Whats 5.2 DPS Sims Looking Like? Unholy or Frost

[Shiira]

Free runic power from anti magic shell is a factor, but something is clearly broken with death knights in this version of simcraft.

I haven't taken a hard look at the data myself yet, but something just isn't adding up here. Even without ams or cleave dw frost is not as low as 166k in bis gear.

[fangless]

Free runic power from anti magic shell is a factor, but something is clearly broken with death knights in this version of simcraft.

I haven't taken a hard look at the data myself yet, but something just isn't adding up here. Even without ams or cleave dw frost is not as low as 166k in bis gear.

Totally.

Sidenote, I did 230k on Tortos, got me 20th for Frost. Unholy DK in our group did 195k, good for 21st. Same ranking per spec, but a huge gap behind. Unholy AOE is still lacking something.


edit; most of the sims in the list of all specs were done in T15 heroic gear which we don't have yet, we could fall off quickly as everyone reaches that point. maybe?

[Friberg]

is it worth loosing 4p t14 to get 2p t15? my early tests shows i loose dps. is the t15 2set better for unholy then for 2h frost?

[Laroux]

is it worth loosing 4p t14 to get 2p t15? my early tests shows i loose dps. is the t15 2set better for unholy then for 2h frost?

Getting rid of the old tier for the new should be a priority if you are unholy.

[Rothulean1]

The issue here is 2H versus DW frost, not frost versus unholy. It's a more subtle difference, but DW wins on cleave and mobility due to greater mastery.

Its still an issue with Unholy. 2h Frost is further ahead of DW, but still a fair amount ahead of Unholy as well.

[Shiira]

It's ahead according to simcraft.

How much do you trust simcraft when it says that dual wield frost is literally the worst spec in the entire game?

[Rothulean1]

When its a 10k lead? I trust simcraft enough to know even Unholy disease cant make up that sort of difference.

[Gabbynator]

pretty sure with 4 pc t15 all spec will be close because the worst spec for 4 pc is 2h frost

[Rothulean1]

No, not really. Its worth 2% for all specs.

[Emote]

Frost is going to be better on most fights due to their burst capability, regardless of what sims show. DW frost may even be better than 2hand on most fights due to the amount of adds and aoe required in the new raid

[Deleted]

How much do you trust simcraft when it says that dual wield frost is literally the worst spec in the entire game?

That's pretty much the point. I participated in the first 10/12 kills of our 25man raid this week and I was always in the top 3 dps as a DW DK. Average ilvl for all of us is between 512-517.

There is NOTHING to worry about right now when it comes to DW dps. My unholy comrade performed pretty weak though.

[fangless]

That's pretty much the point. I participated in the first 10/12 kills of our 25man raid this week and I was always in the top 3 dps as a DW DK. Average ilvl for all of us is between 512-517.

There is NOTHING to worry about right now when it comes to DW dps. My unholy comrade performed pretty weak though.

You're not in 535 gear though, that's what the profiles are running.

We may be fine now, which is great for normals. But as you get more and more 535 gear, it seems like we don't scale well.



We'll see in the coming weeks I guess :P

[Shiira]

But as you get more and more 535 gear, it seems like we don't scale well.

My data from heroic testing on the ptr indicates otherwise, but as you said we will see.

[fangless]

Well, I was just basing it on the Simcraft list of all specs, since that was with 535 gear, and us being so low. But in T14 gear, without the tier bonuses and meta gems, maybe we're just fine?


I wouldn't worry too much about how we do in T15 heroic gear, since if we suck that bad, I'd imagine we would get tweaked by the time most people got to that point.


sidenote: having all of your raid dps be trolls makes the couple beast bosses largely a joke :P

[broodax]

I've said this before, but sims for current gear are just as bad for DW and Unholy. I do not know if there's anything wrong with simcraft - I think it's relatively unlikely, but it's possible.

If anyone can post actual data that would be awesome, I would, but unfortunately our logs are private - what I'm seeing is unholy and DW neck and neck on single targets, and DW of course is ahead on burst aoe.

[Kapaya]

What is Ganaza's action list? That's a huge difference.

Heard this is Ganaza during live encounters.

[Deleted]

unholy still shit on , go 2h frost. only bosses where unholy is viable are council and tortos.
dw only possible on really heavy aoe fights, weapon scaling as bad as unholy.

[Revenantparadigm]

unholy still shit on , go 2h frost. only bosses where unholy is viable are council and tortos.
dw only possible on really heavy aoe fights, weapon scaling as bad as unholy.

Rather than write Unholy off without without providing any reason as to why I'd suggest that one looks at actual data.

The first preliminary raidbots information is coming through; albeit the sample size is too small to make any definite conclusions. In addition this thread (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8177737912) has actual data on comparative DPS performance.

I'd suggest that those after intelligent analysis of the performance of our competing DPS specs follow these two sources (and others) closely.

[Saybel]

Just had a look at the 2h Frost sim to see if anything funny is going on, found something interesting.



Basically put, the damage values of Obliterate and Frost strike seem low for T15 HC gear

World of logs isn't working for me, can any highly geared 2h DK's check their numbers VS these ones to see what their average obliterates are hitting? I'm fairly certain I average around 240k~ with KM procced and PoF up, and much higher during banner, and 190k-200k without PoF, while the profile is averaging at about 200k for obliterate over the entire fight.

Obliterate as I recall, scales incredibly well with weap DPS, the difference between my weapon for example, and a 535 weapon should be larger than this.

edit: for reference, the average crit for obliterate over all the iterations ran is 280k, which again, seems low.

[Gabbynator]

[QUOTE=Minxyqt;20463517]Just had a look at the 2h Frost sim to see if anything funny is going on, found something interesting.

soul reaper crit 72k only? must be an error