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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    Neither consumables will add any noticeable time difference
    Invis Potions and Amber-CC would like a word with you.

  2. #162
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flawless101 View Post
    There's nothing stopping others from doing this. Is running Scholo to get the transformation also considered an exploit?
    That logic just doesn't work. There is nothing stopping others from doing any exploit. Because exploits don't require a specific person just a certain set of circumstances. Anyone could create a paladin to bug out Yogg-0, anyone could have been an engineer to bug out Lich King. Just because anyone can do it doesn't stop it from being an exploit, it just means its an exploit anyone can do.

    The thing is if challenge mode is supposed to be about getting the fastest run of an instance, why is it okay to bring in things from two instances? You are doing something that can't be gained in one instance which sort of invalidates the spirit of doing a timed run of that instance. Since you aren't using things only from one state of that instance.

    A timed run should use only the things you can obtain in the instance you are running. And not things you can obtain then reset.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 02:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by makkk View Post
    and this is exactly why they wont fix it.
    They can easily purge the times you know. Just reset all times for the instance and people can repopulate them with the bug fixed.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They can easily purge the times you know. Just reset all times for the instance and people can repopulate them with the bug fixed.

    Oh yeah. That's is incredibly smart, I can already imagine the rage.

  4. #164
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flawless101 View Post
    Oh yeah. That's is incredibly smart, I can already imagine the rage.
    The only ones that would be raging are those that used the exploit. Why would you rage when you can just go and get your time again?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The only ones that would be raging are those that used the exploit. Why would you rage when you can just go and get your time again?
    Because they already did once legitimately? (assuming Blizzard labels this as not "legitimate", which I highly doubt they will - this isn't the only CM "exploit" that can skew times that still hasn't been changed) Maybe the people they did it with quit? Doesn't make their time invalid just because they can't jump right in and do it all over again.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/13/no...nge/#continued
    If at all feasible, we're not going to be adjusting the content itself. Persistent leaderboards are the backbone of the system, and if we make the dungeon easier, then your 14:13 time last week might actually be more impressive than my 14:05 clear today, but there would be no way of knowing that. It's conceivable that we might adjust the actual Gold/Silver/Bronze cutoff times slightly if it turns out we were badly off the mark with the tuning, but we're pretty confident in our numbers.
    Wiping times = NOT persistent. Backbones of a system? Pretty important.

  6. #166

  7. #167
    Reported for abusing a bug/exploit

  8. #168
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...q2-LxLI#t=600s

    Here's the Shadopan bug that everyone uses notice the 4/4 purified from one pack by clicking the add at the same time.

    I guess the question is should Blizzard fix the bugs and purge the leaderboards or just accept them and let everyone going for the WR use the bugs. I think the second choice is better.

  9. #169
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    Wiping times = NOT persistent. Backbones of a system? Pretty important.
    The problem is that if you fix the exploit no one would ever be able to beat those times. To keep the times would kill the challenge mode for that instance because no one can compete against those times with out cheating. That is why you would wipe all the times. It would be better to just wipe the times of groups that used the exploit but that might not be possible to track.

    So instead of fostering continued competition, you are in favor of killing all competition for that challenge mode. Gotcha.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The problem is that if you fix the exploit no one would ever be able to beat those times. To keep the times would kill the challenge mode for that instance because no one can compete against those times with out cheating. That is why you would wipe all the times. It would be better to just wipe the times of groups that used the exploit but that might not be possible to track.

    So instead of fostering continued competition, you are in favor of killing all competition for that challenge mode. Gotcha.
    As of now it's possible to beat that siege time without resetting the instance for additional stacks.. just saying

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerthfu View Post
    As of now it's possible to beat that siege time without resetting the instance for additional stacks.. just saying
    This is true.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The problem is that if you fix the exploit no one would ever be able to beat those times. To keep the times would kill the challenge mode for that instance because no one can compete against those times with out cheating. That is why you would wipe all the times. It would be better to just wipe the times of groups that used the exploit but that might not be possible to track.

    So instead of fostering continued competition, you are in favor of killing all competition for that challenge mode. Gotcha.
    ...No. Not what I was saying at all. Because you don't fix the "exploit". You're at a very high level of play if you're getting times like this, you will find out about this and have no problem doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by makkk View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...q2-LxLI#t=600s

    Here's the Shadopan bug that everyone uses notice the 4/4 purified from one pack by clicking the add at the same time.

    I guess the question is should Blizzard fix the bugs and purge the leaderboards or just accept them and let everyone going for the WR use the bugs. I think the second choice is better.
    This right here. How much you want to bet there is probably an exploit in some form in at least half of the available challenge modes? A lot of people doing them are probably more inclined to keep their tactics a secret, for the same reasons why World first raiding guilds don't release their videos right away. And how much you want to bet they will continue to be found for the indefinite future? They going to wipe the boards every time? No.

    • Fix bugs, wipe leaderboards: No persistance. People have to go all over again and reestablish all of their times. Really not acceptable.
    • Fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: New groups are put at a disadvantage at getting top times, something I already mentioned in my first post here
    • Don't fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: People getting top times do the research and find the ways to use the "exploits". Everyone is capable of the same "exploits". I really don't see this as a problem, or at the very least it is preferable to the alternatives above. Unless an exploit appears that is only capable by a particular class or spec, which is not what is being discussed here.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    A lot of people doing them are probably more inclined to keep their tactics a secret, for the same reasons why World first raiding guilds don't release their videos right away.
    If you look at all the top groups in CMs, none of them keep anything secrets. I know as a fact that I stream everything from mine and what I don't stream I fraps and try to upload asap. Aftermath group streamed everything, Novus Ordo Seclorum's group also stream everything etc etc. There's nothing secret in world time and if you ask anyone from any of the top group about their strategy they''ll most likely answer you without hesitation.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    As I said earlier.. I see nothing particularly exploitive about this, this is just clever, but.... this is not the spirit of a speed run. The spirit of a speed run is starting at the same start point and finding a shorter path to the end. You can't start at a more advanced point.. that completely defeats the whole concept.
    Nope, it's exactly in the spirit of a speed run... if you start the clock at the start of the first run and don't reset the clock when you reset the dungeon.

  15. #175
    Fantastic run.

    Double hunter is completely OP in challenge modes

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    ...No. Not what I was saying at all. Because you don't fix the "exploit". You're at a very high level of play if you're getting times like this, you will find out about this and have no problem doing it.



    This right here. How much you want to bet there is probably an exploit in some form in at least half of the available challenge modes? A lot of people doing them are probably more inclined to keep their tactics a secret, for the same reasons why World first raiding guilds don't release their videos right away. And how much you want to bet they will continue to be found for the indefinite future? They going to wipe the boards every time? No.

    • Fix bugs, wipe leaderboards: No persistance. People have to go all over again and reestablish all of their times. Really not acceptable.
    • Fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: New groups are put at a disadvantage at getting top times, something I already mentioned in my first post here
    • Don't fix bugs, don't wipe leaderboards: People getting top times do the research and find the ways to use the "exploits". Everyone is capable of the same "exploits". I really don't see this as a problem, or at the very least it is preferable to the alternatives above. Unless an exploit appears that is only capable by a particular class or spec, which is not what is being discussed here.


    I can't speak for everyone voicing against the tactics of resetting with the buff. If there is an exploit w.e. people will use it to get a better time. My only problem with this paticular bug / exploit is that you're essentially resetting your timer mid run. It's as if you're doing a 400M sprint, then reset your timer at the 100M mark.

    The instance would not have been that quick if you didn't have the buff from before the reset which took more TIME to get, saying it was done in 10:17m is false.

  17. #177
    I didn't read the whole topic but there are lots of so named "exploits" in challenge modes. I'll name some:

    - Scholomance, transforming in normal, using it on challenge
    - Shado-Pan Monastery, using one dead body 4 times
    - Siege of Niuzao Temple, same like the last one but with the gong
    - Scarlet Monastery, mind control
    - this one

    And I am not a pro at it so I am sure there are even more of them.

    The biggest one is the Scarlet Monastery one, because it needs one particular class, any setup doesn't contain DK cannot do that.
    I think these should NOT be removed. All of them are easily understandable and everyone can reproduce them if he/she wants to. They don't act like a typical exploit, they don't trivialize anything, they just give you a chance to do better time. Some of them, like for example this one actually makes the challenge even harder and more complex. Another example, we spent like 3 hours to do the DK mind control trick through the whole instance, then we said f*** it and did the instance on normal way (okay, we used the MC on the first boss) and oneshotted the gold.

    Long story short, these tricks give a chance for better times, everyone can use them, so they shouldn't be removed (or at least shouldn't be removed without ladder resets). Just Blizzard should post that they allow us to use them so everyone who wants to compete could use them.

  18. #178
    Do you people not realise that this is the most interest a challenge mode time has got, pretty much since release? This is the reason this sort of thing needs to stay around, some group shaving a second off someone else isn't interesting, discovering methods like this is.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by torin856 View Post
    I didn't read the whole topic but there are lots of so named "exploits" in challenge modes. I'll name some:

    - Scholomance, transforming in normal, using it on challenge
    - Shado-Pan Monastery, using one dead body 4 times
    - Siege of Niuzao Temple, same like the last one but with the gong
    - Scarlet Monastery, mind control
    - this one

    And I am not a pro at it so I am sure there are even more of them.

    The biggest one is the Scarlet Monastery one, because it needs one particular class, any setup doesn't contain DK cannot do that.
    I think these should NOT be removed. All of them are easily understandable and everyone can reproduce them if he/she wants to. They don't act like a typical exploit, they don't trivialize anything, they just give you a chance to do better time. Some of them, like for example this one actually makes the challenge even harder and more complex. Another example, we spent like 3 hours to do the DK mind control trick through the whole instance, then we said f*** it and did the instance on normal way (okay, we used the MC on the first boss) and oneshotted the gold.

    Long story short, these tricks give a chance for better times, everyone can use them, so they shouldn't be removed (or at least shouldn't be removed without ladder resets). Just Blizzard should post that they allow us to use them so everyone who wants to compete could use them.

    The issue isn't the "exploits" all the other ones you listed, aside from the scholo thing, which you could have the flask filled from hours before. You do during the course of the timer in the instance. This one with the ooze buff, you do work IN the instance with time ticking down, and then essentially reset your timer mid run. The timer reset seems to be the major issue most people have with it.

  20. #180
    I don't understand why people defend stacking the buff, "it doesn't matter if they cheat, anyone can do it". I don't even run challenge modes but in general you shouldn't have to cheat to win, *cough* tour de france *cough*.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

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