[MoP] Protection Paladin Guide

[Xs]

Your 60k for normal modes is still a very low number, even off-specing some normal MSV I could get considerably more than that

They just need to bite the bullet and remove "traditional" tank plate; allow STR to give parry, maybe even at an increased rate, similar to AGI-> Dodge conversion for leather tanks. Tank plate is archaic and dated, and avoided by Prot pal and a significant portion of DKs who favor accuracy/mastery from DPS or hybrid itemization.

Warriors should also care more about 'dps' plate, not to the same extreme as Protadins and DKs but, still no love for tank plate at all anymore

Would like to see them just simplify tanks into active mitigation DPS machines, remove all pure defensive stats and slightly rework Revenge style mechanics, with a much higher emphasis on active mitigation and timing based systems. Imagine if playing a raiding tank was more like playing an action RPG or Fighting Game, how much better would it be to feel like you could, given a high skill level, reduce damage taken on every major boss mechanic by a significant margin?

[Nairobi]

Your 60k for normal modes is still a very low number, even off-specing some normal MSV I could get considerably more than that

60k would be a total AP level of 80k, so ~55k in vengeance assuming decent levels of gear and the AP raid buff. Yes, we all know you (and everyone else) can get more AP than that. 60k was a number I put out for AVERAGE vengeance levels in a tier that facilitates lots of 2-tanking, and was low on purpose. If it is causing that much of a stumbling block in the discussion, I can edit the post to put it up to a higher value. The point was to illustrate that it can and does scale with AP.

Would like to see them just simplify tanks into active mitigation DPS machines, remove all pure defensive stats and slightly rework Revenge style mechanics, with a much higher emphasis on active mitigation and timing based systems. Imagine if playing a raiding tank was more like playing an action RPG or Fighting Game, how much better would it be to feel like you could, given a high skill level, reduce damage taken on every major boss mechanic by a significant margin?

Isn't that what the AM system did already?

[Deleted]

60k would be a total AP level of 80k, so ~55k in vengeance assuming decent levels of gear and the AP raid buff. Yes, we all know you (and everyone else) can get more AP than that. 60k was a number I put out for AVERAGE vengeance levels in a tier that facilitates lots of 2-tanking, and was low on purpose. If it is causing that much of a stumbling block in the discussion, I can edit the post to put it up to a higher value. The point was to illustrate that it can and does scale with AP.

One does not simply state a random number on the paladin forums!

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[Nairobi]

One does not simply state a random number on the paladin forums!

23

Random is as random does, I suppose. I took an average of +120k Veng (while tanking) and baseline 24k AP (no Veng) and split the difference to account for things like tank swaps, phase changes, etc. Sadly, it seems that the primary point was lost in translation.

On a related note, the lightning strike SHOULD be affected by CoE-type effects, correct?

Also, 17.

[Deleted]

Random is as random does, I suppose. I took an average of +120k Veng (while tanking) and baseline 24k AP (no Veng) and split the difference to account for things like tank swaps, phase changes, etc. Sadly, it seems that the primary point was lost in translation.

On a related note, the lightning strike SHOULD be affected by CoE-type effects, correct?

Also, 17.

Yeah, it should be affected by CoE effects. Would be weird if it was not.

72

[MerinPally]

Does anybody else miss the damage-focused 2-piece set bonuses? I enjoyed the +fire damage on the T12 set. With the larger focus on tank DPS output, maybe they could go back to that particular design standard to highlight the duality of a tank's responsibilities. Obviously, they'd still have the DPS bonus as the 2-piece, because it puts less emphasis on it, with the major defensive bonus as the 4-piece.

I miss it. Then also, people would actually take tier gear because whilst a lot of prot paladins do take tier gear, a decent amount don't at all until after everyone. If our bonuses are deemed that useless to us that we don't bother using them then maybe a change is needed and that kind of change would make sure we fight for it - if it was any good and benefited from haste in some form.

[Xs]

Isn't that what the AM system did already?

It does, but we still have Dodge and Parry leeching from the system, would make tanking more interesting if dodge and parry where rolled into active mitigation and would allow for easier Plate itemisation

[Restorection]

So which is better for gemming and forging now, Haste or Mastery? After hit/exp cap of course.

[Nairobi]

Still. Haste.

As mentioned three times in the last 3 pages.

Haste = DPS, HoPo gen, ShotR uptime, heals increased
Mastery = ShotR power, block increased.

[MerinPally]

So, to reiterate:

Follow the stat priority posted if you are raiding. The guide is actually a guide, it does tell you the best way forward and it gets updated quickly whenever something changes so it's rarely out of date.

@Fhi - told you

[Soloz]

first raid of 5.2 was a little awkward, I know we are decked out in heroic gear and this is normal modes but does anyone else feel like its lfr? lol I think the worst so far was council, we pretty much just ran around like headless chickens and the boss fell over. Was getting a few tank deaths on megara though, always just before we get on the last head.

[MerinPally]

first raid of 5.2 was a little awkward, I know we are decked out in heroic gear and this is normal modes but does anyone else feel like its lfr? lol I think the worst so far was council, we pretty much just ran around like headless chickens and the boss fell over. Was getting a few tank deaths on megara though, always just before we get on the last head.

The tier hasn't begun until you get onto heroics #controversial statement. But still, sounds like you're having fun doing it which is what matters

[Xs]

first raid of 5.2 was a little awkward, I know we are decked out in heroic gear and this is normal modes but does anyone else feel like its lfr? lol I think the worst so far was council, we pretty much just ran around like headless chickens and the boss fell over. Was getting a few tank deaths on megara though, always just before we get on the last head.

If you where doing heroics before you're supposed to be doing heroics now

[Toatx]

Quick question for you guys. I'm the melee lead for my guild and we currently use loot council for loot. I'm just curious if i should be expecting the prot pally in the guild to be wanting all str/haste gear? I get that haste is good, but what about things like trinkets?

[Promdates]

Quick question for you guys. I'm the melee lead for my guild and we currently use loot council for loot. I'm just curious if i should be expecting the prot pally in the guild to be wanting all str/haste gear? I get that haste is good, but what about things like trinkets?

In general yes. You should expect him to want anything with hit/exp/haste/mastery on it, this goes for trinkets too (although, theres like 2-3 good trinkets)

[Absintheminded]

Speaking of "out of date" with the Eternal Flame buff it's nothing if not at least closer to SS than what it was. Any word from Merin on his thoughts on how they compare now? I've been using EF, but then again I'm just leveling my pally and the new HoT is pretty sick.

[Xs]

The HoT is nice, but I'd still say that Sacred Shield is better for progress

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Stopping damage happening is still better than healing taken damage back up.

[Absintheminded]

Stopping damage happening is still better than healing taken damage back up.

Well, the point is that it has an internal cooldown and doesn't stop a % of all damage (just x damage every 6 seconds, preachin to the choir I know), so it's uptime/downtime is probably pretty consistent with EF's.

[Rivin]

Well, the point is that it has an internal cooldown and doesn't stop a % of all damage (just x damage every 6 seconds, preachin to the choir I know), so it's uptime/downtime is probably pretty consistent with EF's.

The problem with the HoT is that if you take damage, a healer is going to heal it back up--either because they saw you take damage and cast a heal, because you already had a HoT from them on you, or because the healer was already casting a heal in anticipation of you taking damage (or boredom). Therefore, the HoT ends up overhealing a lot, whereas Sacred Shield generally won't be wasted.