Garrosh's Horde.

[Deleted]

Wait, are we blaming the night elves for the orcs invading night elf territory? That's just idiotic.

Why is it? The Orcs needed resources they did not have.

Night Elves did have resources but did not share.

Orcs invade to take the resources.

While surely not directly to blame for it, the Night elves could have prevented it easily by being diplomatic. Funny how people wish the Horde to be Diplomatic on things, and yet, the Alliance was anything but outside of Jaina.

[Justignoreme]

Obviously Constellation cannot tell the difference between a Horde with a spine, or the Third Riech.

Constellation is as arrogant as the Night Elves he fanboys over.

she*
Please google arrogance. I am agreeing with you after all. What's the matter?

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 05:58 AM ----------

Why is it? The Orcs needed resources they did not have.

Night Elves did have resources but did not share.

Orcs invade to take the resources.

And they should've! I mean really, how is sharing resources without compensation to an unapologetic rival that doesn't respect you bad? they are just a worthless race of garbage, like all Alliance races. How *dare* they. They should be erased from the surface of the planet for their insolence

[Deleted]

The Horde refused to investigate the brutal slaughter of Sentinels that were guarding the lumber caravans being sent to Orgrimmar, killings which involved the Sentinels being skinned and cut apart--and the killings were being pinned on the Horde. That's when the night elves cut off the lumber shipments, which sparked the orcs' invasion.

Even before then, the Warsong were a constant presence in night elf territories stripmining the place, and leaving stacks on stacks on stacks of lumber out to rot. While, yes, the night elves struck the Alliance-Horde coalition first, after Hyjal, ceasefires were drawn up and the night elves joined the Alliance, essentially giving a big reset button to Alliance-Horde relations; the orcs then became the aggressors through allowing the Warsong to continue their operations.

Stacks of Lumber to Rot seems very obviously an Alliance flavor hyperbole.

If it was being left to Rot, why was it so in demand?

[Thage]

Why is it? The Orcs needed resources they did not have.

Night Elves did have resources but did not share.

Read The Shattering. The night elves were sending regular lumber shipments to Orgrimmar before the Sentinel killings that the Horde flat-out refused to investigate.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 12:59 AM ----------

Stacks of Lumber to Rot seems very obviously an Alliance flavor hyperbole.

If it was being left to Rot, why was it so in demand?

If it was being used, why are the same stacks from 8 years ago still sitting around in the post-Cataclysm Ashenvale? Quests even more or less came right out and said that the orcs were cutting more than they needed and leaving the leftover lumber there to rot to piss the night elves off as a giant fuck-you.

[Deleted]

she*
Please google arrogance. I am agreeing with you after all. What's the matter?

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 05:58 AM ----------

And they should've! I mean really, how is sharing resources without compensation to an unapologetic rival that doesn't respect you bad? they are just a worthless race of garbage, like all Alliance races. How *dare* they. They should be erased from the surface of the planet for their insolence

Like I give a shit if you're a woman or a man.

You hark on about how EVIL and BAD and RAPIST the Orcs are for invading Ashenvale.

Tell me then, in a serious answer ; What else could have the Horde done?

[Justignoreme]

Stacks of Lumber to Rot seems very obviously an Alliance flavor hyperbole.

If it was being left to Rot, why was it so in demand?

Do the quests in Ashenvale and ask cdev? They wrote that too...

[Deleted]

Read The Shattering. The night elves were sending regular lumber shipments to Orgrimmar before the Sentinel killings that the Horde flat-out refused to investigate.

I refuse to believe this is how it's worded. And if it is, it goes against everything else said in the games.

[Wyrt]

Why is it? The Orcs needed resources they did not have.

Night Elves did have resources but did not share.

Orcs invade to take the resources.

While surely not directly to blame for it, the Night elves could have prevented it easily by being diplomatic. Funny how people wish the Horde to be Diplomatic on things, and yet, the Alliance was anything but outside of Jaina.

You know who else has resources? Every other horde race. None of them were starving, hell they even sent food and water to Orgrimmar. Maybe instead of expecting their enemies to feed them and provide wood for their war machines they should rely on their allies.

[Deleted]

Do the quests in Ashenvale and ask cdev? They wrote that too...

Care to point out this Cdev?

If it was going to rot, why was shipments still needed to be sent?

[Thage]

I refuse to believe this is how it's worded. And if it is, it goes against everything else said in the games.

Really? Because that's exactly what happened. Thrall refused to investigate the killings because he didn't want to appear to be kowtowing to the Alliance, and Garrosh claimed that if he'd ordered the killings himself he'd have shouted from the rooftops that he had done so, and proudly, when Cairne accused him. Again, no investigation was carried out.

Whether you believe what was put down in the book or not kind of doesn't matter.

edit: As an aside, not everyone who points out what the Warsong were doing are Alliance-biased. I've always been vocal about my dislike of both factions for more than half a decade now; it just so happens that since Wrath Garrosh and his supporters have been grabbing the "Saturday Morning Villain" ball pretty hard whereas the Alliance is generally only guilty of being douchebags.

[Justignoreme]

Like I give a shit if you're a woman or a man.

You hark on about how EVIL and BAD and RAPIST the Orcs are for invading Ashenvale.

Tell me then, in a serious answer ; What else could have the Horde done?

Deposed Thrall early on for being a horrible warchief and lapdog for the Alliance by actually negotiating with them and keeping the peace. Killed the Night Elves off earlier for expecting money or exchanged resources for the crap they should've been tributing to the Horde. Invaded Stormwind and put Varian Wrynn down then annihilate the Alliance entirely. The Alliance isn't needed to defeat anything in the storyline; all the lorekills went to the Horde after all.

[Deleted]

You know who else has resources? Every other horde race. None of them were starving, hell they even sent food and water to Orgrimmar. Maybe instead of expecting their enemies to feed them and provide wood for their war machines they should rely on their allies.

Obviously if they got the supplies but needed more, there was a bigger requirement needed. There is no huge breadbasket like Westfall for the Horde.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 06:03 AM ----------

Deposed Thrall early on for being a horrible warchief and lapdog for the Alliance by actually negotiating with them and keeping the peace. Killed the Night Elves off earlier for expecting money or exchanged resources for the crap they should've been tributing to the Horde. Invaded Stormwind and put Varian Wrynn down then annihilate the Alliance entirely. The Alliance isn't needed to defeat anything in the storyline; all the lorekills went to the Horde after all.

Yeah, nice serious answer.


Oh wait, you're acting like a stubborn Manchild because you can't think of a decent answer at all.

You want the Horde to be that scruffy band of outcasts who kinda did nothing at all don't you?

[Wyrt]

Obviously if they got the supplies but needed more, there was a bigger requirement needed. There is no huge breadbasket like Westfall for the Horde.

Because the horde is too retarded to know how to farm.

[Justignoreme]

I refuse to believe this is how it's worded. And if it is, it goes against everything else said in the games.

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=26457

Now, the orcs are cutting more wood than they can possibly use, leaving it to rot while their blades bite into fresh trees! This is an affront to all we stand for, <name>, and we will show them that we'll not suffer further destruction of our lands!

please get off your one-sided duff and play the other side. Not just feign interest and respect in them as some sort of validation for your endless trashing of them.


wait nvm, it was a night elf quest giver and she's a lying Alliance bitch.

[Deleted]

Really? Because that's exactly what happened. Thrall refused to investigate the killings because he didn't want to appear to be kowtowing to the Alliance, and Garrosh claimed that if he'd ordered the killings himself he'd have shouted from the rooftops that he had done so, and proudly, when Cairne accused him. Again, no investigation was carried out.

Whether you believe what was put down in the book or not kind of doesn't matter.

Fine me the Quote then, because Honestly?

If the Night Elves WERE giving lumber to the Horde, Does that not contradict the whole point of the Warsong Lumber operations in the first place?

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 06:05 AM ----------

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=26457

Now, the orcs are cutting more wood than they can possibly use, leaving it to rot while their blades bite into fresh trees! This is an affront to all we stand for, <name>, and we will show them that we'll not suffer further destruction of our lands!

please get off your one-sided duff and play the other side. Not just feign interest and respect in them as some sort of validation for your endless trashing of them.


wait nvm, it was a night elf quest giver and she's a lying Alliance bitch.

Because NPCS can never have favoritism.

Cutting down one tree is probably too much for them.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 06:06 AM ----------

Because the horde is too retarded to know how to farm.

Only farms they could cultivate are Pork Farms in Durotar and Barrens.

[Justignoreme]

Yeah, nice serious answer.

Oh wait, you're acting like a stubborn Manchild because you can't think of a decent answer at all.

You want the Horde to be that scruffy band of outcasts who kinda did nothing at all don't you?

It was a very serious answer. Did you miss the Thrall bashing threads? You yourself said Thrall returning would be WORSE than Garrosh. You're the one calling me names and then expecting a "serious answer". I gave them already, in the past. I'm not going to waste my breathe arguing nonsense with a pigheaded Horde fanboi. It's easier to just agree with them and watch them get livid when I single in on their rallying cries with lore as it is.

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 06:08 AM ----------

Fine me the Quote then, because Honestly?

If the Night Elves WERE giving lumber to the Horde, Does that not contradict the whole point of the Warsong Lumber operations in the first place?

The Warsong didn't care about anything or any one but themselves. How do you miss that? LOL that's common knowledge. I thought you knew you're lore. You only know what you want to know

Because NPCS can never have favoritism.

Cutting down one tree is probably too much for them.

Ikr, my mistake. I forgot she's an exaggerating, lying Alliance bitch NPC, not an honest, proud, and infallable, 100% unbiased Horde npc. More reason to slaughter the Alliance from the game. They exaggerate and make shit up.

[Wyrt]

Only farms they could cultivate are Pork Farms in Durotar and Barrens.

Mulgore is probably good farmland. The horde just took Hillsbrad, maybe they should have used it as a damn farm instead of spreading plague all over it.

[Mormolyce]

Thrall lead them to Shamanistic routes, but Not all Orcs were Shaman, They were Hunters, Warriors. He seeks peace, a worthy aspect, but he kept the Orcs and Horde bottled in, or tried to. As evidence, Garrosh shows that the Orcs needed the resources of Ashenvale.

And while he lead them out of the internment camps, he kept them under HIS ideals of Peace, Peace when Alliance sit on your doorstep in Fortresses, who destroy your camps to look for trinkets in the ground, and who threaten you at every turn.

Thrall was so Adamant on wanting Peace, he held the Horde back for what it should be doing, Forging Peace with it's own hands, and proving to all others that they should not be pushed around.

The Horde was fighting Night Elves for lumber in Ashenvale in Thrall's time. Garrosh just stepped up the offensive.

The rest is just your opinion.

Part of me wishes Garrosh was sticking around instead of getting canned in the final raid of MoP. I felt in Cataclysm we had some good character development in respect to Garrosh learning and growing into his station. It feels like cutting it short by just molding him into a common enemy by having him regress to his old habits when in Cataclysm, in my opinion, we saw some if a little promise of Garrosh becoming a more fair minded leader.

Well, yes and no. Frankly his portrayal has been all over the place.

I don't think he's actually dying at the end of MoP though.

[The Madgod]

Sitting in the desert did the Orcs nothing, it watched them slowly die away and their proud culture stagnate.

Another Thrall would be worse than Garrosh, a symbol of subservience for the Horde not to look up to, but to feel looked down Upon.

The Horde is a united faction of Outcasts, united by a purpose to be strong together and protected together. The Horde is Family, and Family should look out for it's own first.

Your idea of Thrall and his teachings is... pretty bad, quite honestly.

For one thing, like Morm said, the orcs under Thrall had a cultural rebirth, going back to their shamanistic roots (and before you repeat yourself, even warriors and hunters were part of that culture. It's not class based >.>)

Thrall, a symbol of subservience? Not in the slightest. He freed the orcs from both their physical prisons and their mental chains. He, along with Grom Hellscream (mostly Hellscream), freed the orcs from their blood curse. Saying that Thrall is a symbol of subservience is like saying that Sylvanas is a symbol of love and kindness.

A symbol of inaction? A better choice of words. I agree that was a flaw of his in the earlier parts of World of Warcraft, that he saw certain potential threats and he didn't act on them in a very direct manor. Of course, he does act on some of them, but diplomatically... which failed, unfortunately. Direct threats, like Proudmoore, he DID fight.

[Justignoreme]

Mulgore is probably good farmland. The horde just took Hillsbrad, maybe they should have used it as a damn farm instead of spreading plague all over it.

How dare you suggest a noble and proud Orc walk across the treacherous Barrens to grow food in the shadow of those untrustworthy Tauren!!!

---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 06:10 AM ----------

I'd stop it with the sarcasm, if I were you.

Why? I'm tired of going over a broken record with the same thickheaded people who aren't interested in hearing an opposing viewpoint, but just screaming in their echo chamber. Give me an infraction if you want. The bias and ignorance of the story is unreal. Forgive me for taking it and running with it, as they would...