[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Deleted]

MSBT "thinks" your corr ticks are doom ticks for some reason.

Ohh so that's why it's showing the Doom icon and than an absurdly low number after.

That explains alot, thank you!

[Micke]

Oh, unless... crit imps. I can hardcode to add some dps to doom damage when crit is 100%. +10 or so percent?

Edit: Ignore that. I'll figure out how to better display that information.

I don't use the addon but would it not be possible to add the wild imps damage to Doom? Find out what an imp does for baseline dmg and scale factors, then split/add the damage depending on it's chance to proc via amount of ticks and amount of crit % and add this to doom. I'm not sure how this addon operates exactly but you could find out the % value that crit rating increases with compared to how it does now (with a limit of 100%) and the different haste plateus that adds ticks to doom and and simply increase the value of these stats (so say 100 critrating adds 1% to doom under the current mechanic, but with wild imps its value increases by 20%, so now 100 crit rating adds 1.20%) and use this as a way to correctly show the worth of haste and crit buffs/procs on doom. Then we will truly see how much better a 100% crit doom is compared to other buffs.

I have no idea if this is possible, just a thought.

[Deleted]

I don't use the addon but would it not be possible to add the wild imps damage to Doom? Find out what an imp does for baseline dmg and scale factors, then split/add the damage depending on it's chance to proc via amount of ticks and amount of crit % and add this to doom. I'm not sure how this addon operates exactly but you could find out the % value that crit rating increases with compared to how it does now (with a limit of 100%) and the different haste plateus that adds ticks to doom and and simply increase the value of these stats (so say 100 critrating adds 1% to doom under the current mechanic, but with wild imps its value increases by 20%, so now 100 crit rating adds 1.20%) and use this as a way to correctly show the worth of haste and crit buffs/procs on doom. Then we will truly see how much better a 100% crit doom is compared to other buffs.

I have no idea if this is possible, just a thought.

You would also have to account for the dps value of the fury the imps generate. And as imp damage varies dynamically as buffs change (as does the dps value of the fury they generate depending on when exactly you end up spending it) such a calculation would probably be inaccurate and affect the addon's performance a lot. And it's probably unnecessary, I really doubt any combination of other buffs would outweigh the dps value of 100% crit dooms, their spawned imps, and the fury from those spawned imps.

His approximation method sounds fine, rather than trying to calculate a real-time accurate number.

[Micke]

You would also have to account for the dps value of the fury the imps generate. And as imp damage varies dynamically as buffs change (as does the dps value of the fury they generate depending on when exactly you end up spending it) such a calculation would probably be inaccurate and affect the addon's performance a lot. And it's probably unnecessary, I really doubt any combination of other buffs would outweigh the dps value of 100% crit dooms, their spawned imps, and the fury from those spawned imps.

His approximation method sounds fine, rather than trying to calculate a real-time accurate number.

Yeah did forget about the fury, which would be kind of hard to math out the gain of (you could add a % amount of incoming fury in simcraft, much like the tier 15 4piece over the course of a fight, then compare the relative dps difference % , calculate the % value of 1 fury, and tack this onto the wild imp damage and have it scale with how much fury will be generated).

I think if you know the scale factors of imp that could work fine, but you'd have to have a moving % value since it will scale differently.

And yeah I agree that with the crit trinket it will be unecessary since it will straight of beat everything, but perhaps there will be some trinket procs in heroic t15 that could outweigh it?

But this is not just only about the value of the 100% crit trinket, there are other haste buffs/procs and trinkets with crit procs (and flat out stats on gear) in this game that could gain from being modeled more correctly for doom.

Not trying to push for anything unreasonable here, I'm fine with whatever, dont main demo anyway, but I think it is good to point out so people know the flaw of affdots when it comes to this spells calculations and simply have to keep its buffed value in your head instead of relying on the addon to tell you what to do.

[Deleted]

Can anybody explain how void ray works and when/how to use it. I understand its part of the aoe rotation and increases corruption duration on targets.

Its more about its short range and it says in a line. Do they have to be in a direct straight line and dont use it when they are slightly spread? And if you turn during the animation does it hit other targets like the old shadowflame but to a lesser extent as its not a cone effect?

Played affliction all this tier but hoping to play demo more this patch.

[Zinnin]

I highly doubt any combination of anything this tier is going to outweigh the value of a guaranteed Imp off of every tick. The DPS gain I had when going from the sims just using the trinket, to reacting with refreshing Doom, and then not refreshing it tell it fell was way too high for another proc to come close to outweighing it.

I think 'Affdots' just showing the 'c' next to the number is plenty sufficient. As long as you are reacting quickly you are going to get 6+ ticks of doom, which means under normal crit levels on average 3-4 Imps gained. That is a pretty significant amount of damage, as each one of those imps is worth nearly as much as a crit of doom if not more.

/shrug, maybe I'm wrong as I haven't looked at the hard numbers yet, but I really doubt we need to worry about the exact value.

Can anybody explain how void ray works and when/how to use it. I understand its part of the aoe rotation and increases corruption duration on targets.

Its more about its short range and it says in a line. Do they have to be in a direct straight line and dont use it when they are slightly spread? And if you turn during the animation does it hit other targets like the old shadowflame but to a lesser extent as its not a cone effect?

Played affliction all this tier but hoping to play demo more this patch.

The old Shadowflame works just like Void Ray does now, which is that the targets that it hits is decided on cast. Moving around does and did nothing.

Void Ray should be used if it is going to hit 4+ targets, otherwise stick to ToC.

[LordRvh]

2 Questions...

1) Should Imp Swarm + GoServ be used off CD? Or should I line them up with Dark Soul (I don't have 4pc yet )

2) Is the Imp Swarm glyph mandatory?

[Soul_Saviour]

Hey zinnin first of all thanks for the guide, helped me out on some parts.

I've still got 2 questions though, so if you (or otehrs) don't mind.

1) I notice you use the DMC trinket 2/2 over the Elegon HC trinket, but in your guide you say Elegon trinket is better, is there a reason to this? Is upgraded DMC trinket actually better pre 5.2 due to the passive int?

2) I also see you don't use glyph of shadowbolt, is it dps loss to use it?

Thanks in advance!

[Micke]

I highly doubt any combination of anything this tier is going to outweigh the value of a guaranteed Imp off of every tick. The DPS gain I had when going from the sims just using the trinket, to reacting with refreshing Doom, and then not refreshing it tell it fell was way too high for another proc to come close to outweighing it.

I think 'Affdots' just showing the 'c' next to the number is plenty sufficient. As long as you are reacting quickly you are going to get 6+ ticks of doom, which means under normal crit levels on average 3-4 Imps gained. That is a pretty significant amount of damage, as each one of those imps is worth nearly as much as a crit of doom if not more.

But what if you don't have the trinket? What if it goes 2-3 mins in between procs? What if the trinket dont end up being the overall best one in practice in this tier or the next? There are other sources of temporary crit and haste procs/buffs that could alter the buff percentages displaying on doom, it is true it won't have as dramatic effect on overall dps, but neither is using the addon in the first place. Perhaps a simple way could be simming a character using nothing but Doom at various haste and crit levels and work from there.

[sickestnerdchills]

Hi I have a few more questions regarding Demo hopefully someone will be happy to answer. For AoE I understand that if Adds live long enough Full DoTs are worth it. But looking at a fight like Horridon there seems to be around 5ish adds spawning at once.

Lets say 5 targets spawn they take around 20 seconds to die. Is it worth taking 10 GCDs to Corruption/Doom them all? Is it worth it to do just Doom or Just corruption them? What about 5 targets that die in about 15 seconds? The adds that spawn on Council come in great numbers as well. How many targets in an AoE pack does there need to be for us to not DoT them anymore? If there are 15-20 small adds is it not better just to Hand of Guldan Stagger and Hellfire/Immolation Aura?

I'm really trying to be a dps monster when it comes to these fights with adds but I'm torn as to how much time I should spend trying to DoT them up compared to just using Hellfire.

[nightrianna]

They better fix that fkin bug on the ptr!. The whole "Can't use felguard because he is missing a weapon"-_-

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 02:24 AM ----------

that trinket is completely rng, but if you get a fuck ton of procs the dps increase is massive. On ptr i went from 170k to 268k when the trinket procc'd twice on twin consorts

[ZakAtack]

Hi I have a few more questions regarding Demo hopefully someone will be happy to answer. For AoE I understand that if Adds live long enough Full DoTs are worth it. But looking at a fight like Horridon there seems to be around 5ish adds spawning at once.

Lets say 5 targets spawn they take around 20 seconds to die. Is it worth taking 10 GCDs to Corruption/Doom them all? Is it worth it to do just Doom or Just corruption them? What about 5 targets that die in about 15 seconds? The adds that spawn on Council come in great numbers as well. How many targets in an AoE pack does there need to be for us to not DoT them anymore? If there are 15-20 small adds is it not better just to Hand of Guldan Stagger and Hellfire/Immolation Aura?

I'm really trying to be a dps monster when it comes to these fights with adds but I'm torn as to how much time I should spend trying to DoT them up compared to just using Hellfire.

I'm no Demo master, but I did do this fight on the PTR LFR, so I feel I can provide a little help. There are many adds but with different health pools. Generally low health adds come through the doors and high health adds jump down, and then the Dinomancer has (probably) the highest health. It might not be worth it to Corr all the small bottom ones, but probably yes for the middle ones, and you might get off a tick or two of Doom on the Dinomancers, however that last part I'm most unsure about. I wouldn't hesitate too much on the Corrs, but maybe be careful about throwing up a lot of Dooms. Probably even wait on the HoGs til several adds are clustered up.

The fight is a long one too.

[Deleted]

So now i know it´s stupid to ask a question and not return to see the answer. About Imp swarm and haste breakpoint what I meant was that it should be a good idea to always use it with DS. Would the hastebreakpoint where that gives you 1 extra imp due to the passive when off cooldown be of any "decent" worth. Basicly the damage of 1 imp every 2 minuites

[Zinnin]

So now i know it´s stupid to ask a question and not return to see the answer. About Imp swarm and haste breakpoint what I meant was that it should be a good idea to always use it with DS. Would the hastebreakpoint where that gives you 1 extra imp due to the passive when off cooldown be of any "decent" worth. Basicly the damage of 1 imp every 2 minuites

Would be better to just delay DS by the 10s it takes to get the demonic calling

[Ciani]

Would be better to just delay DS by the 10s it takes to get the demonic calling

On the same subject Zinnin, I have been Affliction since launch and quite frankly, it is my favorite spec of all time. However, I want a change of pace and Demonology this upcoming patch seems like a good start. With that being said I have one question, with the T14 4 piece, is it worth postponing DS for the many cooldowns we have? Other than the pull, imps and GoServ always seem to be 20 seconds plus from DS. Waiting 20 seconds plus, seems way too much to wait and many times I find myself with trinkets still on CD and imps and GoServ as well. In this case I do wait up to 30 seconds because nothing is up.

How do you deal with this?

[LordRvh]

One thing I've noticed while playing with Demo is that the spec has low DPS in Caster, but sort of ramps up as you dance into Meta and whatnot. Is this a general rule for Demo? Is it generally like a roller coaster?

And also, after the opener, am I casting HoG off CD or waiting till HoG has two charges in order to clip it?

[nightfalls]

One thing I've noticed while playing with Demo is that the spec has low DPS in Caster, but sort of ramps up as you dance into Meta and whatnot. Is this a general rule for Demo? Is it generally like a roller coaster?

And also, after the opener, am I casting HoG off CD or waiting till HoG has two charges in order to clip it?

You can probably answer both questions yourself if you think hard enough about it.

[Lumathos]

Looking at the T15 simulations for demo on the ptr, I noticed they run crit heavily. Is this our new best stat? I had been running hit cap, then 3036 haste for the extra tick of one of the dots, then full mastery for better burst with Meta. And with simulations not accurately portraying the benefit of meta in relation to the double HoG stack with meta weaving, I figured mastery would be the best stat. Even with the new patch and getting some good buffs. Just wondering if for the new patch if I should go hit cap, then the 3036 haste, then full crit over mastery?

Here's my armory link: us [dot] battle [dot] net/wow/en/character/area-52/Lumathos/advanced

[LordRvh]

You can probably answer both questions yourself if you think hard enough about it.

Thought hard, still need a answer for number two. Would me throwing in please suffice? >_>

[Kael]

Thought hard, still need a answer for number two. Would me throwing in please suffice? >_>

I'd sooner say the first question remains unanswered, but the question implies the answer for the second (yes, you wait on the 2nd HoG CD in order to get a doubled shadowflame from meta - this is also covered on the first page in Zinnin's guide).

To answer your first question: yeah, it's a rollercoaster. Damage drops low, then spikes back up around good CD usage. This gap is largely implied, and should be made more obvious as mastery levels increase, by reading our mastery tooltip. That damage increase under Meta just gets silly. Take a look at with DS:K active.