5.2 Trinket Discussion

[Polarthief]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6?page=92#1834


They changed how the RPPM coefficient is calculated for Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance, I changed the main post but I used a crit value for what I'm assuming a full normal ToT fire mage will have.

Out of curiosity, is 40% before or after CM?

Assuming after, which seems a bit low, tbh (if by "full normal ToT Mage" you mean 522 iLevel. I had higher in 5 NT15 with half heroics/half normals T14 gear)

[mrgreenthump]

Out of curiosity, is 40% before or after CM?

For those calculations it has to be before. And as for 40% crit for a fire mage.. in full normal gear, yeah its not too far off even as current(t14) unupgraded BiS(around 37.5% average atm when you take all the int procs into account)

Oh and also before boss crit reduction

[Schizophreni]

Out of curiosity, is 40% before or after CM?

Assuming after, which seems a bit low, tbh (if by "full normal ToT Mage" you mean 522 iLevel. I had higher in 5 NT15 with half heroics/half normals T14 gear)

Yea just the normal spell crit not the CM crit, that's what it will be based from.

[Deleted]

I have tweet GC to ask him if it the SpellCritChance of the spell that crit or of the Character at this moment.
I think won't have any response directly, I never has.

But it can chance a lot of thinks, especially for Fire/Frost mage.
Assuming a Frost mage with 20% crit and 40% haste who haven't crit since 3s.
He will have :

• proc chance : 6.47% = 0.77*1.2*1.4*3/60 - if calculate with character crit chance at this moment.
• proc chance : 9.92% = 0.77*1.84*1.4*3/60 - if calculate with spell crit chance of the spell that crit.

I found that the uptime can vary between 21.6% (character crit) and 33.1% (spell that crit).

If it use the spell crit, then Lei-Shen trinket will be even better !!

[scuac]

Wushoolay’s Final Choice

1467 Hit
1333 Spell power every 2 seconds for 20 seconds

(7331.5 Average Spell power from proc)


[[.56*1.25 * 20] /60] * 7331.5= 1710.8 Intellect

Is this a stacking effect? Like you get 1333 after first tick 2666 after second etc?
How is then the average 7333? Should be less than that if my math doesn't fail me.

EDIT: after thinking about it some more, I think your average is exactly double what it should be. If the effect stacks like I think it does then the average is 1333 * 55 / 20 = 3665.75

EDIT 2: I see now that you say average per PROC, whereas I am talking about average per second, so we are both correct I guess But still, should you use average proc or average per sec on formula?

[Deleted]

Once the trinket proc, you receive a buff of 1505 int (435 ilvl) that stack every 2s for 20s.

But it have a 22s ICD to prevent the trinket to proc before the previous as fail.

[Imnick]

From the front page it looks like Blizzard want DoT crit snapping from Vision to be permissible, didn't someone's testing indicate that for Mages it wasn't?
I guess either that's an oversight or a bug.

[mrgreenthump]

From the front page it looks like Blizzard want DoT crit snapping from Vision to be permissible, didn't someone's testing indicate that for Mages it wasn't?
I guess either that's an oversight or a bug.

Well.. they seem to want it, but when druids get their hands on it, something gonna get nerfed..

[royals]

Well.. they seem to want it, but when druids get their hands on it, something gonna get nerfed..

From what they are saying, and what I am gathering... as fire our rotation will be built around managing this proc, which I find unfortunate. As it will be super fun and a neat new idea to a trinket I'm not looking forward to adjusting how we use cds while waiting for a specific trinket to drop.

Reminds me of Retribution in Firelands with that stupid Apparatus.

Overall excited about the new trinkets, not excited about having such a small window of time to make everything happen at once.

[mrgreenthump]

From what they are saying, and what I am gathering... as fire our rotation will be built around managing this proc, which I find unfortunate. As it will be super fun and a neat new idea to a trinket I'm not looking forward to adjusting how we use cds while waiting for a specific trinket to drop.

Reminds me of Retribution in Firelands with that stupid Apparatus.

Overall excited about the new trinkets, not excited about having such a small window of time to make everything happen at once.

Am actually doubting even if its truly BiS for fire in 5.2, I mean sure with alter time, you might gain 3-4 hot streaks with it, but still its only going to proc around once per 1,5 mins, and futhermore our crit with pyro will be so high at 535 ilevel, that the 100% crit might not make such a big difference in comparison to just using 1 of the other trinkets.. Plus as its a RPPM trinket so waiting for the proc sacrificing your dps cooldowns while you get other procs, might be the very last thing to do, I mean not using cd's when TW will prolly be more of a dps loss than waiting on a trinket that might proc, but hey thats just how I see it atm.

[Polarthief]

From what they are saying, and what I am gathering... as fire our rotation will be built around managing this proc, which I find unfortunate. As it will be super fun and a neat new idea to a trinket I'm not looking forward to adjusting how we use cds while waiting for a specific trinket to drop.

Reminds me of Retribution in Firelands with that stupid Apparatus.

Overall excited about the new trinkets, not excited about having such a small window of time to make everything happen at once.

Our DoT Ticks don't influence ANYTHING in our rotation though. Having a 100% Crit on NT and Pyroblast DoT for 12s would be quite nice though.

I'll be passing this to our Warlock for sure though. I'd prefer LotC/BoH in all honesty as H LotC isn't going to be that bad (assuming I can get it in these last few weeks)

---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 12:57 PM ----------

Am actually doubting even if its truly BiS for fire in 5.2, I mean sure with alter time, you might gain 3-4 hot streaks with it, but still its only going to proc around once per 1,5 mins, and futhermore our crit with pyro will be so high at 535 ilevel, that the 100% crit might not make such a big difference in comparison to just using 1 of the other trinkets.. Plus as its a RPPM trinket so waiting for the proc sacrificing your dps cooldowns while you get other procs, might be the very last thing to do, I mean not using cd's when TW will prolly be more of a dps loss than waiting on a trinket that might proc, but hey thats just how I see it atm.

The problem is all it will do is setup a HU+HS if you scorch a few times, unless you get RIDICULOUSLY lucky and have it procc just before your AT/Combustion cycle.

[royals]

Am actually doubting even if its truly BiS for fire in 5.2, I mean sure with alter time, you might gain 3-4 hot streaks with it, but still its only going to proc around once per 1,5 mins, and futhermore our crit with pyro will be so high at 535 ilevel, that the 100% crit might not make such a big difference in comparison to just using 1 of the other trinkets.. Plus as its a RPPM trinket so waiting for the proc sacrificing your dps cooldowns while you get other procs, might be the very last thing to do, I mean not using cd's when TW will prolly be more of a dps loss than waiting on a trinket that might proc, but hey thats just how I see it atm.

I as well will not be using this more than likely if all possible. I have H-LotC and will prob be going for the crit+int trinket as well as the stacking int trinket, time will tell, my main point is that if the ICD is coming up and you can get a pretty decent combust up w/ the proc, a fully critting combust will be quite sexy and it makes me drool a lil bit

[Deleted]

Fire spec is the contrary of the Balance sec.
Balance: DoT proc big damage's spell
Fire: big damage proc DoT

In this two case, the testing is two see if player can found "interesting" use that Dev don't have think of. Potential issue with perpetual proc (HS chain proc, ...).
It can result in a change in the trinket for something like this : "your next 2 spell have 100% crit chance" or equivalent. Or they can remove DoT from using the 100% crit buff.

[elpadrino293]

I as well will not be using this more than likely if all possible. I have H-LotC and will prob be going for the crit+int trinket as well as the stacking int trinket, time will tell, my main point is that if the ICD is coming up and you can get a pretty decent combust up w/ the proc, a fully critting combust will be quite sexy and it makes me drool a lil bit

there is no ICD on Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen though... both Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance and Wushoolay's Final Choice do not have ICDs either...

[Schizophreni]

The fact the you can't have some semblance of prediction to the trinket really makes it too idealistic to assume pulling off something like a full crit combustion.

Just thinking it out, assume Pyro's DPET is 300,000 (264k in current BiS) so that each Pyro crit you get is 300,000 extra damage, even though the dot would not get the full benefit, and Fireball has an DPET of 75k (62k in current BiS) with the ideal scenario: dot procs the trinket with a fireball in the air, a pyro is following and you have a heating up which means you can get

0: Fireball and Pyro
1.5: Pyro
3.0: Pyro

Extra damage: 975,000

And looking at the PPM with haste you get that it procs once about every 90 seconds so, 975,000/90 = 10,833 DPS if that happens every time. I'm sure you could get even more for a proc if you have combustion up and did Pyro, Pyro, Combust but that Combust is only going to be boosted by ~40% because of the crit we're already going to have. These are always going to be small window, high chance based procs with you have to being vigiliant and ready for them to get the damage out of them.


I'd say something more likely but still on the high end is getting two Pyros worth, so:

600,000/90 = 6,666 DPS

and compare that to normal Wushoolay's with an undershot intellect scale factor

1711 *4(int) = 6844 DPS


We're also not taking into account that those crits we get with the trinket already had a 50%+ chance to crit effectively making your gains possibly null over a standard trinket.

I'd still want to try it anyway because if you could get lucky or work with it the potential is massive.

[Deleted]

I think it is a very powerful trinket which used in combination with AT (like Serene said) would give us around 7-8 pyro crits. I would wait until I get a Pyro!+HU proc then proceed with casting a fireball which I would end with a macro containing the trinket + AT + Pyro at the end. So I get 8 seconds of 100% crit in which I squeeze as many pyro's as I can out of which all will crit. Dunno if I should use Combustion after the 3rd Pyro or I can squeeze in a 4th before the ignite from the first pyro falls.

What kind of utopia world do you live in?.. Also "I would end with a macro containing the trinket + AT + Pyro at the end." its not on use...

I am very sceptical for the potential of this trinket, specially considering the other options and properly a 45-50% base crit at some point during the tier. Add to all that, there is HIT on the trinket, witch is gonna be our weakest stat in 5.2

[elpadrino293]

i dont see how people are planning to line up cooldowns, or anything else for that matter, with the randomness of RPPM.



look at the gaps between the jade spirit procs... especially towards the end of the fight where it did not proc for ~90 seconds... and then again the middle of the fight when the buff was up for ~90 sec out of ~120sec.

[mrgreenthump]

i dont see how people are planning to line up cooldowns, or anything else for that matter, with the randomness of RPPM.



look at the gaps between the jade spirit procs... especially towards the end of the fight where it did not proc for ~90 seconds... and then again the middle of the fight when the buff was up for ~90 sec out of ~120sec.

Pretty much nailed on what I have been trying to say.. You can no longer line your procs and cd's with trinket procs, even at start you might not get a proc, and even worse you might get a proc when you use alter time..

[Deleted]

Hum, interesting.
Can you give more detail like on what fight it is, at what time BL was used, etc ?

[elpadrino293]

Hum, interesting.
Can you give more detail like on what fight it is, at what time BL was used, etc ?

that particular fight was a heroic feng i believe... bloodlust would have been near the end for the fire phase i suppose. but i see similar results from other fights... a heroic garajal:



from ~18:50 to ~19:35 the buff was active... like 3 back to back to back procs on top of each other. i don't want to flood the post with pictures, but i do have other logs where the proc is no where to be found for 60-90 seconds at a time. it's always pretty random, and i have no idea when its going to come back up, but it is typically close to the 45% uptime i would expect with ~12.51% haste.

2*1.1251*12/60=.45004

*edit: with this behavior, in addition to the similar behavior of two RPPM trinkets with far less uptime than jade spirit, i don't see how you can plan to line up procs+cooldowns+debuffs effectively...