Poll: Do you think Turkey should one day join the EU?

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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    Do you not notice the part "13th century"? Besides, the whole point of the post you quoted was to say that the current Turkish generations aren't to blame for that yet here you are going on about the exact same thing.
    I dont blame the current turks for that. I blame them for denying the genocides and belittling these atrocities. I hate the way that even those calling for openmindedness on this forum try to skew the historical facts.

  2. #222
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Lolno.

    1) Cyprus
    2) Turkey isn't a European country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  3. #223
    Mechagnome Sforza's Avatar
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    As an Italian citizen (ethnic one) i utterly oppose the Turkish entry.
    They struggle to separate the state from islamic extremists and they have nothing in common with Europe.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    Come to Croatia, we kind of love Turkey and Turkish culture right now (a bit because of the TV series Suleiman which is hugely popular here). And that's all despite the fact the Ottoman Empire was trying to conquer Croatia for like 300 years.
    If you got good beer, Why not?

  5. #225
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Campechano View Post
    As an Italian citizen (ethnic one) i utterly oppose the Turkish entry.
    They struggle to separate the state from islamic extremists and they have nothing in common with Europe.
    Turkey is a very moderate Islamic country. They are as Muslim as italy is Catholic.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Turkey is a very moderate Islamic country. They are as Muslim as italy is Catholic.
    It's still too much.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGBMQGehY0

    And where are all the feminists and child rights advocates when you need them? Dropping your kid on the street?
    Last edited by Cybran; 2013-02-24 at 11:23 PM.

  7. #227
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Turkey is a very moderate Islamic country. They are as Muslim as italy is Catholic.
    1) Cyprus. Their occupation of it has ruined the northern half of the island, and while they still prop up their pupped government I am going to oppose any and all overtures from Turkey.
    2) They are not. Turkey is highly Islamic, a faith which is not comparable to Catholicism, and has to heavily enforce the secularism that Ataturk introduced into the government. Furthermore, as they are not culturally European I don't see any reason why they should be permitted. Israel is a preferable candidate to Turkey, point of fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #228
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    It's still too much.
    What do you mean? Young guys drink like us, girls wear slutty clothes like us... Life is normal.
    As a matter of fact, I really think its a possible way for Islam and modern society to live together.

  9. #229
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    What do you mean? Young guys drink like us, girls wear slutty clothes like us... Life is normal.
    As a matter of fact, I really think its a possible way for Islam and modern society to live together.
    I don't. Islam is stuck in the Middle Ages, lacking many of the social developments that have tempered Christianity. It is to be expected, given that Islam, like many Eastern Orthodox countries, lacks the notion of the Church and State being seperate entities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    1) Cyprus. Their occupation of it has ruined the northern half of the island
    I am in Famagusta at this very moment and it doesn't seem ruined. It seems it's not recognized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    2) They are not. Turkey is highly Islamic, a faith which is not comparable to Catholicism, and has to heavily enforce the secularism that Ataturk introduced into the government. Furthermore, as they are not culturally European I don't see any reason why they should be permitted. Israel is a preferable candidate to Turkey, point of fact.
    Have you ever been in Turkey?

  11. #231
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    I am in Famagusta at this very moment and it doesn't seem ruined. It seems it's not recognized.
    Famagusta and Kyrenia are dumps, don't even start. Northern Cyprus is, factually speaking, a poverty stricken puppet state propped up by the Turkish Government.

    Have you ever been in Turkey?
    Indeed I have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  12. #232
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    1) Cyprus. Their occupation of it has ruined the northern half of the island, and while they still prop up their pupped government I am going to oppose any and all overtures from Turkey.
    2) They are not. Turkey is highly Islamic, a faith which is not comparable to Catholicism, and has to heavily enforce the secularism that Ataturk introduced into the government. Furthermore, as they are not culturally European I don't see any reason why they should be permitted. Israel is a preferable candidate to Turkey, point of fact.
    Cyprus is an issue as Northern Ireland was. They got that sorted they can get this one sorted too with a bit of diplomacy.
    They aren't at all highly Islamic, don't know why would you say something like that? Go there try for yourself.
    No Israel would be a terrible choice at its current state. No resources, small country, demanding, why bother?

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Famagusta and Kyrenia are dumps, don't even start. Northern Cyprus is, factually speaking, a poverty stricken puppet state propped up by the Turkish Government.
    Dumps? I could agree some environmental problems in Famagusta Docks but it's far away from being a dump. You are pretty misinformed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Indeed I have.
    Which city?
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2013-02-24 at 11:35 PM.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    What do you mean? Young guys drink like us, girls wear slutty clothes like us... Life is normal.
    As a matter of fact, I really think its a possible way for Islam and modern society to live together.
    We will have to disagree on that. Did you look at the video I linnked? all 3 women in it wear head covers and the kid was thrown on the street because it likely has no father and her parents want to get rid of it. Turkey is a solid 50-100 years behind europe, but trying to force it's way in with intimidation.

    They have a plan to pour 10 Billion dollars in to Bosnia and use the country as a foothold for european expansion. They fund extremist muslim schools and centers. They have around 16 million Kurds that suffer in the poorest parts of the country while the money they need gets spend on neo ottomanism.

    I am firmly against them joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Which city?
    I have been to Izmir and a few resort towns on the west coast (lol). The shower water was salty and some streets in Izmir smelt like carcass (prolly meat market nearby who knows).

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I don't. Islam is stuck in the Middle Ages, lacking many of the social developments that have tempered Christianity. It is to be expected, given that Islam, like many Eastern Orthodox countries, lacks the notion of the Church and State being seperate entities.
    Yeah... ok....
    What I meant is a moderate form of Islam like the one that's now in turkey works perfectly fine. No need to start blaming ISLAM as if it was a singular entity or a country.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Cyprus is an issue as Northern Ireland was. They got that sorted they can get this one sorted too with a bit of diplomacy.
    They aren't at all highly Islamic, don't know why would you say something like that? Go there try for yourself.
    No Israel would be a terrible choice at its current state. No resources, small country, demanding, why bother?
    I've been there. Furthermore, the demographics and human rights issues don't lie.

    Israel would be an excellent choice for a number of reasons. For starters, it is a developed democratic republic with a stable economy. Second, it is highly Europeanised. Third, entry into the EU might help to allay their fears about invasion from Syria and Israel and make them less aggressive towards the Palestinians.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 03:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Dumps? I could agree some environmental problems in Famagusta Docks but it's far away from being a dump. You are pretty misinformed.
    Not really.

    Which city?
    I visited most of the major Hellenistic and Byzantine centers owing to it being primarily historical in nature; Constantinople, Nicaea, Trebizond, Ephesus, etc.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 03:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Yeah... ok....
    What I meant is a moderate form of Islam like the one that's now in turkey works perfectly fine. No need to start blaming ISLAM as if it was a singular entity or a country.
    The 'form of Islam' that 'works' in Turkey is one that is put down by a highly oppressive secular overlay introduced after the Empire was thrown out after the Graeco-Turkish War.

    Islam is a culturo-religious phenomenon that is culpable for a ream of social and political issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  17. #237
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    We will have to disagree on that. Did you look at the video I linnked? all 3 women in it wear head covers and the kid was thrown on the street because it likely has no father and her parents want to get rid of it. Turkey is a solid 50-100 years behind europe, but trying to force it's way in with intimidation.

    They have a plan to pour 10 Billion dollars in to Bosnia and use the country as a foothold for european expansion. They fund extremist muslim schools and centers. They have around 16 million Kurds that suffer in the poorest parts of the country while the money they need gets spend on neo ottomanism.

    I am firmly against them joining.



    I have been to Izmir and a few resort towns on the west coast (lol). The shower water was salty and some streets in Izmir smelt like carcass (prolly meat market nearby who knows).
    If turkey is 50-100 years back with a GDP growth 8 times Spain, a moderate society, a strong middle class, and a government that actually look after its own country, I'd gladly go back 50-100 years myself, instead of being locked in this grim present in this bland europe that has no sustainable economic future.
    Last edited by mmocea043e1e13; 2013-02-24 at 11:42 PM.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I visited most of the major Hellenistic and Byzantine centers owing to it being primarily historical in nature; Constantinople, Nicaea, Trebizond, Ephesus, etc.
    So you visited Istanbul and Izmir and concluded that Turkey is highly Islamic? And you claim Famagusta is being a dump? I will just call you are lying. You've never visited Turkey or Famagusta. At best your information depends on biased youtube videos. Guess what I am from Turkey and I live in Famagusta and your bullshit ends here.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 01:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    I have been to Izmir and a few resort towns on the west coast (lol). The shower water was salty and some streets in Izmir smelt like carcass (prolly meat market nearby who knows).
    Izmir is a very clean City. You were just unlucky.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2013-02-24 at 11:45 PM.

  19. #239
    Deleted
    Going to istanbul and then declaring turkey is a highly Islamic country is going to make your other points extremely hard to believe man.

    Edit: or sorry, i meant, costantinople. On the way to Persia if you're coming from Tracia.
    Last edited by mmocea043e1e13; 2013-02-24 at 11:51 PM.

  20. #240
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    So you visited Istanbul and Izmir and concluded that Turkey is highly Islamic? And you claim Famagusta is being a dump? I will just call you are lying. You've never visited Turkey or Famagusta. At best your information depends on biased youtube videos. Guess what I am from Turkey and I live in Famagusta and your bullshit ends here.
    I did not just visit Constantinople and Nicaea, no.

    You live in Cyprus, you mean. Which legitimately belongs to the Republican government in the south.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

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