Patch 5.2 PvP, Frost or Unholy?

[Deleted]

Hi guys.

So with the new patch a week away and the buffs we are getting in 5.2, I am curious about which pvp spec will be the best to start the new season in.

Currently I am Frost but I am giving serious thought to going Unholy in 5.2.
With the changes of PS delivering both diseases and IT on Reaping for dispel and providing death runes for Necrotics the spec is rapidly looking good .

What is the general consensus from those who are testing on PTR? How do Unholy and Frost compare for PvP in BGs and Arena?

[Neave]

as of latest PTR build-
I think Unholy will really be pulling ahead. for PVE and PVP.

our diseases will be much stronger (+60% +15% dmg), which gives a little more flexibility than frost. Unholy Frenzy (3 min CD) gives you, your ghoul, and Gargoyle (3 min CD) 20% haste too. Gargoyle being free now is much more realistic for PVP than costing 60 RP.
and like you said, the Reaping change with Icy Touch (and Plague Strike) make it even better.

four things a lot of people overlook is the passive +15% strength we have versus a +20% strength 1min CD for Frost, Gargoyle will benefit from Mastery, Unholy pres has the run speed increase (+15%), and Death Pact is (a little bit) more accessible on demand.

our pets can keep the DPS going if we're outrun or otherwise out of range, and you can macro your pets stun and charge ability (1 min CD each) to work like a standard stun/charge with Leap as a immobilizer during Dark Transformation. combine this with Asphyxiate (30 sec CD), Glyph of IBF to break stuns (1.5 min CD), and Remorseless or Desecrated Ground (1 min CD) - we have more control than ever, really


I havent pvp'ed much in MoP or the PTR but I remember in Cata one of my biggest gripes was making sure there was never an active Frost or Blood rune for long by managing Festering Stike - but that's no more. that could get clunky sometimes.

[Nangz]

as of latest PTR build-
I

our diseases will be much stronger (+60% +15% dmg), which gives a little more flexibility than frost.

four things a lot of people overlook is the passive +15% strength we have versus a +20% strength 1min CD for Frost,

You can't compare abilities in a vacuum like that. While unholy has more powerful diseases, frost has HB which keeps us balanced for aoe.

And pillar vs our passive isn't right because we have other cooldowns.

[Neave]

You can't compare abilities in a vacuum like that. While unholy has more powerful diseases, frost has HB which keeps us balanced for aoe.

if you're being outrun or are out of range, Howling Blast wont be as useful or flexible like diseases can.

You can't compare abilities in a vacuum like that. And pillar vs our passive isn't right because we have other cooldowns.

Its not a exactly a comparison Unholy Might > Pillar. i said it's something that a lot of people overlook and forget to consider.

also, what cooldowns does Frost have that Unholy doesnt that you're referring too? except Pillar

[Vastas]

as of latest PTR build-


our pets can keep the DPS going if we're outrun or otherwise out of range, and you can macro your pets stun and charge ability (1 min CD each) to work like a standard stun/charge with Leap as a immobilizer during Dark Transformation. combine this with Asphyxiate (30 sec CD), Glyph of IBF to break stuns (1.5 min CD), and Remorseless or Desecrated Ground (1 min CD) - we have more control than ever, really

I think this cuts to the core of it - a buff to Unholy dmg across the board will allow UH DKs to more effectively ramp up constant pressure and control games - largely ignored at the moment because of the burst-centric state of the game and Frost's suitability for this role.

[PowerGamez]

Definitely UH. It will be extremely strong if played well and completely annihilate casters. We still can get absolutely trucked but having a good dps partner to peel is huge.

[Rorke]

Unholy is going to be better for Arena and dueling.

Frost is still better at Random BG's and Rated Bg's.

[Tojara]

Unholy is good now. The QoL changes and buffs cement it as the #1 arena spec though by a landslide.

I'd still go frost in BGs and maybe RBGs (although unholy diseases are still insane in organized play).

[Machomaije]

Like i've said so many times before, a GOOD unholy dk will ALWAYS be better then frost. ALWAYS. There is a reason top players still play Unholy. People who play frost often do it because UH is to complicated for them, and Frost is a 3 button class, which makes it easy for them to play. Yes, 3 buttons. Dont even try to argue with that.

[Deleted]

Should be UH for any combo on arena and frost for RBG.

[Wumbology]

Like i've said so many times before, a GOOD unholy dk will ALWAYS be better then frost. ALWAYS. There is a reason top players still play Unholy. People who play frost often do it because UH is to complicated for them, and Frost is a 3 button class, which makes it easy for them to play. Yes, 3 buttons. Dont even try to argue with that.

I really hate it when people overgeneralize like this. Anybody can be closeminded and just randomly say unholy is only a few buttons, all u gotta do is press Festering Strike, Scourge Strike, Death Coil when it procs, and then power up timmy. That's 3 buttons right there, the fourth only coming after 5 stacks.
Obviously this isn't true, just as it isn't true for frost. Granted, unholy is more complicated than frost, there's no denying that. But frost being a 3 button class isn't something I can agree with.

[Machomaije]

I really hate it when people overgeneralize like this. Anybody can be closeminded and just randomly say unholy is only a few buttons, all u gotta do is press Festering Strike, Scourge Strike, Death Coil when it procs, and then power up timmy. That's 3 buttons right there, the fourth only coming after 5 stacks.
Obviously this isn't true, just as it isn't true for frost. Granted, unholy is more complicated than frost, there's no denying that. But frost being a 3 button class isn't something I can agree with.

Difference is that you actually have to watch your runes as Unholy, to keep up damage and pressure you need to use your uh runes for scourge strikes, and death runes for necrotic. You also need to keep converting runes to death runes. As Frost, you dont have to do any of this. Next time your doing a bg, rbg or anything with a frost dk, watch recount when your done. 1 will be Howling Blast. 2 will be Frost Strike and 3 will be be Obliterate. Then there is the dots that comes like 40% behind that again on the dmg meter. How is that not 3 buttons?

[Deleted]

UH will still remain better in 3s and frost for RBGs.

[Deleted]

[...]How is that not 3 buttons?

Because as UH DC and NS/Deseases won't come up too as top 3 ? You can jump to conclusions on anything. All class specs have the same top 3 spells/buttons (w/e u want to call it, remains the same) u'll see in the recount above everything else.

[Deleted]

I don't personally play dk, but I'd say if you're going with a rogue in 3's go Frost, Pillar lines up with dance and by the third dance you can rune-reset+shadow blades resulting in quite immidiate death if enemy team doesn't have trinket ready.

If you are going any other comp I think Unholy will be better, they already have sick damage and seems like they will have an easier time to set up burst after the patch with gargoyle not costing runepower and what not. Works already quite well with shadowpriest/aff lock, think it will be quite strong along with PHDK.

For bgs or whatever, you should just go with whatever you feel like playing, no one cares but you for that anyway.

[Machomaije]

Because as UH DC and NS/Deseases won't come up too as top 3 ? You can jump to conclusions on anything. All class specs have the same top 3 spells/buttons (w/e u want to call it, remains the same) u'll see in the recount above everything else.

Actually, no. Both DoT's should come up at 1 and 2 as UH.

[Deleted]

Actually, no. Both DoT's should come up at 1 and 2 as UH.

And (and tbh it really depends on the fights you do) ? My point still stands, don't jump to conclusions. Basic class design is the same for the whole game.

[VanishO2]

Difference is that you actually have to watch your runes as Unholy, to keep up damage and pressure you need to use your uh runes for scourge strikes, and death runes for necrotic. You also need to keep converting runes to death runes. As Frost, you dont have to do any of this. Next time your doing a bg, rbg or anything with a frost dk, watch recount when your done. 1 will be Howling Blast. 2 will be Frost Strike and 3 will be be Obliterate. Then there is the dots that comes like 40% behind that again on the dmg meter. How is that not 3 buttons?

Really comparing button presses with "watching runes"??? And only unholy use things like necrotic strike? Pro play...

Guess the main reason for Howling Blast being the number one is... being kited forever... you know, frost does not have the help of a npc ghoul that is always on target and you can even macro (good skill) to keep stuning/charging your oponent... improved passive movement speed... yeah...

You'll need to watch your runes too as frost, damn, all specs can choose with rune regen they'll use...

Guess what unholy uses to proc some rune regen mechanics? The same thing they can spam at melee or ranged and does a decent damage to keep pressure... yeah... death coil and ppl can't figure out why frost is "1. howling blast by far, 2.frost strike, 3.obliterate" (and don't care if they are 2h or dw to see if it's good or bad that oblit is last).

And for god sake... diseases... apply, spread and lol as unholy...

[Neave]

Really comparing button presses with "watching runes"???
Guess what unholy uses to proc some rune regen mechanics? The same thing they can spam at melee or ranged and does a decent damage to keep pressure... yeah... death coil .
And for god sake... diseases... apply, spread and lol as unholy...

Death Coil costs Runic Power, generated from attacking. Howling Blast costs runes which regen automatically. it's impossible to spam DC by itself without spending runes. and theres much more to unholy than diseases.

right now, if you do anything but open up with two Festering Strikes, you're absolutely screwed and set behind by a lot of time waiting to get a second chance of Reaping. thats a deadly mistake in PVP. Frost has no such situation. we cant just "spread diseases", it takes some thought and planning.

we do "watch runes" so much more specifically than Frost because we actively generate Death Runes. Frost gets them automatically.
Unholy is a proactive rotation, Frost is passive/automatic. (im not saying Frost requires no skill, thats just how the specs work)


look through the spellbook yourself, because all you said was inaccurate.

[Machomaije]

Death Coil costs Runic Power, generated from attacking. Howling Blast costs runes which regen automatically. it's impossible to spam DC by itself without spending runes. and theres much more to unholy than diseases.

right now, if you do anything but open up with two Festering Strikes, you're absolutely screwed and set behind by a lot of time waiting to get a second chance of Reaping. thats a deadly mistake in PVP. Frost has no such situation. we cant just "spread diseases", it takes some thought and planning.

we do "watch runes" so much more specifically than Frost because we actively generate Death Runes. Frost gets them automatically.
Unholy is a proactive rotation, Frost is passive/automatic. (im not saying Frost requires no skill, thats just how the specs work)


look through the spellbook yourself, because all you said was inaccurate.

^ .