[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Apero]

That's dumb for them then. Spriests T15 bonuses will have great synergy with their DoT crits, greatly extending their duration and proccing the questionable apparitions. Boomkins get instant Starsurge procs as far as I know on DoT crits as well. Fire Mages, well, you know their deal. Just because these classes aren't using the trinket doesn't mean that they shouldn't be.

Again, its only Shadow, Balance and Demo(and affli, maybe, on fights like council, singletarget its bad because malefic grasps duplicated ticks are not snapshotting the crit).
Its near to useless for firemages, all they can do is cast a fireball during that 4s, or maybe a lb/nt ,but its nothing compared to their alternative bis trinkets. Or tell me why a fire mage would ever use lei shen?

[Xorn]

I can see it being a good option for Boomkins and maybe spriests. But Fire mages damage isn't going to skyrocket from an extra crit or two that happens randomly. It feels pretty weak unless you are doing something with DoTs.

Random extra crits are what Fire is all about. Remember that now that have the ability to trigger a Hot Streak with Inferno Blast, so every time the trinket procs is a guaranteed instant Pyro crit. Sure it's not AS good as it could have been before Combustion got nerfed to hell, but it's still something.

[Apero]

Random extra crits are what Fire is all about. Remember that now that have the ability to trigger a Hot Streak with Inferno Blast, so every time the trinket procs is a guaranteed instant Pyro crit. Sure it's not AS good as it could have been before Combustion got nerfed to hell, but it's still something.

Wow, a extra pyroblast every 1-2 minutes, how amazing --> useless trinket.

The raidlead giving this trinket to mages before (demo) warlocks should get laughed at. (even the mages using it should)

[Zinnin]

Random extra crits are what Fire is all about. Remember that now that have the ability to trigger a Hot Streak with Inferno Blast, so every time the trinket procs is a guaranteed instant Pyro crit. Sure it's not AS good as it could have been before Combustion got nerfed to hell, but it's still something.

The spec may be all about 'random crits' but that doesn't mean the value of an extra crit is high. For a nuke using this trinket might increase your average crit change through the fight by 1-2%, using this trinket on a DoT like corruption might increase its average crit by 10-20%. For a DoT like Doom this trinket can increase its average crit chance over 50%. Using this trinket solely for a nuke spell isn't going to be worth a whole lot.

[Xorn]

Wow, a extra pyroblast every 1-2 minutes, how amazing --> useless trinket.

The raidlead giving this trinket to mages before (demo) warlocks should get laughed at. (even the mages using it should)

Yes, how completely useless with its 1500 static Int...

I'm not saying it's BETTER for Mages, I'm just saying that it's still GOOD for them.

[Xyronic]

To be fair, Fire mages will be able to Alter time this trinket, so they can easily get 3 or 4 Instant Pyros off followed by combustion. This actually is a large dps increase.

[Zinnin]

To be fair, Fire mages will be able to Alter time this trinket, so they can easily get 3 or 4 Instant Pyros off followed by combustion. This actually is a large dps increase.

The idea of sitting on a cooldown for any of these trinkets seems kind of absurd to me. Unless they just happen to get that one in a hundred pull where it procs at the same time they are using cooldowns this isn't going to happen.

[Teye]

Yes, how completely useless with its 1500 static Int...

I'm not saying it's BETTER for Mages, I'm just saying that it's still GOOD for them.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Every other trinket is going to get Mages a higher benefit than Visions will. As Demo, we benefit from one proc for over a minute, Shadow benefits for 30 seconds and Boomkins can theoretically benefit indefinitely from a single proc. Fire gets 3 free crits, tops, which is nothing when compared to other casters.

To be fair, Fire mages will be able to Alter time this trinket, so they can easily get 3 or 4 Instant Pyros off followed by combustion. This actually is a large dps increase.

This will happen once in a month of raiding, if the mage is lucky.

[Xorn]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Every other trinket is going to get Mages a higher benefit than Visions will. As Demo, we benefit from one proc for over a minute, Shadow benefits for 30 seconds and Boomkins can theoretically benefit indefinitely from a single proc. Fire gets 3 free crits, tops, which is nothing when compared to other casters.




This will happen once in a month of raiding, if the mage is lucky.

Oh well. I guess one of the three classes I listed won't want it. I guess that means everything I said is invalidated. Oh. Wait.

And it still doesn't change the fact that my initial point was that we're not the only casters who will live and/or die by this trinket. The other main contenders for this are Boomkins and Spriests, who are, last I checked, still scraping the bottom of the barrel as it is. If ANYONE has to worry about being balanced around this thing, it's them.

[xskarma]

Just simmed myself using latest version, my results come out: Demo 1.5% over Affli GoSup 1% over Affli GoSac. Which means I have a tough choice to make. I'm pretty certain I won't be able to match the Demo profile's efficiency though so Affli GoSup is probably my best bet till I've got a better handle on playing Demo. Wish they would have made these balance changes like a week or 2 earlier so I'd gotten more reps in with Demo.

[Teye]

Oh well. I guess one of the three classes I listed won't want it. I guess that means everything I said is invalidated. Oh. Wait.

And it still doesn't change the fact that my initial point was that we're not the only casters who will live and/or die by this trinket. The other main contenders for this are Boomkins and Spriests, who are, last I checked, still scraping the bottom of the barrel as it is. If ANYONE has to worry about being balanced around this thing, it's them.

Relax dude, I never said your entire point was invalid. I simply corrected you about Fire Mages benefiting from this trinket on the same level as Demo/Spriest/Boomkin.

[Xorn]

Just simmed myself using latest version, my results come out: Demo 1.5% over Affli GoSup 1% over Affli GoSac. Which means I have a tough choice to make. I'm pretty certain I won't be able to match the Demo profile's efficiency though so Affli GoSup is probably my best bet till I've got a better handle on playing Demo. Wish they would have made these balance changes like a week or 2 earlier so I'd gotten more reps in with Demo.

Naw man, half the fun of playing a dps class is completely adjusting your playing style every content patch to match the current best spec.

---------- Post added 2013-03-01 at 03:53 PM ----------

Relax dude, I never said your entire point was invalid. I simply corrected you about Fire Mages benefiting from this trinket on the same level as Demo/Spriest/Boomkin.

I know, sorry. I'm just cranky because I couldn't fall asleep last night and now I have to do stuff.


Also, I have a bit of a theory. Zinnin, can you run your modified APL with the Lei Shen trinket using GoSac for Demo? I wonder if the extra Imp damage will close the gap any...

[Zinnin]

I have ran comparisons between using GoSac and GoServ already, it is less then a thousand dps gain to be using GoServ. That isn't going to be the case on 2+ targets however.

@teye a simcraft dev replied to you ticket about shadowflame \ bombs are you working on a profile for him?

[Teye]

@teye a simcraft dev replied to you ticket about shadowflame \ bombs are you working on a profile for him?

I just saw it last night, and haven't started yet. You're probably far better with Simcraft than I am, would you like to do it?

[Zinnin]

Yea, I think I have one nearly done. Will post it shortly.

[Depravitty]

To be fair, Fire mages will be able to Alter time this trinket, so they can easily get 3 or 4 Instant Pyros off followed by combustion. This actually is a large dps increase.

Yea i think the way the trink procs would be far to random for a mage to take this trink and legitimately try to use it for that purpose.

[Ridcully]

From AffDots code, i see that doom tick damage is computed as D=(1068+spd)*(1+crit/100)*(1+(mastery*3)/100)

So with different setups (using raidbuffed stats with 28000 spell 25% crit 25% mastery as an example)
- base : D1 = 65773,75
- 100% crit : D2 = 105238
- DS only : D3 = 99600,25
- DS + 4k spell proc : D4 = 114175,25

With that stat setup, and with the current code, as D4 > D2, so it's completely logical for the addon to advise you to refresh doom when proc+DS is up. So my advice would be that you put a request in AffDots thread to have a special case added to the addon implementation for Doom+100%trinket proc. Please note that AffDots' doom base damage (1068) and scale factors (1.0) are not up to date with either live or ptr reality, but using 5340/125% spell data yields the same conclusion anyway.

Thanks for pointing out the error in formula. 5340 seems to be divided by number of ticks, tick damage for naked character is ~1900. This will be fixed in next version along with limiting crit% to 100.
Not sure what you mean with adding a special case. Addon should advise refreshing when stats are better, is that not the case?

[Zinnin]

Thanks for pointing out the error in formula. 5340 seems to be divided by number of ticks, tick damage for naked character is ~1900. This will be fixed in next version along with limiting crit% to 100.
Not sure what you mean with adding a special case. Addon should advise refreshing when stats are better, is that not the case?

I don't a special case needs to be added, players using the trinket should know how it's used.

[Ridcully]

I don't a special case needs to be added, players using the trinket should know how it's used.

Oh, unless... crit imps. I can hardcode to add some dps to doom damage when crit is 100%. +10 or so percent?

Edit: Ignore that. I'll figure out how to better display that information.

[lichanator]

Just simmed myself using latest version, my results come out: Demo 1.5% over Affli GoSup 1% over Affli GoSac. Which means I have a tough choice to make. I'm pretty certain I won't be able to match the Demo profile's efficiency though so Affli GoSup is probably my best bet till I've got a better handle on playing Demo. Wish they would have made these balance changes like a week or 2 earlier so I'd gotten more reps in with Demo.

Nope not good enough, you must play what simcraft says is top dps or else