trinkets. Let me clarify this a bit :
- Each time you have an opportunity to trigger the effect, the game rolls a dice and (whether or not you actually get a proc) saves the present time in a variable say "time_of_last_chance_to_proc".
- The formula for the chance to proc is "P = RPPM * haste * (present_time - time_of_last_chance_to_proc) / 60s", with the time difference capped to 10s.

This means that if you regularly get a chance to proc the effect, the chance that the effect triggers between t and t+dt is dP = RPPM * haste * dt / 60s. With that underlying mechanic, the time between two procs will follow an exponential law, i.e. the arrival of procs is a poisson process of rate (RPPM * haste / 60) s^(-1).

The cap will only come in action when you don't get a chance to proc the effect for a long time. This is true at the moment of the pull. And you indeed have a ~10% chance to proc your trinket right away, but only on the FIRST chance you get to proc it. On subsequent occasions, the chance will be very low again.

TL;DR : low RPPM => high randomness, totally normal (no value judgement, just stating the math facts). Relatively high chance to proc right away at the pull, if you don't get a proc on your first hit, the chance immediately drops to what it would be in the middle of a fight.

- If you like the idea of having trinket procs not be totally predictable
- but dislike the idea of low RPPM trinkets getting very random results (in terms of the total number of procs and their distribution over time)
- [and have sufficient probability intuition / knowledge]
=> Go check my suggestion of "smoothed RPPM" : http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20209867

[Ridcully]

Starting to think that several factors (set bonuses, Meta gem, trinkets) are all tailoring a lot more towards affliction for 5.2. WTB a mastery proc/on-use trinket!

Affliction needs to always have 1 or 2 soulshards to take full benefit of crit trinket, meaning you can't spend them all on other procs. Tricky for everyone.

[Viggers]

Affliction needs to always have 1 or 2 soulshards to take full benefit of crit trinket, meaning you can't spend them all on other procs. Tricky for everyone.

yeah, i think that this fact alone may end up decreasing the value of that trinket quite a bit.

made me think of another question though, say our dots are all buffed with 100% crit. when we MG, will the ghost ticks also be crits every time?

[Ridcully]

made me think of another question though, say our dots are all buffed with 100% crit. when we MG, will the ghost ticks also be crits every time?

Not likely, but can't think of a way to test it without spending an hour on dummy switching gear sets. After some thinking, spending 2 shards is stupid, thats 16 seconds of +25% damage while this trinket provides about +30% for the duration of the buffed dots. Even spending 1 shard makes this trinket lose a minimum of (8+8+8)/(21+27+36)*25/30 ~= 24% of it's potential value.