If it wasn't for the Orcs, would the other races get along ok?

[Frontenac]

Without a host body, he was hemorrhaging power and dying.

The Lich King (The orc Ner'zhul) didn't need a host body. His soul was trapped in the armor encased in the ice crystal that constituted the Frozen Throne. He conquered Northrend, Lordaeron, Quel'Thalas and Dalaran without a body. His power began to wane only when Illidan, using the Eye of Sargeras, attempted to kill the Lich King. A crack was formed in the Frozen Throne through which the Lich King's power was seeping. Only then the union with Arthas was necessary.

[Aquamonkey]

The Lich King (The orc Ner'zhul) didn't need a host body. His soul was trapped in the armor encased in the ice crystal that constituted the Frozen Throne. He conquered Northrend, Lordaeron, Quel'Thalas and Dalaran without a body. His power began to wane only when Illidan, using the Eye of Sargeras, attempted to kill the Lich King. A crack was formed in the Frozen Throne through which the Lich King's power was seeping. Only then the union with Arthas was necessary.

Yea, I had my timeline wrong. But he was already leaking power before Illidan's attack from when he pushed out Frostmourne. Illidan just made it worse.

[Frontenac]

I guess I got mixed up on the timeline. Ner'zhul was on Azeroth a lot longer than I remember before pushing out Frostmourne.

---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 09:41 AM ----------


Sorry to burst your bubble: "Indeed, if the orcs never make it to Azeroth, the Alliance will never form. Eventually civil war will break out, further weakening the human kingdoms. Ultimately the Burning Legion will invade Azeroth, destroying it in the absence of any defenders."

True. However, all this says is that one day, the Legion will invade. Well, the return of the Burning Legion was written with letters of fire since the Sundering. They wouldn't leave the only world to have resisted them alone. However, it remains true that the story would have been quite different. In "present" day, maybe the Legion would not have invade Azeroth yet.

Anyway, there seem to be a lot of different futures : in one, we had to kill Nozdormu on a timeline where the end of the world was caused not by the Legion, but by the Old Gods...

Like the Wise said : "Always in motion, the Future is."

[Aquamonkey]

True. However, all this says is that one day, the Legion will invade. Well, the return of the Burning Legion was written with letters of fire since the Sundering. They wouldn't leave the only world to have resisted them alone. However, it remains true that the story would have been quite different. In "present" day, maybe the Legion would not have invade Azeroth yet.

Anyway, there seem to be a lot of different futures : in one, we had to kill Nozdormu on a timeline where the end of the world was caused not by the Legion, but by the Old Gods...

Like the Wise said : "Always in motion, the Future is."

The future changes depending on what part of history you change. No Orcs in Azeroth means Legion wipes out everything. No Dragon Soul to stop Deathwing means Old Gods destroy everything.

The Legion would have invaded before the Old Gods could do the Hour of Twilight. The Hour of Twilight is not dependent on Orcs being in Azeroth, the Old Gods would do this anyway. But since the future without Orcs on Azeroth is determined to be one where the Legion destroys everything, the Legion must have beaten the Old Gods to the punch.

As to whether, in present time, the Legion would have already destroyed Azeroth is unknown. Just that it would have happened sometime between the year of the First War and the distant future when the End Time instance takes place.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Did they state somewhere that without Orcs, the Legion would have destroyed Azeroth, or are you just saying "its implied"?

[Florena]

Did they state somewhere that without Orcs, the Legion would have destroyed Azeroth, or are you just saying "its implied"?

The Bronze Dragonfight guy at the entrance to the Opening of the Dark Portal instance states this. And I trust their authority on the workings of time.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The Bronze Dragonfight guy at the entrance to the Opening of the Dark Portal instance states this. And I trust their authority on the workings of time.

Excuse my ignorance.

[mickybrighteyes]

It's also partly because of how the WC3 campaign plays out where you basically needed ALL the factions to stand against the burning legion's invasion and buy Malfurion the time so that he could Spirit bomb the shit out of Archimonde with Whisps.

honestly though... I just blame the draenei for everything bad that's ever happened in WoW anyways, more fun than blaming infinitely powerful beings of pure power.

edit: Medivh gathering the alliance, and horde really. I don't recall much of it beyond Thrall gathering his people and following Medivh's instructions at first leading into some of the early story arc.

[Frontenac]

The future changes depending on what part of history you change. No Orcs in Azeroth means Legion wipes out everything. No Dragon Soul to stop Deathwing means Old Gods destroy everything.

The Legion would have invaded before the Old Gods could do the Hour of Twilight. The Hour of Twilight is not dependent on Orcs being in Azeroth, the Old Gods would do this anyway. But since the future without Orcs on Azeroth is determined to be one where the Legion destroys everything, the Legion must have beaten the Old Gods to the punch.

As to whether, in present time, the Legion would have already destroyed Azeroth is unknown. Just that it would have happened sometime between the year of the First War and the distant future when the End Time instance takes place.

Except that distant future would not have existed since the Legion would have destroyed everything before.

Anyway, that prophecy to justify our intervention in the Caverns of Time makes no sense. So the orcs federates the human kingdoms to create the Alliance and make Azeroth defences stronger? Really? Since the Dark Portal, Stormwind was crippled, Alterac destroyed, Lordaeron destroyed, Arathor is reduced to almost nothing, Dalaran is also crippled, Gilneas is reduced to a howling remnant and what the hell happened with Kul Tiras. You can say that the Forsaken are Lordaeron, but their power is only a fraction of the might that was Lordaeron at its height. The High/Blood Elves are only a fraction of what they were too. Yes, Azeroth is surely stronger now. And I didn't even talk about the effects the Dark Portal had on Kalimdor (mainly because of the Scourge). Let's not talk either about the effects of the present war between the Horde and the Alliance.

Also, if the Burning Legion can invade Azeroth without using minions like the Orcish Horde or the Undead Scourge, why have they not do it themselves yet? You know, Medivh (he was possessed by bloody Sargeras in that time!) could have just opened a portal to let the Burning Legion in and it would have been over. They could even do it now, because Azeroth has never been in a weaker state than now.

---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 08:23 PM ----------

The Bronze Dragonfight guy at the entrance to the Opening of the Dark Portal instance states this. And I trust their authority on the workings of time.

I trust the writers less...

[Aquamonkey]

Except that distant future would not have existed since the Legion would have destroyed everything before.

That's what I was saying.

Anyway, that prophecy to justify our intervention in the Caverns of Time makes no sense. So the orcs federates the human kingdoms to create the Alliance and make Azeroth defences stronger? Really? Since the Dark Portal, Stormwind was crippled, Alterac destroyed, Lordaeron destroyed, Arathor is reduced to almost nothing, Dalaran is also crippled, Gilneas is reduced to a howling remnant and what the hell happened with Kul Tiras. You can say that the Forsaken are Lordaeron, but their power is only a fraction of the might that was Lordaeron at its height. The High/Blood Elves are only a fraction of what they were too. Yes, Azeroth is surely stronger now. And I didn't even talk about the effects the Dark Portal had on Kalimdor (mainly because of the Scourge). Let's not talk either about the effects of the present war between the Horde and the Alliance.

Also, if the Burning Legion can invade Azeroth without using minions like the Orcish Horde or the Undead Scourge, why have they not do it themselves yet? You know, Medivh (he was possessed by bloody Sargeras in that time!) could have just opened a portal to let the Burning Legion in and it would have been over. They could even do it now, because Azeroth has never been in a weaker state than now.

Rise of the Horde made it sound like the Legion just shows up in full force. The first time it occurred to Kil'jaeden to use discreet means of infiltration was with Draenor. "We have descended upon worlds in force before, and to no avail. ... There are more ways to destroy one's enemy than with an army."

[Frontenac]

That's what I was saying.


Rise of the Horde made it sound like the Legion just shows up in full force. The first time it occurred to Kil'jaeden to use discreet means of infiltration was with Draenor. "We have descended upon worlds in force before, and to no avail. ... There are more ways to destroy one's enemy than with an army."

And to no avail? Does that mean that other worlds than Azeroth have succeeded to repell an invasion from the Burning Legion? Or is he just talking about the Draenei? They tried to invade worlds where they were before, but the Draenei always succeeded to flee?

Anyway, if they don't need any minions they should attack now. Azeroth is so crippled that they would win. Even the Aspects are gone (well, in a certain point of view). So orcs or no orcs, Azeroth would be doomed.

[Aquamonkey]

And to no avail? Does that mean that other worlds than Azeroth have succeeded to repell an invasion from the Burning Legion? Or is he just talking about the Draenei? They tried to invade worlds where they were before, but the Draenei always succeeded to flee?

Anyway, if they don't need any minions they should attack now. Azeroth is so crippled that they would win. Even the Aspects are gone (well, in a certain point of view). So orcs or no orcs, Azeroth would be doomed.

"To no avail" means the Draenei always escaped. He utterly decimated the inhabitants of those planets. "So often before, Kil’jaeden's forces had descended upon a world where Velen was thought to be. only to have him escape. Kil’jaeden had nursed his insulted pride by destroying such worlds, but the slaughter of primitive races—though pleasant—did not slake his demonic thirst for complete and total revenge."

[Pudrick]

Well, they seem to be the unifying factor the Horde.