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  1. #301
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Sad they "acknowledge" this because it isn't true. They aren't mandatory at all. You don't need to spend the VP or JP and there are ways to unlocking some factions rep item without doing dailies.
    No, it is true.

    Blizzard created a situation where doing dailies felt mandatory to many players. They put gear that was of high value to many players, gear that was useful to reach the gear cap and fill in gaps, and they placed it behind a rep vendor. Players wanted the gear, players needed the gear so getting the rep was necessary. And because you can't control what drops, you need to get rep with them all.

    And do so while the gear was of value.


    Could you get by without the gear? Sure. But it was a bad idea to do so in many ways.

    Personally, I still blame the problem on the largely unnecessary rep lock. Having so much useful gear behind so high a rep lock for so many factions all at the same time was not a good idea.

    EJL

  2. #302
    It happened just like hard dungeons again man. History repeats itself. It was a divisive issue. People gave them feedback, they ignored it or insisted their position was correct. I still expect a blog about it. Fans defended them. They began to acknowledge it was a problem and then eventually they will abandon it. It would have been sooooooooooo much simpler if everyone just got on fucking board on the same page and petitioned them to do something about it. Cataclysm 2.0 folks.

  3. #303
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baikalsan View Post
    Sure...keep telling yourself that. We won so many battles now, despite you guys and Blizzard repeating the same mantra over and over again.

    You guys whined to no end when they wanted to nerf Cata heroics. You guys keep whining that WoW sucks and TBC was the best ever and they should return to its model. You got your wish in Cata, they made them harder but you didn't call yourselves whiners. Why is that? Why is everyone else a whiner? Your posts are considered constructive feedback and ours "whining". In truth there is no group more spoiled and whiny than the wannabe hardcores.
    Cata heroic instances at launch weren't hard, nor were they anything like BC heroics & Vanilla endgame instances. Cata heroics were long, tedious, and dull; they were easy to get into with inappropriate or inadequate gear; and they dropped players cold into a radically changed playstyle. All of these made people dislike running them, but they were not "hard" the way BRD, UBRS, Scholo, or Shattered Halls, or Magister's Terrace were when they were current content.

  4. #304
    Deleted
    The problem wasn't the dailies, it's the attitudes of players expecting everything to be handed to them on a plate. Tabard rep was so incredibly boring and done with after a week of mindless grinding. Dailies were never meant to be done religiously, I've just finished my last rep (Tillers) because I spaced out the reps, but ultimately I haven't missed out on anything taking my time with it.

    If you want gear then raid. Simple. If you are a casual player like myself then learn to settle for LFR gear and crafteds, stop expecting the best of everything, because really you don't even need it.

    The daily quest hubs and gating meant the content was spread out over a long period of time. I can guarantee that the QQDAILYS brigade would of been crying they had nothing to do a month after release.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    No, it is true.

    Blizzard created a situation where doing dailies felt mandatory to many players. They put gear that was of high value to many players, gear that was useful to reach the gear cap and fill in gaps, and they placed it behind a rep vendor. Players wanted the gear, players needed the gear so getting the rep was necessary. And because you can't control what drops, you need to get rep with them all.

    And do so while the gear was of value.


    Could you get by without the gear? Sure. But it was a bad idea to do so in many ways.

    Personally, I still blame the problem on the largely unnecessary rep lock. Having so much useful gear behind so high a rep lock for so many factions all at the same time was not a good idea.

    EJL
    Ding ding ding ding, winner! This is how a lot of players IMO looked at this.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Cata heroic instances at launch weren't hard, nor were they anything like BC heroics & Vanilla endgame instances. Cata heroics were long, tedious, and dull; they were easy to get into with inappropriate or inadequate gear; and they dropped players cold into a radically changed playstyle. All of these made people dislike running them, but they were not "hard" the way BRD, UBRS, Scholo, or Shattered Halls, or Magister's Terrace were when they were current content.
    My point was that people cried for harder instances and that they wanted it to be more like TBC. Of course most TBC dungeons were an entire different beast than cata heroics.

    Although BRD, UBRS, Scholo weren't really hard. They also were long and tedious like most classic dungeons and raids. Shattered halls and Magister on the other hand............yea they were hard.

    The problem is Blizzard always overcompensates and only acts in extremes. Wrath dungeons were too easy in their view so they ramped up the difficulty a lot (at least for pugs) and nerfed healing into the ground. Remember when they introduced vehicles in wrath? We had too many fights with them, now they are managing to use them properly.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baikalsan View Post
    Sure...keep telling yourself that. We won so many battles now, despite you guys and Blizzard repeating the same mantra over and over again.

    You guys whined to no end when they wanted to nerf Cata heroics. You guys keep whining that WoW sucks and TBC was the best ever and they should return to its model. You got your wish in Cata, they made them harder but you didn't call yourselves whiners. Why is that? Why is everyone else a whiner? Your posts are considered constructive feedback and ours "whining". In truth there is no group more spoiled and whiny than the wannabe hardcores.

    You keep demanding hard content, exclusive mounts and titles. You keep demanding 200 dailies that take ages to complete. The problem with your group is that you cannot see anyone who isn't "hardcore" happy. All the content has to be tuned for you. Do you see me whining about challenge modes or heroic raids? NO!
    You talk up a storm about "Us wanting dailies" as I have said MANY times, I haven't TOUCHED THEM, I am not even past FRIENDLY with Golden Lotus, bought no VP gear and STILL RAID, YES you are whiners because you think dailies are MANDATORY TO RAID they are NOT! I ask for harder content because I don't fear a challenge in my games, it makes it worth it! Then when things ARE a challenge you go cry on their forums and things get nerfed to the ground making it boring as all hell.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 05:35 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    The problem wasn't the dailies, it's the attitudes of players expecting everything to be handed to them on a plate. Tabard rep was so incredibly boring and done with after a week of mindless grinding. Dailies were never meant to be done religiously, I've just finished my last rep (Tillers) because I spaced out the reps, but ultimately I haven't missed out on anything taking my time with it.

    If you want gear then raid. Simple. If you are a casual player like myself then learn to settle for LFR gear and crafteds, stop expecting the best of everything, because really you don't even need it.

    The daily quest hubs and gating meant the content was spread out over a long period of time. I can guarantee that the QQDAILYS brigade would of been crying they had nothing to do a month after release.
    Also this
    Oh and I like your bunny avatar.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    You talk up a storm about "Us wanting dailies" as I have said MANY times, I haven't TOUCHED THEM, I am not even past FRIENDLY with Golden Lotus, bought no VP gear and STILL RAID, YES you are whiners because you think dailies are MANDATORY TO RAID they are NOT! I ask for harder content because I don't fear a challenge in my games, it makes it worth it! Then when things ARE a challenge you go cry on their forums and things get nerfed to the ground making it boring as all hell.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 05:35 AM ----------



    Also this
    Oh and I like your bunny avatar.
    Nobody actually asked for more dailies. Nobody back in cata said that there are not enough dailies(Blizzard said it took too long to finish dailies back then). The issue is that people pro daily grind refuse to give us an alternative. They said "either do dailies or **** off". We don't want dailies removed, I like dailies. What we wanted is an alternative to get rep and not even in the form of tabards. What they are implementing seems to be an entirely reasonable comrpomise to people capable of using logic.

    As I said, nothing is mandatory in life. But Blizzard said themselves that some systems push people into doing them no matter if they like them or not because of their rewards.

    And by the way, you can have heroic bosses and normal raids that nobody can kill for months. I don't give a damn.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    I noticed that they are finally acknowledging that dailies are too forced.
    "finally" tbh, this actually made me laugh a little bit, they should have noticed that before even releasing pandaria. I think as a developer you need to have some kind of insight how things will propably work out even before the change goes live.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baikalsan View Post
    Nobody actually asked for more dailies. Nobody back in cata said that there are not enough dailies(Blizzard said it took too long to finish dailies back then). The issue is that people pro daily grind refuse to give us an alternative. They said "either do dailies or **** off". We don't want dailies removed, I like dailies. What we wanted is an alternative to get rep and not even in the form of tabards. What they are implementing seems to be an entirely reasonable comrpomise to people capable of using logic.

    As I said, nothing is mandatory in life. But Blizzard said themselves that some systems push people into doing them no matter if they like them or not because of their rewards.

    And by the way, you can have heroic bosses and normal raids that nobody can kill for months. I don't give a damn.
    I am going on the assumption that you want rep for gear so here again are alternatives.................crafted gear and LFR, and if you don't do normal raids I have no clue what you even need with raid level gear to begin with, and again love the bunny.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    I am going on the assumption that you want rep for gear so here again are alternatives.................crafted gear and LFR, and if you don't do normal raids I have no clue what you even need with raid level gear to begin with, and again love the bunny.
    Actually not really, I am not talking about the gear. My only complaint always was that there should be an alternative to get rep so I can get exalted with those faction I want to (for fluff and mounts).

    However I am a believer that even non raiders should have some gear progression during an expansion. Obviously that gear should be much worse than gear that drops in normal raids. The only reson I do LFR is because of transmog gear and that's it. I don't really care about the ilevel that is attached to it.

    And thank you, he can be quite adroable when he isn't hungry.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    on my server epics regularly go for 20k at the low end to 70k at high end.
    Which server is that? And are you talking about the 476 epics, or the higher ilvl ones crafted from blood spirits?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  13. #313
    Deleted
    Puts all the shit the blue clown Draztal says into perspective.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    on my server epics regularly go for 20k at the low end to 70k at high end.
    Which server is that?

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    I am going on the assumption that you want rep for gear so here again are alternatives.................crafted gear and LFR, and if you don't do normal raids I have no clue what you even need with raid level gear to begin with, and again love the bunny.
    You can easily have bad RNG in raids and in LFR. Depending on the server buying gear can be VERY expensive and some people believe or not aren't very good at getting gold. What is a good way to make up for that, dailies. If there is good gear out there to get and it doesn't require RNG, people are gonna feel like they need to get that gear, to progress their character, to try to get help their raid team as much as they can. Are they mandatory for raiding, no of course not. However for some people, you have to convince them to sit on their "bad gear" and ignore dailies and hope that gear drops for them in their raid. To these people, dailies feel mandatory, they feel like they need to keep up.

  16. #316
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    So after so many pages, I still wonder how are 5.2 dailies supposed to feel less "mandatory" in regard to Charms. Except for constant arguing about meaning of "mandatory", and all those great stories how X got 16/16H without touching dailies and totally didn't gimp his raid by doing so.

  17. #317
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    It took me about a month to hit exalted with all the daily reputations.
    I did every daily quest, every day.
    It was a huge pain that ended quickly.
    I don't know if they are meant to be mandatory, but damn, do they feel like they are.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    So after so many pages, I still wonder how are 5.2 dailies supposed to feel less "mandatory" in regard to Charms. Except for constant arguing about meaning of "mandatory", and all those great stories how X got 16/16H without touching dailies and totally didn't gimp his raid by doing so.
    they are mandatory depending on what is your objective in game, if you wanna the charms for the bonus roll you need to do the new daily.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Baikalsan View Post
    Yes this is exactly the problem. People are splitting hairs and getting out their dictinaries in a sad attempt to not look foolish.

    For months people reposted Blizzards daily doctrine "it is not mandatory, just don't do them". While people like me predicted that this wont last long, that they will change the system in place. And now they are doing it. You wanna know why I knew that? Because at the end of Cataclysm Blizzard themselves said that dailies aren't that much fun and that doing them took too much time.
    The reason why they still went ahead and made dailies more important than ever in this expansion was because they wanted to slow players down and avoid an early exodus. Question remains if they were successful or if it backfired.

    And now to you trolls and fanboys. You were wrong all along, the new system has flaws and Blizzard admits it. You can go ahead and keep your dictionary open and grasp at definitions. But the fact remains that you lost and you can't deal with it.

    Nothing in this game was ever mandatory. But in the past they always changed systems because they felt that they were too rewarding and it pushed players into one direction. In wotlk it was tabards and I never heard anyone cry about them (especially since there were enough dailies out there). And this and they fully well knew it would backfire.
    Exactly, why can't people see dailies were only there to slow players down and doing daily hubs was a low budget/quick way of doing it. I wonder if any of the devs actually did the damn dailies everyday for 2 weeks and had "fun". Fact is they implemented a boring system to unlock valor gear and now they realise they are losing players because of it.

    If they wanted to do a quick way of slowing players down they should of done an epic quest line for each faction which didn't involve repeating the same quests on a daily basis.

  20. #320
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerodyne View Post
    Four 476 items from Scenarios?!

    Didn't even realize you could get anything from scenarios. I've done loads and only got gold. You must be lucky or I am really unlucky.

    On topic: I don't have time for organised raiding anymore, so I just do LFR. Dailies definitely were mandatory to me. I'm not content running one MSV LFR per week, and then logging off. The game needs another way to get gear. It used to be heroic dungeons in TBC, then rep in Wotlk and Cata, and it's still rep now, it's just that the rep is gated behind dailies AND VP.

    Seriously in terms of "progressing your character" dailies are mandatory. You don't have to do them, true, but what else are you going to do when you log in? Other than LFR there's nothing to do that makes your character more powerful. That's the problem. For people that hate daily quests (and I can totally see why), it is a real problem.[COLOR="red"]
    The epics you earned in TBC dungeons were way lower items level than the raiding ones, so I dont think they are comparable

    And if you say you don't have time for raiding... well can you expect to get the sam gear as (normal mode) raiders get? Absosoutely not

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