Melee class with the greatest survivability?

[Korgoth]

Uh. Berserker Rage, Shockwave, a bleed, and overpower all say hello.

Are you talking about Kidney Shot here? No other stun has such a low CD. Guess what cheap shot requires? Resources. Lets make shockwave take like 60 rage then.

15% reduction is not common. I just pointed it out. Also, none of those other classes have second wind effects and the ability to throw on a shield, or a spell reflect.



Play RBG's.

You dont pvp at all do you. That is the only way I can see someone actually believing that Overpower counters rogues. That wasn't even true in Vanilla. Hell they even made fun of it in World of Roguecraft. Overpower does middling damage, spamming it into Evasion wont burst down a rogue, which you can't even do in 5.2 since it costs rage which is very limited. Or Berserker Rage, yeah you can get out of a sap and make yourself get feared, doesnt really help you when your bursted down in a Cheap Shot. And if I had rage regeneration equal to a rogue Id easily take Shockwave having a 60 rage cost and no CD. Listening to people like you could explain how GC is so bad at balancing.

[Valedus]

You dont pvp at all do you. That is the only way I can see someone actually believing that Overpower counters rogues. That wasn't even true in Vanilla. Hell they even made fun of it in World of Roguecraft. Overpower does middling damage, spamming it into Evasion wont burst down a rogue, which you can't even do in 5.2 since it costs rage which is very limited. Or Berserker Rage, yeah you can get out of a sap and make yourself get feared, doesnt really help you when your bursted down in a Cheap Shot. And if I had rage regeneration equal to a rogue Id easily take Shockwave having a 60 rage cost and no CD. Listening to people like you could explain how GC is so bad at balancing.

I do PvP. Quite a bit actually. That would be why I am frequenting the PvP forums. How does overpower not counter a rogue? It does auto-attack damage and has like a 75% crit chance. Not sure how that is "middling" damage. I understand it costs rage in 5.2, god forbid your class actually uses its resource for something other than 40k hits off the GCD. Part of me thinks you have never played an energy class considering you think it comes back quickly. There are often gaps in the rotation where you can't be building combo points. Energy is very frontloaded and rogues are dependent on openers, they always have been. I hate to tell you how to play, but if you are not stacked on your healer the rogue's sap should be at probably 4-4.5 seconds left by the time they open, leaving you with Zerker Rage for the blind. Listening to people like me may have prevented a shitty season 12 with stupid imbalances like 25% defensive stance and 20 second cooldown stuns on a dps class. Let me guess, next you'll say Warbringer Shockwave was fair and balanced.

[Merie]

Retribution!






Yeah just kidding. :P

[Korgoth]

I do PvP. Quite a bit actually. That would be why I am frequenting the PvP forums. How does overpower not counter a rogue? It does auto-attack damage and has like a 75% crit chance. Not sure how that is "middling" damage. I understand it costs rage in 5.2, god forbid your class actually uses its resource for something other than 40k hits off the GCD. Part of me thinks you have never played an energy class considering you think it comes back quickly. There are often gaps in the rotation where you can't be building combo points. Energy is very frontloaded and rogues are dependent on openers, they always have been. I hate to tell you how to play, but if you are not stacked on your healer the rogue's sap should be at probably 4-4.5 seconds left by the time they open, leaving you with Zerker Rage for the blind. Listening to people like me may have prevented a shitty season 12 with stupid imbalances like 25% defensive stance and 20 second cooldown stuns on a dps class. Let me guess, next you'll say Warbringer Shockwave was fair and balanced.

Hahahaha auto attack damage hahahahahaa. Zerker Rage for the blind. Man you must be playing a private server. Rofl he even defends rogues and mentions stupid imbalances like 25% damage reduction and 20s CD stuns, well Rogues have 30% Damage reduction and their 20s CD stun lasts 50% longer.

And warbringer shockwave is much better then cheap shot kidney shot paralytic.

[Deleted]

Monsk are insane.

[Vathius]

The real survivability nerf to warriors in 5.2 is Shockwave on a 40s CD, not 15% D Stance. It was shockwave that keeps warriors alive during 2nd wind by allowing them to CC off their opponents. If GC wasnt so stupid and biased, hed revert the D Stance nerf, put Shockwave at a far more reasonable 30s, add 15% damage reduction on Battle and Zerker to achieve his goal of warriors not being in D Stance all the time. 15% is just the same as SPriests, Hunters... you know almost everyone else. But no hes an idiot and has made it so warriors are going to be in D Stance even more then on Live; well until they realize they cant be effective in D anymore, cant live outside of D, and just go play rogue!

You have to admit warriors are out of control atm. Their survivability is ridiculous with 2nd wind. Without sufficient dps burst you cant kill one. They will continually shockwave, and let 2nd wind heal them back up. It really is easy mode. Every other class in most cases needs to sacrifice dps time to heal, which in turn costs mana. Except warriors... ezy mode heals that auto trigger plus short stun CDs and insane mobility and burst. They really did need a nerf.

[Valedus]

Hahahaha auto attack damage hahahahahaa. Zerker Rage for the blind. Man you must be playing a private server. Rofl he even defends rogues and mentions stupid imbalances like 25% damage reduction and 20s CD stuns, well Rogues have 30% Damage reduction and their 20s CD stun lasts 50% longer.

And warbringer shockwave is much better then cheap shot kidney shot paralytic.

Again. Kidney. Shot. Takes. Resources. You don't have to save your Zerker Rage for the blind, but you can run around with your thumb in your ass for 8 seconds, I don't really care. And I don't understand what is so "middling" about a nearly auto-crit strike that can't be avoided and is essentially spammable. Don't even get me started on the mongoloid "heroic strike" that for some damn reason isn't on the GCD like every other damage skill in the game.

Also, guess what elusiveness takes? Resources. Guess what else? It's active, instead of just passive herp-derp 25% damage reduction the entire game.

Overpower may not hard-counter a rogue, but you can at least do damage to one who has evasion up. The 30 second trinket and heavy amount of stuns is a bigger deal, though, as a stunned rogue is a dead rogue. It's the same deal with any leather class.

[discoepfeand]

Korgoth, how many weeks into the season is fair to assess how well warriors and rogues are doing? Give us a date and we'll look on crossladder.com and we'll see if warriors are still the top of the list, the bottom of the list, or sitting nicely in the middle at that time. 6 weeks? 10 weeks? I don't think any of us can see the future well enough to know how this will all shake out, but it seems fair to me to pick a time to revisit the topic and see how the classes are doing.

[Darksoldierr]

We have good survivability at the wrong moments. As long as we are able to hit something, our survivability is great. But when we´re CCed there is no surv at all beside a short minor dmg reduction.

Even that dosen't help much against silence, they really should change, so that you are able to use SR / other defensive tools / totems for dps specs when silenced. It wouldn't buff the resto, which is already in good shape, but the other two specs needs desperate help when it comes to live trough burst and lockdown

[Valium104]

Definitely monk. Self heal for 100k crits IN rotation, 4 very powerful cooldowns, highest mobility. Also ability to heal on demand even when moving (healing spheres, saves lives on second boss HoF, along with chi wave).

[Korgoth]

You don't have to save your Zerker Rage for the blind, but you can run around with your thumb in your ass for 8 seconds, I don't really care.

Really. Would someone explain to this guy who obviously doesn't really pvp what is wrong with that statement. I give up.

---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 05:33 PM ----------

Korgoth, how many weeks into the season is fair to assess how well warriors and rogues are doing? Give us a date and we'll look on crossladder.com and we'll see if warriors are still the top of the list, the bottom of the list, or sitting nicely in the middle at that time. 6 weeks? 10 weeks? I don't think any of us can see the future well enough to know how this will all shake out, but it seems fair to me to pick a time to revisit the topic and see how the classes are doing.

Except this was about survivability, not viability or power level. A rogue is less viable in Arena then a warrior on live. A rogue fills a similar role, but their superior CC is outmuscled by warrior damage. As such they are not taken and their rep dwindles, much like Warrior rep did in the previous season.

6 Weeks into next season warrior rep will be under half what it is today, and rogue rep will surpass it. And 12 weeks into the season I suspect Rogue and Warrior Rep will be back to 4.3 levels, 20% Rogue 4% War.

[loki504]

without any healers? gaurdian druids. then problebly blood dk. then prot pala and then brewmaster monks.

but has the most survivability against what? a horde of random players in a random bg? or against casters? with or with out healers? with or without a other to help you out?


there is not 1 ultimate survival melee dps spec/class.

[Delznop]

To answer OP's question, Feral druids and rogues can stay stealthed forever. Thus outlasting any other melee.

[itals]

on live? warriors by far. on ptr? monks > feral (with bubble/dispersion) > warrior > dk = ret = rogue > shaman

[Valedus]

on live? warriors by far. on ptr? monks > feral (with bubble/dispersion) > warrior > dk = ret = rogue > shaman

Ferals are going to be lower than rogues, definitely. You put them way too high on the list. Especially with cyclone nerfed (peeling), All they have is a few cooldowns. After they run out of CD's you are looking at just a leather wearer. Even in bear form they don't get that tanky and they lose like all of their damage output. Unholy with Conversion and Blood Presence is going to be a lot nastier than people think.

[Machomaije]

Wow What? Why do people even mention dks? The survivability dks have is jus... meh

[Valedus]

How is it meh? Unholy can make their healer un-ccable for 30 seconds, has a second wind effect on crack with blood presence which gives them tons of extra health, more CC than frost, especially with Asphyx going to be a 30 second CD, and better Lichborne heals.

Frost DK is a glass cannon, Unholy is resilient as hell and has great sustained pressure with necrotics.

[ipoststuff]

Barkskin could be nerfed. Especially the glyph. As a ret pala it negates all my crit chance on top of the damage reduction and its usable while stunned. The most powerful defensive cd if you ask me.

[Flaks]

Second Wind by itself isn't the issue, its the fact that they can also jump into Defensive Stance. Blizz got it right when they left second wind the way it was and nerfed D stance.

Except they didn't. It doesn't say it in the notes but second wind is automatically nerfed by 30-50% while in pvp combat be it duels, world pvp, arenas or bgs (I haven't personally tested it in pve). As in its not battle fatigue. Its a ninja nerf when warriors are already hurting HARD in 5.2 next to classes that can sustain damage through warrior defensive cds.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 08:37 AM ----------

You have to admit warriors are out of control atm. Their survivability is ridiculous with 2nd wind. Without sufficient dps burst you cant kill one. They will continually shockwave, and let 2nd wind heal them back up. It really is easy mode. Every other class in most cases needs to sacrifice dps time to heal, which in turn costs mana. Except warriors... ezy mode heals that auto trigger plus short stun CDs and insane mobility and burst. They really did need a nerf.

Despite how ridiculous warriors are still in 5.1, I'd put money on the fact that if 5.1 was a fresh new season, warrior rep would be equal to rets, dks and ferals right now. Why? Because contrary to popular belief those other 3 specs are rank 1 viable and DO bring things to the table that warriors don't.

[Valedus]

Barkskin could be nerfed. Especially the glyph. As a ret pala it negates all my crit chance on top of the damage reduction and its usable while stunned. The most powerful defensive cd if you ask me.

Play Feral. It's not as OMG amazing as you think.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 03:13 AM ----------

Except they didn't. It doesn't say it in the notes but second wind is automatically nerfed by 30-50% while in pvp combat be it duels, world pvp, arenas or bgs (I haven't personally tested it in pve). As in its not battle fatigue. Its a ninja nerf when warriors are already hurting HARD in 5.2 next to classes that can sustain damage through warrior defensive cds.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 08:37 AM ----------



Despite how ridiculous warriors are still in 5.1, I'd put money on the fact that if 5.1 was a fresh new season, warrior rep would be equal to rets, dks and ferals right now. Why? Because contrary to popular belief those other 3 specs are rank 1 viable and DO bring things to the table that warriors don't.

Ret rank 1 viable? Did you see the post of current glad rankings? Ret brings nothing that Holy doesn't, so why not just have an Hpal healer and have Arms, the strongest melee, as your melee?