Gandalf vs Dumbledore

[Rigimi44]

Well, Gandalf is a Maia. Which is pretty close to being a god. Considering that, I think Gandalf would win.

[Ausr]

As Gandalf the Grey, Gandalf was not capable of very powerful spells, though he still had potency up to an extent. One of his simpler spells was illumination.

Er... what? Gandalf was deemed to be the most powerful of the 5 wizards that came ashore.


No offense but 80% of your post makes me hurt.

[Markluzz]

Gandalf died and came back.

Dumbledore died and stayed dead.

And we have a victor.

[vaidela]

I feel like you can really tell who likes Harry Potter and who likes LOTR...

[Pony Soldier]

Compared to Gandalf, Dumbledore is just some old fart who casts old fart spells.

[Shynra]

Gandalf needed hobbits to destroy a cursed ring, the hobbit of his choosing would have failed if it weren't for circumstances beyond Frodo's control.
Dumbledore destroyed a cursed ring with a sword.

It was Gandalf's innate magic and foresight that made him select Frodo in the first place. Remember, Gandalf is older than Middle-earth itself, and has seen all its events and ages unfold when he witnessed the Music of the Ainur, prior to the creation of the world. He did not send Hobbits to run an errand, he selected them because he recognized the threads of fate and acted on it. Within Tolkien's Middle-earth legendarium, fate plays a very important part. Nobody else could have succeeded, and Gandalf was the only one to know this.

As for the question at hand, indeed, Gandalf would win. He is an eternal, divine soul possessing immense power. He cannot be killed or permanently removed from the world unless the very being (Eru Iluvatar, or God) that sent him willed it so. Dumbledore, while a very powerful wizard, remains a mortal man and can be killed.

However, to the guy going around telling people Gandalf has the power to 'alter reality' and blow up the sun and the moon, you're seriously misrepresenting Gandalf's power. He cannot do any of those things, Middle-earth and the whole of Arda's fates are already set in stone, as evidenced by the Music of the Ainur and the tapestries in the Halls of Mandos, and there is nothing anybody save Eru Iluvatar himself can do about it. Also, Gandalf has not sworn any oath to limit his power; it was simply forbidden to him by his superiors. He cannot reveal his full power because that would defeat the very purpose of his incarnation as the elderly wizard (as planned by his superiors), which is to rally, aid and inspire the Free Peoples of Middle-earth to stand up and defeat evil themselves. Gandalf cannot go toe-to-toe with Sauron, even though they are technically of the same divine order, because Gandalf is not meant to do so.

[Ladey Gags]

Gandalf is clearly more powerful than Dumbledore. However, all these LotR fanboys saying Dumbledore is just a magical old man not worthy of much obviously haven't read any Harry Potter books or seen the movies. If they have, they have horrible reading comprehension skills. Can't expect much from an MMO forum of geeks like us though. They won't even give Harry Potter a chance considering it was written for children. Shame.

[Gorged]

Screw him. If we want to talk about the really powerful wizards, the only one that really needs to be mentioned is Rincewind

Have to quote the truth of this. He accidentally memorised a spell so powerful he couldn't memorise others as they were to scared to stay in his head. Got shot off the disk and survived, saved the world twice and freed a country.

OT however gandalf would win i havent had chance to read the simirals (sp.) but the illustrated encyclopaedia has like 2 pages on gandalf has mair power and why he looks like a pansy really.

[CookieMonster55]

It was Gandalf's innate magic and foresight that made him select Frodo in the first place. Remember, Gandalf is older than Middle-earth itself, and has seen all its events and ages unfold when he witnessed the Music of the Ainur, prior to the creation of the world. He did not send Hobbits to run an errand, he selected them because he recognized the threads of fate and acted on it. Within Tolkien's Middle-earth legendarium, fate plays a very important part. Nobody else could have succeeded, and Gandalf was the only one to know this.

As for the question at hand, indeed, Gandalf would win. He is an eternal, divine soul possessing immense power. He cannot be killed or permanently removed from the world unless the very being (Eru Iluvatar, or God) that sent him willed it so. Dumbledore, while a very powerful wizard, remains a mortal man and can be killed.

However, to the guy going around telling people Gandalf has the power to 'alter reality' and blow up the sun and the moon, you're seriously misrepresenting Gandalf's power. He cannot do any of those things, Middle-earth and the whole of Arda's fates are already set in stone, as evidenced by the Music of the Ainur and the tapestries in the Halls of Mandos, and there is nothing anybody save Eru Iluvatar himself can do about it. Also, Gandalf has not sworn any oath to limit his power; it was simply forbidden to him by his superiors. He cannot reveal his full power because that would defeat the very purpose of his incarnation as the elderly wizard (as planned by his superiors), which is to rally, aid and inspire the Free Peoples of Middle-earth to stand up and defeat evil themselves. Gandalf cannot go toe-to-toe with Sauron, even though they are technically of the same divine order, because Gandalf is not meant to do so.

+1. I commend you sir for your knowledge of the books.

Like you said, while Gandalf could beat Sauron 1 on 1, it would just be him (a new powerful being) replacing another and could lead to him becoming a dark lord in his on right.

[Toughhorn]

The acting on both parts is phenomenal. Gandalf's life looks more adventurous though that's why i voted for him - he has more to do

[Elite Peon]

This guy killed


and this guy killed

We have a winner !

[Hedleyazg]

Gandalf = a type of god. Dumbledore = mortal. The amount of misinformation in this thread is mind boggling.

[Lumineus]

so much harry potter wrongness here...

dumbledore is MUCH more powerful than harry. the only reason harry can beat voldemort is because voldemorts and harry's souls are intertwined. harry is a good wizard, but he is only truly powerful against voldemort.

and dumbledore didnt have to go killing voldemorts horcruxes because he was too weak to fight him... its because if he didnt, voldemort would just come back again.

Actually, the real only reason Harry could beat Voldemort is because Dumbledore allowed himself to be bested in a duel of wands by Draco Malfoy, who was then defeated by Harry -- making him the true master of the Elder Wand. Voldemort failed to realize that Harry couldn't be beaten with what was effectively his own wand, and his spell backfired and killed him.

[Deathsknight]

Well with the full knowledge of gandalfs oath you find that not only is he oathbound to not use power vs power to take down sauron a lot of his knowledge was sealed to start with.(when he comes back he seems to regain much of that knowledge) Read all the books including the extra books and u get a large history as to why things are done this way. (the valar realized that the way they handled the war with morgoth at the end of the first war was a mistake as it was a show of massive force) So gandalf basically gets limited on how to handle things. I suspect there is also a curse should he turn his back on the oath as Saruman seems to fall further and further in power to the point of only having his voice left. Even before gandalf snaps his staff he seems to of lost power.

[Throren]

Gandalf for sure, if you say otherwise then you obviously don;t know much about him.

[Deleted]

Gandalf, although for some reason he almost never used any spells and liked to just bash things with a sword. Still a lightning bolt would kill as fast as a killing curse I suppose and HP wizards were just humans with magic powers. Even if there was a spell against that, it hits too fast.

Actually that got me thinking:P Why didn't any of the wizards in HP use guns? I think they could have fired them a lot faster than pointing a wand and saying magic words.

[OrcsRLame]

Gandalf, although for some reason he almost never used any spells and liked to just bash things with a sword. Still a lightning bolt would kill as fast as a killing curse I suppose and HP wizards were just humans with magic powers. Even if there was a spell against that, it hits too fast.

Actually that got me thinking:P Why didn't any of the wizards in HP use guns? I think they could have fired them a lot faster than pointing a wand and saying magic words.

This is why Gandalf doesn't use magic very often. Quote from the Silmarillion.

"In the Undying Lands at about TA 1000, Manwë summoned a council of the Valar to send three messengers to Middle-earth. Two Maiar came, Curumo (Curunir or Saruman) sent by Aulë, and (Morinehtar) Alatar, sent by Oromë. Manwë asked where Olórin was, and he came, after returning from a journey. Manwë asked Olórin (Gandalf) if he would go as the third messenger. Olórin said that he was too weak, and he was afraid of Sauron. Manwë said that that was all the more reason to go, and that he commanded Olórin to go as the third. Then Varda said "Not as the third." Yavanna begged Curumo to take (Radagast) Aiwendil, and Alatar took (Rómestámo), Pallando as a friend. They were forbidden to dominate the peoples of Middle-earth or to match Sauron's power with power. When Saruman, the greatest of the Wizards, disobeyed this injunction, he was cast from the order and banished from Valinor."

[Taurenburger]

Gandalf by far. He's much more powerful than he shows in the films. Dumbledore... Meh.

[Deleted]

This is why Gandalf doesn't use magic very often. Quote from the Silmarillion.

"In the Undying Lands at about TA 1000, Manwë summoned a council of the Valar to send three messengers to Middle-earth. Two Maiar came, Curumo (Curunir or Saruman) sent by Aulë, and (Morinehtar) Alatar, sent by Oromë. Manwë asked where Olórin was, and he came, after returning from a journey. Manwë asked Olórin (Gandalf) if he would go as the third messenger. Olórin said that he was too weak, and he was afraid of Sauron. Manwë said that that was all the more reason to go, and that he commanded Olórin to go as the third. Then Varda said "Not as the third." Yavanna begged Curumo to take (Radagast) Aiwendil, and Alatar took (Rómestámo), Pallando as a friend. They were forbidden to dominate the peoples of Middle-earth or to match Sauron's power with power. When Saruman, the greatest of the Wizards, disobeyed this injunction, he was cast from the order and banished from Valinor."

He actually used magic a lot in the Hobbit and for stupid reasons or to show off in LotR so that doesnt explain much. For example when he deflected Legolas' arrow. He could have just said he was Gandalf instead of playing Saruman and concealing himself and used that deflect spell to save some lives in a battle instead. He also used chain lightning in the Hobbit to kill goblins at least once.

[Deathsknight]

He actually used magic a lot in the Hobbit and for stupid reasons or to show off in LotR so that doesnt explain much. For example when he deflected Legolas' arrow. He could have just said he was Gandalf instead of playing Saruman and concealing himself and used that deflect spell to save some lives in a battle instead. He also used chain lightning in the Hobbit to kill goblins at least once.

you are thinking of the movies he didn't actually deflect legolas's arrow in the books which are what matters. Most the other magic he uses isn't really all that powerful compared to what he truely is capable of(except vs the balrog) his true power he is not allowed to use otherwise he would of assraped all the way to mordor. Things like throwing firey pine cones in the hobbit don't really count as power.