I think this just means they'll have scaled dungeons, getting rid of the need for heroics. Imagine a level 90 version of every dungeon ever made.
The playerbase changes too. Once upon a time the playerbase was satisfied with content being made for only 5% of the players, that being Naxxramas. We were satisfied doing nothing but farm Twilight Documents in Silithus all day so that we could earn some money. WotLK drastically changed up the playerbase, because suddenly everyone got access to everything, and people have only gotten more demanding since then, going from "This is too easy!" to "This is too hard!" to "Dungeons fuck up progression" to "Dungeons are the best thing ever!"
Blizzard has constantly juggled around with different things to see how the playerbase reacts to it, this is probably another one of those, and I'm a supporter of this idea.
The space between Cata and MoP was 2-3 months smaller than the space between WotLK and Cata.
My bad for saying they can develop something everyone can enjoy. Obviously that's wrong.
But really I'm still trying to hammer my point home. How many people here actively do scenarios over and over because they enjoy them? I know, literally, no one like that. I do them once for the story. I bet you, statistically, if someone were to be assed to find out, that dungeons have a far higher re-playability factor than scenarios.
These excuses like new heroics 5 mans would make the older content obsolete, it's hypocritical. Just now, the upcoming 5.2 LFR is going to make the 5.0 raids minus heroics obselete, because the gear is also better.
For me, it all just comes down to them being lazy. They'd rather rehash a zone they already made and put part of it into a scenario, than design something completely new. I don't log in every day and do scenarios. Hell, I don't even talk to people in scenarios. I get the biggest idiots in scenarios. In 5 mans, at least the ones in late cata, I felt they were a lot more social. They gave me more of a social experience. LFR is the same raid just tuned down. 5 mans would be something new.
And as we all know, that's hard work and bad and shouldn't be attempted. After all, development time should be saved for more dailies and scenarios.
Dungeons haven't really been social ever since the introduction of the Dungeon Finder. And 5.0 raids won't become obsolete, since you need to do them to get good enough items to progress to ToT. It's like with Vanilla where you went ZG&AQ20->MC&Onyx->BWL->AQ40->Naxx, you can't just jump into ToT directly, unlike with Dragon Soul & ICC you could swoop right in there because new heroics handed out gear to you that was of Firelands and ToC quality, but much easier to get.
If the choice were between piss-easy scenarios and piss-easy dungeons, I'd frankly rather have the easy scenarios, as those take much less time.
And I actually like assault on Zan-vess. The first part is kinda fun. The only ones I really dislike are brewing storm (more because of the layout than anything) and brewmoon festival (Unga Ingoo is a little annoying too)
Lazy Nothing. I'm pretty sure isle of thunder, isle of giants, and the new raid took much more work than 4.3 and all its dungeons did.For me, it all just comes down to them being lazy. They'd rather rehash a zone they already made and put part of it into a scenario, than design something completely new
Cata dungeons were fine, and I'd love a return to cata dungeon difficulty.In 5 mans, at least the ones in late cata, I felt they were a lot more social. They gave me more of a social experience. LFR is the same raid just tuned down. 5 mans would be something new.
However, blizzard has made it staunchly apparent with MoP heroics that that is not the path they are taking with dungeons, which is why I'm not too keen on seeing a lot of time invested on them.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
But nonetheless, it's a step in the right direction. If they continue to reduce the time in between an expansion's final patch and the launch of another expansion by 2 or 3 months for each expansion, eventually we'll hit a good time in between where we don't have to wait for too long. Sometimes it takes a long time to turn a wheel around, can't just happen instantly.
The way it has been handled in the past was that the heroics got a tier for itself, leaving us with only one raid to do. It went 4.0 HCs->Troll HCs->HoT HCs->DS, skipping all raids in between. Your suggestion could be a solution, but I think it'd feel odd to go from 5-man HCs to raids to 5-man HCs to raids again.
Yeah, I loved the Cata launch HCs, not so much the Troll or HoT ones, but I loved the difficulty of the launch ones. Seeing how half-assed heroics have become, I don't care for them and would hate for them to take time away from good raids, like they've done in the past.
Last edited by wariofan1; 2013-03-09 at 10:45 PM.
To be honest, my main gripe is about having something to do in between the raids. Look at it this way, you have 5 mans now (the least amount of 5 mans introduced ever, for MoP) and you do them until the last raid patch, then for everyday needs (valor etc.) you do the new dungeons, and it's less boring for me because it's something new.
The New LFR is something you do weekly, not daily. You go in, try your luck at gear and get out. So really, my main concern is, what is there gonna be for me to do daily that can fill the void of new 5 mans?
I didn't really mind the troll ones (was always focused on getting the bear mount,) but yeah, the HoT ones were... ehhhhh... End Time was okay; it had fun boss fight mechanics, but Well of Eternity was a hugely wasted opportunity, and the hour of twilight dungeon itself should have just been a phased storyline quest in dragonblight...
What I fundamentally don't understand is why Blizzard keeps putting out "heroic" dungeons, when they continue to be the only iteration of said dungeon (Like most of the MoP dungeons.) If players are so concerned with max level dungeon difficulty, that's where NORMAL max level dungeons should fit into the mix, with heroics being... well, heroic dungeons. Everyone keeps their content.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
We'll see how far they are with the next expansion at Blizzcon, hopefully they'll have worked quite a bit on it by now, however, I'm not holding my hopes too high. Unlike WotLK and Cata I enjoy MoP and will have lots of things to do on alts before the next expansion hits, where as by the end of those two expansions I only had one raid to do and some heroics, here I'll have a bunch of raids instead. To me, that's a good trade-off. Plus, they say that the unannounced feature of 5.4 will give us plenty of content, let's hope so.
Yes, but really, the HoT heroics were that bad.
HoT felt like what could have been a scenario these days, with unmemorable and easy boss fights, included with bad RP and stupid lore. WoE really wasn't that bad, but it really hurt to see the potential be thrown down the drain, plus the Mannoroth battle was stupid. End Time all depended on what shrines you got to go to, I love the Baine encounter, and the Sylvanas one was also okay, but the Jaina and Tyrande rooms were tedious and badly designed as they got boring too fast. The main reason I didn't enjoy the rehashed ZG and ZA was that they had taken such a big step down in difficulty, and they were the only new content for quite a long time, and rehashing ALL of ZA was a bad move. It just dissapointed me so much because I loved Grim Batol, Blackrock Caverns, Vortex Pinnacle, Stonecore and so on.
Last edited by wariofan1; 2013-03-09 at 10:56 PM.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
It's an assumption based on history. At the start of Cataclysm when we were coming out that long tier of ICbloodyC we were told "Oh no, never happening again, we are going to have faster and faster expansions" and then we had Dragon Soul. It's nice that you are so confident that 5.4 will bring enough content to sustain us till th next expansion, but I think most of us will believe it when we see it.
Blizzard completely changed directions with their content schedule in the middle of Cataclysm; I'm sure that slipped them up more than anything.
Plus, I do believe they have said they have one of their coveted "teams" working on the next expansion? I seem to remember them saying they always have one team working on one patch, another working on the patch after it, and the next expansion.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.