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  1. #461
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Assuming this is a stand still and fight Patchwerk simulation, and knowing that 191913/205323 = 93.47%, Arcane is probably worse off in a Helter Skelter fight, which is a better simulation of DPS.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/T/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/0/1 | Mafia: 1/6/0/7 | TPR: 0/4/1/5
    SK: 0/1/0/1 | VT: 2/5/2/7 | Cult: 1/0/0/1

  2. #462
    Deleted
    You are all right, but the problem is, they are so many different fights and you can't include all of these options without creating hundreds of simulations. That would be too time-consuming. So, I just focused on patchwork fight which was probably not the best as nearly none of the encounters are patchwork style.
    As i mentioned, this should be a "tentative appraisal" or tendency of 5.2 and simcraft is IMO the only page with PTR data for simulations. Of course you can also wait for raidbot.com data, but ....yeah...preview or why would you use simcraft for :-)

    Nevertheless, T15HC in HelterSkelter style:

    Download: T15HC_PTR_HelterSkelter.html


  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Assuming this is a stand still and fight Patchwerk simulation, and knowing that 191913/205323 = 93.47%, Arcane is probably worse off in a Helter Skelter fight, which is a better simulation of DPS.
    Assuming they are the same T15hc gear setups as they were a week ago.. it runs with these stats as fire t15heroic, and the same for arcane as far as I remember:

    # gear_crit_rating=7873
    # gear_haste_rating=11514
    # gear_mastery_rating=4013

    So neither number are really accurate even if the sims are working perfectly and up to date with all the changes.

  4. #464
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Wow. Arcane didn't fare as bad as I thought in Helterskelter. >_>

    I'm guessing, ABarr, NT/LB, Fire Blast, Ice Lance during movement?
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/T/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/0/1 | Mafia: 1/6/0/7 | TPR: 0/4/1/5
    SK: 0/1/0/1 | VT: 2/5/2/7 | Cult: 1/0/0/1

  5. #465
    And I take it back, seems like latest sims have updated profiles

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 09:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Wow. Arcane didn't fare as bad as I thought in Helterskelter. >_>

    I'm guessing, ABarr, NT/LB, Fire Blast, Ice Lance during movement?
    Well what I can at least say is that Arcane is going to suffer still and that doesn't paint the right picture. Each time you move, you unless loose RoP buff for few seconds or need to recast it at the new location, which will diminish arcane dps like hell still..
    Last edited by mrgreenthump; 2013-03-02 at 09:30 PM.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaikiii View Post
    You are all right, but the problem is, they are so many different fights and you can't include all of these options without creating hundreds of simulations.
    That isn't the problem. The problem as many have tried explaining to you is the fact that the simc profiles for 5.2 are currently broken and being fixed. So its not that your results are just 'not accurate', they are outright wrong.

    We will have to wait for the next few builds of simc before this can be fixed. Posting more pictures of them wont make what you present any more true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Wow. Arcane didn't fare as bad as I thought in Helterskelter. >_>
    And this is precisely why people advise NOT to consider the current state of SimC as any type of evidence. People get the wrong impression based off of faulty data.

    Arcane's simc profile is pretty broken right now and will take some time to fix. Many things need to be fixed before we can start posting accurate results. But hey.. it seems there are people out there who are just more inclined to plaster the pngs all over the place, hoping that if they post it enough it will become true.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-02 at 02:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    And I take it back, seems like latest sims have updated profiles
    They aren't. They are still working off of an old build of the PTR.

    The arcane changes and fire changes are not in the latest simc build. So I'm not quite sure what makes you think otherwise.

  7. #467
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Well what I can at least say is that Arcane is going to suffer still and that doesn't paint the right picture. Each time you move, you unless loose RoP buff for few seconds or need to recast it at the new location, which will diminish arcane dps like hell still..
    If a fight has movement in it then Incanter's Ward's a better choice, as well as a 2s Stun every 60s.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/T/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/0/1 | Mafia: 1/6/0/7 | TPR: 0/4/1/5
    SK: 0/1/0/1 | VT: 2/5/2/7 | Cult: 1/0/0/1

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    They aren't. They are still working off of an old build of the PTR.

    The arcane changes and fire changes are not in the latest simc build. So I'm not quite sure what makes you think otherwise.
    I meant the gear profiles, not the actual mechanics, though on the actual profiles fire is using RoP now, so at least we know why the poor performance there..

  9. #469
    Deleted
    Smaikiii can you do that for the t14hc bis ? the same gear as the 5.1 sim uses but with the new 5.2 changes to see at the start of the patch how the things are?

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by invictusordead View Post
    Smaikiii can you do that for the t14hc bis ? the same gear as the 5.1 sim uses but with the new 5.2 changes to see at the start of the patch how the things are?
    Dunno if this makes sense as every thing is completely outright wrong and won't getting better the more often I post coloured pictures.
    Not to mention that I already warned that the profiles might be "not optimal" and the latest blue post changes aren't implemented. But "not optimal" isnt completely broken - sorry for my efforts. (Check Page 23 with the original post. There is also a wrong t14hc live vs. PTR graphic)

    Sorry, normally not my style :/
    Last edited by mmoc8f28c533f3; 2013-03-02 at 11:46 PM.

  11. #471
    Herald of the Titans Shangalar's Avatar
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    RoP/Invocation testing shouldn't alter results for frost and fire in simulations since both are 15% and one minute now. Simulations aren't more or less skilled in using RoP or Invo.

  12. #472
    Even if Arcane sims a bit higher, I'm going fire. It's not for a love of the spec or anything like that, but rather that you move a bit more during progress until mechanics are second nature, where Fire will lose less DPS moving. That, and anything with adds you'll be better off. Only have 9.2k crit rating, coming down to around 40% crit raidbuffed after crit suppression, but that should be sufficient given okay RNG.

  13. #473
    Brewmaster Rinoa's Avatar
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    Does anyone know how up to date the Arcane sim is, which changes are missing from it?
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  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    RoP/Invocation testing shouldn't alter results for frost and fire in simulations since both are 15% and one minute now. Simulations aren't more or less skilled in using RoP or Invo.
    Yes, but they do alter the results of that HelterSkelter sim..

  15. #475
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    This isn't really a mage issue.. but I'm glad to see that AFFLICTION still destroys everything, and scales like a champ.

    360-540 fight lenght is WAY too short though..

  16. #476
    So i just get a info from Blatty on his stream that All of the mages from Method (top world 25 man guild) are switching to their alts for 5.2 - warlocks boomkins etc. Blatty is still streaming atm if anyone want to come and ask more questions
    Last edited by kirit0; 2013-03-03 at 06:53 PM.

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirit0 View Post
    So i just get a info from Blatty on his stream that All of the mages from Method (top world 25 man guild) are swichting to their alts for 5.2 - warlocks boomkins etc
    Don't you now that the Wolrd first race is just like a war with false information, true information that seem false, rumours, etc ?
    The only serious think that we can have will be the composition of the raid that fall boss.

  18. #478
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    lets stack 10 feral druids and bug the encounter and never kill it again for 4 weeks

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    Don't you now that the Wolrd first race is just like a war with false information, true information that seem false, rumours, etc ?
    The only serious think that we can have will be the composition of the raid that fall boss.
    Not this time bro they are switching for real
    Last edited by kirit0; 2013-03-03 at 06:52 PM.

  20. #480
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirit0 View Post
    Not this time bro they are swichting for real
    Then they are not true mages. I don't see them post here with concerns or help address any issues we might have. If they switch, which I somehow doubt, it'd be based off bad info.

    I predict they will be frost but collect fire BiS gear and switch to fire. You'll see ridiculous numbers from fire once they're in that gear. The sims posted in this thread are not just garbage, they are so incredibly far away from what I've seen on the PTR.

    If people are switching characters based off them, they aren't very bright.

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