"Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
Juseeh
T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28
OK holy shit. Ret thread not the mages are doing poorly thread. Stop it
That's not hardcore....
And well set bonuses do look nice and good, trinkets however look pretty horrible and should bring us backwards. In regards to being gods, I strongly doubt it and disagree. Active dmg/burst cooldown class can only scale that far. Lack of strong passive dmg every other class gets will be the bane of that belief.
Another thing is lets look at those actual set bonuses: 0set you have one important filler during CDs = hammer, 2set you suddenly have 2 = hammer + exo, and when you finally get to 4set you have 3 = hammer + exo + cs. So let's think again and take into account those crazy haste levels. You can instantly see how active dps style backfires. No matter how much haste you have 1 global will never become 2, so you're stuck sailing the I can't dump all important resources boat. While I do personally like the set bonuses alot, since they will do great good for our sustained dps, but ye let's not get carried away since during the burst their mechanics do backfire on each other and become somewhat "counter-productive".
Good Rets (or well ANY other class tbh) will always have space/slot in any raid/enviroment (yes even 10man). Problem is not that however. Main problem is average players + beginners (new people) starting with shit spec.
Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-03-09 at 02:42 AM.
The CD situation isn't as horrible as you are making it sound. Regardless we should find out if Exo debuff or a holy TV would be better during wrath spam, Then you can't ignore censure either with 30%+ haste levels. Then we will need to see if it double dips increasing hand of light through HoW+6% and HoL+6% twice.
I'm sure a super powered TV doing the extra damage would be nothing to scoff at either.
Honestly though with 4 set and the cooldowns abilties will have at late tier haste levels. I'm not worried about anything, least of all sustained.
AoE is still a concern but what can you do. Maybe i can beg to sit ontop of horridon when hes EZ mode farm status :P
Last edited by anaxie; 2013-03-09 at 03:19 AM.
Pretty sure they said somewhere that neither of the setbonuses will double dip HoL. And CD situation is basically 25% uptime for us , so it is rather big portion of >total damage<.
Only class thats worse than ret @ scaling meleewise = DK, hence their truckton of buffs this tier.
Actually GC confirmed that HoL will be affected. Well of course have to test.
No surprise since HoL is increased by 5% spell debuff afterall.
Nelda let me tell you antoher reason the 42-50% haste threshold is so amazing. If you use say... AHK I'm pretty sure most people are spamming HoW ect. even with .3 sec left on it's CD. However, At these haste levels 1 sec GCD links with alot of FLAT numbers. at that Value CS is a FLAT second almost, HoW? Flat, Judge? Flat
All these .3 .4 .5 secs of wasted time build up alot. When our haste gets to a point where We have 1 second GCD, and WE HAVE flat second abilities not 4.8 Sec hammers but 4 second hammers. We are going to see ALOT of returns on this. The GCD is rets resource afterall.
42% haste is reachable with Full BiS non thunderforged. TF some amazing slots like weapon? Belt, Hands, Rings, anything. Haste bulks up more. If VP+ returns well climb well into the 45% haste area ect. Hopefully these metas attacks are able to count as procabble attacks. Would help a ton with these RPPM trinkets.
Last edited by anaxie; 2013-03-09 at 03:49 AM.
It still doesn't affect the real problem which is scaling with gear/stats/w-e. Our 4set during cd "clusterfuck" is the exact same reason why DKs scale poorly (overflow of resources). GCDs don't scale esp on such minor numbers. Passive dmg like whites/deep-wounds/poisons do. All we got to show for it is GoaK (10% uptime lawl, and well censure). Poor trinket design is really big issue too considering how much % of our total dmg is burst.
Ret do look really good now for progress because all we got were flatout buffs in all areas (AE, SotL, free minor boost via old t14 4set). But scaling problem will remain, that's why simcrafts may not be accurate and all but they do tell the tale (because ye its math,which even if innacurate shows the real picture).
Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-03-09 at 03:56 AM.
I don't know if ppl actually took time to look but the simcraft has the old 4set bonus of the lightning strike damage that would have taken place of the TV making TV do less overall damage then hand of light. Which also means it would be an overall increase in damage since a holy tv would do more then a lightning one for obvious reasons. Cheers.
by my estimation its about 17850
---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 07:55 AM ----------
you guys answer fast tonight
To address our 2/4pc bonuses, maybe we can push the idea of having them add in HotR and somehow add DS to it as well. Just so that our bonuses arent punishing us for AoEing.
First of all, normal mode.
Second of all, US top 50? are you kidding me? go check eu+us top 50 and check the number of rets vs the number of other dps specs.
Third of all, if you actually have rets on the top of your meters this tier your guild dpsers isn't up to par. Only fights where ret should be "high" on dps is Jin'Rokh and maybe Horridon if we're allowed to sit on the boss to abuse the stacking damage taken debuff on him.
Ret, while not being totally unviable, is a drag to any guild who's gonna push ranks this tier. That's not jibberish/QQ, that's a fact. When progress is over in a month or so we'll get help from blizzard, probablly a Divine Storm buff (although I do see GCs point with ret's being quite potent with clumped aoe) the thing is that rets is "meh" in everything we do and top guilds would rather take someone who's awesome at ONE thing in order to push a boss kill.
---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 11:30 AM ----------
Locks make me sick atm, in a month or so fire mages and warriors will do the same thing, fucking multidotters and crit scaling specs... every fucking expansion they blow up at some point and become OP as fuck...
---------- Post added 2013-03-09 at 11:33 AM ----------
While I agree with you completely you'd be silly to take tier over shadow priests and locks this tier, they'll demolish everything sadly. I've already passed on all conq tiers so far because the dps specs we share tier with are so much better.
Question about the trinkets:
Currently using normal Final Orders + Relic of Xuen (both fully upgraded). Should I be bothering with any of the normal mode ToT trinkets? If so which one? Surely worth replacing Relic with one of them at the very least? Also askmrrobot is listing the VP vendor trinket as BiS which is obviously wrong, but is it worth using at all?
Wish I had a working brain for this shit haha.
"Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
Juseeh
T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28