Rise of The Hutt Cartel: First Digital Expansion

[Redblade]

You really think they've been working on the ui for 1 year? We have no idea how long they did anything, I'd say they haven't done anything after they introduced the UI custom tool.

Of course I don't think they worked on it for a year, that's my complaint that they didn't work on it for the past year, to be able to move large chunks of the UI was a decent start back then but far from a viable solution to the horrible UI issue.

The majority of players didn't leave because of the UI, they left because promised open PvP wasn't working and Endgame PvE was bugged and I think we can all agree that it's much more annoying if you have to clear trash before the pylons 3-4 times just because they are bugged... again.

I know why people left, I can tell you that the horrible UI surely didn't help to keep any players though, even if it wasn't their primary reason for leaving.

If you don't like to look on the bottom, move your personal stat window to the top and switch the buffs/ debuffs from top to bottom.

If you look at my screens you would see that it's not a solution...

I can say that you couldn't play EQ2 content with this ui because no heal overlay, you have to click on the name to start healing the person, buff icons too small (which has been fixed now). However you just don't have the kind of content which would force you to have it to begin with.

Why does content have to dictate having a functioning UI?

There is no harm to learn an encounter, starting with the tactic and ending with whatever debuff is doing what, apart from knowing what kind of buff/ debuff is doing what class. Raider don't have an issue with it, they do however with bugs/ lags.

There is no harm in learning what visual effect means what either, same as there is no harm in playing the game only ever using two buttons. Doesn't mean it's a good way of doing things nor that it's enjoyable to everyone. And raiders do have issues with lack of clear representation of information within their UI, being a raider I know this for a fact, same as they have issues with bugs and lag, one does not exclude the other.

Over a year after release of a AAA MMO you would expect both lag and bugs to be under control to an acceptable level as well as having a UI that offers comfortable experience playing the game at any level, especially taking in to consideration how horrible the UI was at launch.

[Psychlon]

Of course I don't think they worked on it for a year, that's my complaint that they didn't work on it for the past year, to be able to move large chunks of the UI was a decent start back then but far from a viable solution to the horrible UI issue.

Don't get me wrong, they could make everything adjustable however I think it makes people care less/ pay less attention and with it making content more boring.

I know why people left, I can tell you that the horrible UI surely didn't help to keep any players though, even if it wasn't their primary reason for leaving.

The release ui was terrible, still, we didn't have the large drop off right then nor because of the ui which makes it less of a reason why a lot of people left the game.

If you look at my screens you would see that it's not a solution...

I can't see any of your pics, it doesn't even indicate that there should be a pic.

Why does content have to dictate having a functioning UI?

The ui is working as it is, simplifying/ making it easier to use and therefor having less of a trouble to see stuff/ react to things is making content easier. Like having big red letters across your screen, telling you to move in 5 seconds to your left or to enable macros to really only press 1 button and your char is running its rotation. This (as you can see in WoW) leads to a point where content has to be made more and more difficult because there is no challenge anymore. If the UI leads you through a fight, does it make the fight more enjoyable or does it make it just more dull because the only time you have to use your brain is when you roll for loot.

There is no harm in learning what visual effect means what either, same as there is no harm in playing the game only ever using two buttons. Doesn't mean it's a good way of doing things nor that it's enjoyable to everyone. And raiders do have issues with lack of clear representation of information within their UI, being a raider I know this for a fact, same as they have issues with bugs and lag, one does not exclude the other.

I'm raiding in SWTOR since release as Tank/ Healer and DD and I've never heard anyone complaining about the ui after they made it invidiually adjustable.[/QUOTE]

Over a year after release of a AAA MMO you would expect both lag and bugs to be under control to an acceptable level as well as having a UI that offers comfortable experience playing the game at any level, especially taking in to consideration how horrible the UI was at launch.

I'd prefer they make warzones with 30fps+ available to everyone instead of having my debuffs on a individual window which I couldn't care less because I just had another drop down to 5 fps, making my pull worthless because the opponent just visually jumped from past the acid pit into my endzone.

[Redblade]

The release ui was terrible, still, we didn't have the large drop off right then nor because of the ui which makes it less of a reason why a lot of people left the game.

Minor issues pile up quickly though and helps push you over the edge once a larger issue comes in to play.

I can't see any of your pics, it doesn't even indicate that there should be a pic.

Silly me to assume you had read the thread, I'll make the effort again though, WoW DPS, WoW Healer, Rift DPS...

The ui is working as it is, simplifying/ making it easier to use and therefor having less of a trouble to see stuff/ react to things is making content easier. Like having big red letters across your screen, telling you to move in 5 seconds to your left or to enable macros to really only press 1 button and your char is running its rotation. This (as you can see in WoW) leads to a point where content has to be made more and more difficult because there is no challenge anymore. If the UI leads you through a fight, does it make the fight more enjoyable or does it make it just more dull because the only time you have to use your brain is when you roll for loot.

Now you are confusing the ability to clearly present your buffs, debuffs and ability timers with full scale boss mod addons, they are not the same. Why do you think it's fair that some one that's comfortable with and used to having the default EQ/WoW style UI positions should have that advantage over others that don't feel comfortable with that layout, one group clearly has an easier time to play the game, something you seem to be against...

I'm raiding in SWTOR since release as Tank/ Healer and DD and I've never heard anyone complaining about the ui after they made it invidiually adjustable.

That's cool but really doesn't refute anything as I'm a raider and I took issue with them, hence a simply fact that raiders took issue with it (and to be fair others that I played with had similar complaints).

I'd prefer they make warzones with 30fps+ available to everyone instead of having my debuffs on a individual window which I couldn't care less because I just had another drop down to 5 fps, making my pull worthless because the opponent just visually jumped from past the acid pit into my endzone.

So we should have the game developed to cater primarily to your needs? The fact remains that they are making changes to the UI for the second time and still not sorting out the issues with the UI which at the end of the day is horribly inefficient and more than likely a reason why the development of the game is snail paced.

There is a reason most developers do big overhauls when they do decide to go back and change major elements of the game.

[Psychlon]

Minor issues pile up quickly though and helps push you over the edge once a larger issue comes in to play.

minor issue, that's what it is so can they fix major issues first like Jamos (I think) was suggesting?

Silly me to assume you had read the thread, I'll make the effort again though, WoW DPS, WoW Healer, Rift DPS...

I haven't seen your links which doesn't mean that I didn't read the thread. Looking at them... it would have been more beneficial to take your swtor layout and show what you want to change as you can't expect other people to play/ understand other mmo's.

As for swtor... taking EC as example... for the first fight, as dd there is only one enemy dot which you really have to pay attention to, one. For a sorc dd, there are two dots you have to pay attention to, apart from your trigger buffs. Again... doesn't seem to be such a big effort to make it necessary to show these 3 buffs to me to make the fight more enjoyable.

Now you are confusing the ability to clearly present your buffs, debuffs and ability timers with full scale boss mod addons, they are not the same. Why do you think it's fair that some one that's comfortable with and used to having the default EQ/WoW style UI positions should have that advantage over others that don't feel comfortable with that layout, one group clearly has an easier time to play the game, something you seem to be against...

Buffs/ debuffs are too small, they are however clearly presented to you. I would agree with you if all your buffs/ debuffs would be on the same side or if you couldn't see debuffs on the mob but you can. How many debuffs are on a mob constantly? In EQ2, I had 20-30+, I don't see this in SWTOR and you didn't even have anything you want for SWTOR in EQ2. You had the same responsibility to track your debuffs/ reapply as soon as they wear off.

I do think however, the easier you make it to react, the easier you make the fight and the harder future content has to be made by the developer.

That's cool but really doesn't refute anything as I'm a raider and I took issue with them, hence a simply fact that raiders took issue with it (and to be fair others that I played with had similar complaints).

So you and your people took issue, me and "my" people didn't... what does it say about the issue at hand? Just to be clear... our raider are mostly from WoW.

So we should have the game developed to cater primarily to your needs? The fact remains that they are making changes to the UI for the second time and still not sorting out the issues with the UI which at the end of the day is horribly inefficient and more than likely a reason why the development of the game is snail paced.

There is a reason most developers do big overhauls when they do decide to go back and change major elements of the game.

Frankly I'm fairly certain that thousands of people have this issue, not just me and I think we don't need to talk about the fps in this game on high end machines (which is kinda horrible).

They do make changes which are changes in the right direction and that doesn't mean that they won't ever do changes again. I wish their countless "performance" fixes would finally show up on the screen and not only in their patchnotes.

[Redblade]

minor issue, that's what it is so can they fix major issues first like Jamos (I think) was suggesting?

But they have done neither as far as I can tell, in fact they seem to have done very little at all since I left.

I haven't seen your links which doesn't mean that I didn't read the thread. Looking at them... it would have been more beneficial to take your swtor layout and show what you want to change as you can't expect other people to play/ understand other mmo's.

I think it's fairly clear going by those screens that I center the information that's important to me around my character in some way close to the center of the screen...

As far as changing my SWTOR layout, first of all I'd need new skins to be able to remove all unnecessary fluff of the UI elements, personally definable buff/debuff tracker that you can position where ever you want, ability timers that can be moved and grouped how ever you want, or more ability bars that can be better defined to fill that purpose. That's about what I can think of with a minutes notice.

As for swtor... taking EC as example... for the first fight, as dd there is only one enemy dot which you really have to pay attention to, one. For a sorc dd, there are two dots you have to pay attention to, apart from your trigger buffs. Again... doesn't seem to be such a big effort to make it necessary to show these 3 buffs to me to make the fight more enjoyable.

If you have to pay attention to it your focus needs to be at the buff frame, why do you think it's acceptable that the players focus needs to be there over where the character is?

And it's not about what you think is needed to make the fight enjoyable, if you are happy with the way it is then be happy about that, why should the rest of us suffer because you are happy with the way it is?

Buffs/ debuffs are too small, they are however clearly presented to you. I would agree with you if all your buffs/ debuffs would be on the same side or if you couldn't see debuffs on the mob but you can. How many debuffs are on a mob constantly? In EQ2, I had 20-30+, I don't see this in SWTOR and you didn't even have anything you want for SWTOR in EQ2. You had the same responsibility to track your debuffs/ reapply as soon as they wear off.

Stop comparing to a game released in 2004, like really...

Lets say you raid with 15 other people and 4 other damage dealers have the same debuff on the boss, why is it unfair to expect to be able to differentiate yours from the others? And again, why should I have to look at the bottom or the top of my screen to keep track of it?

I do think however, the easier you make it to react, the easier you make the fight and the harder future content has to be made by the developer.

But that's the point, not everyone are comfortable with the same layouts, what you are saying is that only the once that are comfortable with the default way is supposed to be able to have the normal experience, the rest needs to play a harder version of the encounters because the developer is to incompitent to make features that tons of WoW addon developers can...

Also if you need to create artificial difficulty through lack of clear presentation of information within your UI then it's probably time to think of a different career.

So you and your people took issue, me and "my" people didn't... what does it say about the issue at hand? Just to be clear... our raider are mostly from WoW.

It says that my people cared more about the presentation fo the UI than yours, nothing more, nothing less...

And just to be clear I also played WoW mostly, in realm first progression guilds where good UI placements and information during the fight can mean the difference between a kill and a wipe.

Frankly I'm fairly certain that thousands of people have this issue, not just me and I think we don't need to talk about the fps in this game on high end machines (which is kinda horrible).

They do make changes which are changes in the right direction and that doesn't mean that they won't ever do changes again. I wish their countless "performance" fixes would finally show up on the screen and not only in their patchnotes.

If they had focused on one thing at the time per dev team and actually fixed issues once and for all perhaps they could have got more things done. Still a year plus down the line it feels like they are still trying to play catch up.

[Psychlon]

If you have to pay attention to it your focus needs to be at the buff frame, why do you think it's acceptable that the players focus needs to be there over where the character is?

And it's not about what you think is needed to make the fight enjoyable, if you are happy with the way it is then be happy about that, why should the rest of us suffer because you are happy with the way it is?

Frankly, the reason that you want specific buffs/ debuffs shown leads me to believe that you need "more" help to track what's going on while others can read whatever information they need off the current layout. Why don't you just argue then that you have problems with the tracking part and would like to have more individuality than making it sound as it is totally necessary to play the game.

Stop comparing to a game released in 2004, like really...

Lets say you raid with 15 other people and 4 other damage dealers have the same debuff on the boss, why is it unfair to expect to be able to differentiate yours from the others? And again, why should I have to look at the bottom or the top of my screen to keep track of it?

You got lost on the "Everyqest 2" part where as the information was that I had more than 30 debuffs on a mob at all times and while I'm not saying that this is how it is supposed to be... people could still track the information they needed.

But that's the point, not everyone are comfortable with the same layouts, what you are saying is that only the once that are comfortable with the default way is supposed to be able to have the normal experience, the rest needs to play a harder version of the encounters because the developer is to incompitent to make features that tons of WoW addon developers can...

Also if you need to create artificial difficulty through lack of clear presentation of information within your UI then it's probably time to think of a different career.

In case you play the game since release, we've had the same time to adapt. The reason that you are still around shows that it can't be such a major issue to you.

The original argument was that they should have implemented it long ago and the ui is years behind any other AA or AAA game (by kittyvicious). I don't see it as such a big issue and I'm just talking about myself however on the list what things Bioware has to fix/ add... UI layouts are not in the top 10 = not as important = ont he backburner = will be eventually taken care of later and while everyone seems to believe that stuff like this can be done in under 1-2 seconds and be in complete disbelieve that it's not in yet.... there is no reason for Bioware not to add it in case they had enough feedback and it's f***ing easy to implement.

It says that my people cared more about the presentation fo the UI than yours, nothing more, nothing less...

It means that it is a fairly small sample to make any assumptions. You jumped from "everyone" to "raider" to "my raidgroup".... , if really everyone wants it you can be sure that there would be at least a handful of threads here and on the official forum concerned only with it.

And just to be clear I also played WoW mostly, in realm first progression guilds where good UI placements and information during the fight can mean the difference between a kill and a wipe.

Do they mean the difference in SWTOR? Did they mean the difference for other people?




TL;DR more customization is always welcome but I'd rather they put their time on real issues than individual needs.

[Redblade]

Frankly, the reason that you want specific buffs/ debuffs shown leads me to believe that you need "more" help to track what's going on while others can read whatever information they need off the current layout. Why don't you just argue then that you have problems with the tracking part and would like to have more individuality than making it sound as it is totally necessary to play the game.

I don't need it, I want it to be able to play the game properly and focus on what's important, not some 10x10 pixels at the lower end of my 24" widescreen...something that really isn't to much to ask from a EQ clone MMO released post 2010.

You got lost on the "Everyqest 2" part where as the information was that I had more than 30 debuffs on a mob at all times and while I'm not saying that this is how it is supposed to be... people could still track the information they needed.

So?

People could live like cavemen as well...

In case you play the game since release, we've had the same time to adapt. The reason that you are still around shows that it can't be such a major issue to you.

I quit ages ago, I only took note of this thread as it was on my subscription list from me posting like way back...

The original argument was that they should have implemented it long ago and the ui is years behind any other AA or AAA game (by kittyvicious). I don't see it as such a big issue and I'm just talking about myself however on the list what things Bioware has to fix/ add... UI layouts are not in the top 10 = not as important = ont he backburner = will be eventually taken care of later and while everyone seems to believe that stuff like this can be done in under 1-2 seconds and be in complete disbelieve that it's not in yet.... there is no reason for Bioware not to add it in case they had enough feedback and it's f***ing easy to implement.

Never said it was easy but they had well over a year to sort it now, and the UI was one of the top complaints back at release...and no the change to be able to move things didn't fix it, it acted as a band aid.

It means that it is a fairly small sample to make any assumptions. You jumped from "everyone" to "raider" to "my raidgroup".... , if really everyone wants it you can be sure that there would be at least a handful of threads here and on the official forum concerned only with it.

No I didn't say everyone, not in the way you are trying to twist it...

But hey if you think you can find a sizeable portion of the player base that would be against it's addition lets see em...

Do they mean the difference in SWTOR? Did they mean the difference for other people?

I'm sure they can mean that very difference at top end progression yes, and yes it did matter for other people as well as my self. I'm sure you could do a survey among WoW players on this site and see how many would find progression raiding unacceptably punishing with only the default UI if you wanted a better understanding of it's values.

TL;DR more customization is always welcome but I'd rather they put their time on real issues than individual needs.

As long as your individual needs are met right? Because that's really what you are saying when you dismiss this issue in favor of what you deem worthy of their time.

[Razael]

I agree with Redblade, people need to stop comparing games from 9 / 10 years ago to SWTOR which by all means is a recent-ish game. When i buy a game from 2011/2012/2013 i expect the game to have the improvements made over the years by other games, not make a game that plays like its from a decade ago.
The same applies to new MMOs. I expect a LFG, Barber shop, Server transfers, UI Customization , Achievement tracking and all the perks other games made over the years.
Its not too much too ask. SWTOR launched without too many features. Theres some of those i could do without, but theres also people who will think its essencial to them, so expect a MMO to have everything so the game is as good as possible at launch or soon after.

[RoninaThorstone]

If you are looking for an mmo to compare it to, rift is the closest example. It came out only two years ago.

I am not going to go into examples of gvg or w/e. You guys can do your own research.

[WarpedAcorn]

The amount of content in Rift is staggering...seriously. They have so many things that's its mind boggling compared to other MMO's. I just wish their PvP didn't suck, otherwise I would have kept playing.

[Razael]

If you are looking for an mmo to compare it to, rift is the closest example. It came out only two years ago.

I am not going to go into examples of gvg or w/e. You guys can do your own research.

Yep that would be the game i compare SWTOR to. Unfortunatly SWTOR doesn't look so good after doing it.

[dirk123]

I just want them continuing making player character STORY progression.
Yet they only focus on endgame/pvp now.

What happened to the "this game will be KotOR 3-9" statement they made? Last time I checked "KotOR" was about YOUR character progession in the story.

They should just make a REAL KotOR 3 imo, and let those who only crave end game/pvp have the mmo.

[Deleted]

1) I just want them continuing making player character STORY progression.
Yet they only focus on endgame/pvp now.

2) What happened to the "this game will be KotOR 3-9" statement they made? Last time I checked "KotOR" was about YOUR character progession in the story.

3) They should just make a REAL KotOR 3 imo, and let those who only crave end game/pvp have the mmo.

1) As much as I love the Operations ingame I'd love for BW to stick to story content. Well, at least give us more 'story' to chew on. Makeb is supposed to satisfy that desire but the proof is in the pudding...and apparently it's still being baked.

2) Tbf for me TOR was Kotor 3-9. Kotor had about 30 hours of content on one playthrough. TOR has roughly 6-8 times as much once you consider all the 8 class stories. It's not an exact fit I know but for avid Kotor fans there is a lot in TOR to like. I just hope BW will keep introducing more (Chapter 4 is cool but it's 2 stories instead of 8).

3) I doubt it will happen. I prefer they use the talent required to make a quality Kotor 3 and put that content into TOR instead.

[moff]

I just want them continuing making player character STORY progression.
Yet they only focus on endgame/pvp now.

What happened to the "this game will be KotOR 3-9" statement they made? Last time I checked "KotOR" was about YOUR character progession in the story.

They should just make a REAL KotOR 3 imo, and let those who only crave end game/pvp have the mmo.

I agree
but a good operation or a new warzone will probably keep people playing longer for the same or less effort than a new story chapter.
but I am also very very disappointed that makeb does not offer new story chapters, makeb doesnt really interest me, but with character story I would have been VERY excited about this "expansion". not so much now.

[Kelimbror]

As long as your individual needs are met right? Because that's really what you are saying when you dismiss this issue in favor of what you deem worthy of their time.

Just to warn you, this guy is like a mini BenBos except he tries to pretend like he's not. It's probably easier to use the beautiful ignore feature

The amount of content in Rift is staggering...seriously. They have so many things that's its mind boggling compared to other MMO's. I just wish their PvP didn't suck, otherwise I would have kept playing.

Well it's not just content though...it's all these other things we're talking about right now. UI features, all the 'extras' that people seem to think don't warrant leaving a game over.

Even LotRO has a more progressive default UI and the ability to use addons to make the game a lot more enjoyable...and that game, which has been F2P with a small dev team for years, is still light years ahead of what we get in SWTOR. I don't understand how people can just dismiss it as a non issue or think that because they are woring on content they can't solidly fix other things.

[WarpedAcorn]

I agree
but a good operation or a new warzone will probably keep people playing longer for the same or less effort than a new story chapter.
but I am also very very disappointed that makeb does not offer new story chapters, makeb doesnt really interest me, but with character story I would have been VERY excited about this "expansion". not so much now.

I would really like to see a new chapter of the character story, but I am also okay with them just doing planetary arcs. Truth be told, the personal stories are wrapped up very nicely by the end of Chapter 3. I don't really feel like I *need* any more personal story to have a satisfying ending. They would be nice, but I would hate for them to be small and rushed. The nice thing about having 3 Chapters of Personal Story was that the character really got to develop. I have a feeling a Personal Story taking place over the course of a single planet would feel wasted and worthless. At best we would feel unsatisfied. A Planetary arc, if done well, would be nice though...especially if the planetary arc had multiple paths to completion.

[RoninaThorstone]

I would really like to see a new chapter of the character story, but I am also okay with them just doing planetary arcs. Truth be told, the personal stories are wrapped up very nicely by the end of Chapter 3. I don't really feel like I *need* any more personal story to have a satisfying ending. They would be nice, but I would hate for them to be small and rushed. The nice thing about having 3 Chapters of Personal Story was that the character really got to develop. I have a feeling a Personal Story taking place over the course of a single planet would feel wasted and worthless. At best we would feel unsatisfied. A Planetary arc, if done well, would be nice though...especially if the planetary arc had multiple paths to completion.

idk... I felt like my agents story had just begun to unfold. It was epic.

And JK personal story was obviously intended to continue.

[Deleted]

idk... I felt like my agents story had just begun to unfold. It was epic.

And JK personal story was obviously intended to continue.

Agree.

I have nothing concrete to go on but I vaguely remember DE saying they had 'years' worth of writing done still to be implemented ingame. I remember thinking how cool it would be to have chapters 4, 5 and 6 for each class and the disappointment when it was datamined that Chapter 4 was faction only and that class stories wouldn't go forward in Makeb. Now, the non-cynical part of me thinks the class stories will go forward sometime in the future but whether i'll still be playing then is very unlikely.

[WarpedAcorn]

And JK personal story was obviously intended to continue.

How so? You just "defeated" the Emperor and were granted Master status. Any further missions would require A LOT more than something that could be told on a planetary arc. Same thing for the Agent, who becomes a more behind-the-scenes power player.

[RoninaThorstone]

How so? You just "defeated" the Emperor and were granted Master status. Any further missions would require A LOT more than something that could be told on a planetary arc. Same thing for the Agent, who becomes a more behind-the-scenes power player.

And even the sith guy (forget his name, typing on the go) is like "that wasn't the end of this fight." or something. It's heavily implied, and confirmed in SW line, that the emp is not dead and that you will have to fight him again if sith guy is right.

As to agent, what about the behind the scene power plays? I figure I would be building my own CIA kind of like the SI story where you built a following and shit. Its kind of crazy that the next stop in my agents career is to just like... go do hutt stuff like everyone else in the galaxy. It's just not super plausiable that I would go all rank and file after that. How would I even help the imps on makeb? I don't know. I've got a very wait and see feeling about this "everyone is doing the same planet quests and it will some how make sense" because all our stories sent us on very very very differnt trajectories.