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  1. #281
    Brewmaster CrossNgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroEdgeir View Post
    And when Blizzard announces the next expansion and it's release date for like March 2013 (6 months after an estimated Sept release of 5.4, if thye keep things on the same timetable as current) at Blizzcon this fall, then what?
    I'll believe it when I see it, they've promised us faster expansions since the release of Cata, MoP didn't hold up.

  2. #282
    I think this just means they'll have scaled dungeons, getting rid of the need for heroics. Imagine a level 90 version of every dungeon ever made.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    You would've thought that they would've gained enough experience during those 8 years to know how to please most of their playerbase, and as we can see, they did not.
    The playerbase changes too. Once upon a time the playerbase was satisfied with content being made for only 5% of the players, that being Naxxramas. We were satisfied doing nothing but farm Twilight Documents in Silithus all day so that we could earn some money. WotLK drastically changed up the playerbase, because suddenly everyone got access to everything, and people have only gotten more demanding since then, going from "This is too easy!" to "This is too hard!" to "Dungeons fuck up progression" to "Dungeons are the best thing ever!"

    Blizzard has constantly juggled around with different things to see how the playerbase reacts to it, this is probably another one of those, and I'm a supporter of this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    I'll believe it when I see it, they've promised us faster expansions since the release of Cata, MoP didn't hold up.
    The space between Cata and MoP was 2-3 months smaller than the space between WotLK and Cata.

  4. #284
    My bad for saying they can develop something everyone can enjoy. Obviously that's wrong.

    But really I'm still trying to hammer my point home. How many people here actively do scenarios over and over because they enjoy them? I know, literally, no one like that. I do them once for the story. I bet you, statistically, if someone were to be assed to find out, that dungeons have a far higher re-playability factor than scenarios.

    These excuses like new heroics 5 mans would make the older content obsolete, it's hypocritical. Just now, the upcoming 5.2 LFR is going to make the 5.0 raids minus heroics obselete, because the gear is also better.

    For me, it all just comes down to them being lazy. They'd rather rehash a zone they already made and put part of it into a scenario, than design something completely new. I don't log in every day and do scenarios. Hell, I don't even talk to people in scenarios. I get the biggest idiots in scenarios. In 5 mans, at least the ones in late cata, I felt they were a lot more social. They gave me more of a social experience. LFR is the same raid just tuned down. 5 mans would be something new.

    And as we all know, that's hard work and bad and shouldn't be attempted. After all, development time should be saved for more dailies and scenarios.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    My bad for saying they can develop something everyone can enjoy. Obviously that's wrong.

    But really I'm still trying to hammer my point home. How many people here actively do scenarios over and over because they enjoy them? I know, literally, no one like that. I do them once for the story. I bet you, statistically, if someone were to be assed to find out, that dungeons have a far higher re-playability factor than scenarios.

    These excuses like new heroics 5 mans would make the older content obsolete, it's hypocritical. Just now, the upcoming 5.2 LFR is going to make the 5.0 raids minus heroics obselete, because the gear is also better.

    For me, it all just comes down to them being lazy. They'd rather rehash a zone they already made and put part of it into a scenario, than design something completely new. I don't log in every day and do scenarios. Hell, I don't even talk to people in scenarios. I get the biggest idiots in scenarios. In 5 mans, at least the ones in late cata, I felt they were a lot more social. They gave me more of a social experience. LFR is the same raid just tuned down. 5 mans would be something new.

    And as we all know, that's hard work and bad and shouldn't be attempted. After all, development time should be saved for more dailies and scenarios.
    Dungeons haven't really been social ever since the introduction of the Dungeon Finder. And 5.0 raids won't become obsolete, since you need to do them to get good enough items to progress to ToT. It's like with Vanilla where you went ZG&AQ20->MC&Onyx->BWL->AQ40->Naxx, you can't just jump into ToT directly, unlike with Dragon Soul & ICC you could swoop right in there because new heroics handed out gear to you that was of Firelands and ToC quality, but much easier to get.

  6. #286
    Brewmaster CrossNgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wariofan1 View Post
    The playerbase changes too. Once upon a time the playerbase was satisfied with content being made for only 5% of the players, that being Naxxramas. We were satisfied doing nothing but farm Twilight Documents in Silithus all day so that we could earn some money. WotLK drastically changed up the playerbase, because suddenly everyone got access to everything, and people have only gotten more demanding since then, going from "This is too easy!" to "This is too hard!" to "Dungeons fuck up progression" to "Dungeons are the best thing ever!"

    Blizzard has constantly juggled around with different things to see how the playerbase reacts to it, this is probably another one of those, and I'm a supporter of this idea.
    My point is that they should keep features for a current satisfied side of the player base instead of removing it.


    Quote Originally Posted by wariofan1 View Post
    The space between Cata and MoP was 2-3 months smaller than the space between WotLK and Cata.
    That is a VERY small time gap, and I'm sure nobody but the nitpickers actually noticed that.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by nerfmagesffs View Post
    So, how long were you subbed this expansion, if only playing for 5-mans? If you are only doing dungeons, you are wasting your money on WoW in my opinion
    If you are a raider, you are wasting TIME !!!! which is far more than $15.

  8. #288
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    My bad for saying they can develop something everyone can enjoy. Obviously that's wrong.

    But really I'm still trying to hammer my point home. How many people here actively do scenarios over and over because they enjoy them? I know, literally, no one like that. I do them once for the story. I bet you, statistically, if someone were to be assed to find out, that dungeons have a far higher re-playability factor than scenarios.
    If the choice were between piss-easy scenarios and piss-easy dungeons, I'd frankly rather have the easy scenarios, as those take much less time.

    And I actually like assault on Zan-vess. The first part is kinda fun. The only ones I really dislike are brewing storm (more because of the layout than anything) and brewmoon festival (Unga Ingoo is a little annoying too)

    For me, it all just comes down to them being lazy. They'd rather rehash a zone they already made and put part of it into a scenario, than design something completely new
    Lazy Nothing. I'm pretty sure isle of thunder, isle of giants, and the new raid took much more work than 4.3 and all its dungeons did.

    In 5 mans, at least the ones in late cata, I felt they were a lot more social. They gave me more of a social experience. LFR is the same raid just tuned down. 5 mans would be something new.
    Cata dungeons were fine, and I'd love a return to cata dungeon difficulty.

    However, blizzard has made it staunchly apparent with MoP heroics that that is not the path they are taking with dungeons, which is why I'm not too keen on seeing a lot of time invested on them.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by wariofan1 View Post
    Dungeons haven't really been social ever since the introduction of the Dungeon Finder. And 5.0 raids won't become obsolete, since you need to do them to get good enough items to progress to ToT. It's like with Vanilla where you went ZG&AQ20->MC&Onyx->BWL->AQ40->Naxx, you can't just jump into ToT directly, unlike with Dragon Soul & ICC you could swoop right in there because new heroics handed out gear to you that was of Firelands and ToC quality, but much easier to get.
    Heroics also need an iLevel requirement for entry. With the way the iLevel is skyrocketing in this expansion, it could be high enough to require doing 5.0 LFR or even ToT, for some new 5 mans.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    That is a VERY small time gap, and I'm sure nobody but the nitpickers actually noticed that.
    But nonetheless, it's a step in the right direction. If they continue to reduce the time in between an expansion's final patch and the launch of another expansion by 2 or 3 months for each expansion, eventually we'll hit a good time in between where we don't have to wait for too long. Sometimes it takes a long time to turn a wheel around, can't just happen instantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    Heroics also need an iLevel requirement for entry. With the way the iLevel is skyrocketing in this expansion, it could be high enough to require doing 5.0 LFR or even ToT, for some new 5 mans.
    The way it has been handled in the past was that the heroics got a tier for itself, leaving us with only one raid to do. It went 4.0 HCs->Troll HCs->HoT HCs->DS, skipping all raids in between. Your suggestion could be a solution, but I think it'd feel odd to go from 5-man HCs to raids to 5-man HCs to raids again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Cata dungeons were fine, and I'd love a return to cata dungeon difficulty.

    However, blizzard has made it staunchly apparent with MoP heroics that that is not the path they are taking with dungeons, which is why I'm not too keen on seeing a lot of time invested on them.
    Yeah, I loved the Cata launch HCs, not so much the Troll or HoT ones, but I loved the difficulty of the launch ones. Seeing how half-assed heroics have become, I don't care for them and would hate for them to take time away from good raids, like they've done in the past.
    Last edited by wariofan1; 2013-03-09 at 10:45 PM.

  11. #291
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    I'll believe it when I see it, they've promised us faster expansions since the release of Cata, MoP didn't hold up.
    MoP isn't finished yet.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  12. #292
    To be honest, my main gripe is about having something to do in between the raids. Look at it this way, you have 5 mans now (the least amount of 5 mans introduced ever, for MoP) and you do them until the last raid patch, then for everyday needs (valor etc.) you do the new dungeons, and it's less boring for me because it's something new.

    The New LFR is something you do weekly, not daily. You go in, try your luck at gear and get out. So really, my main concern is, what is there gonna be for me to do daily that can fill the void of new 5 mans?

  13. #293
    Brewmaster CrossNgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    MoP isn't finished yet.
    It's well known 5.4 will be the last patch of the expansion, and since 5.3 will not feature any new dungeons or raids, it'll be coming up in around 2-3 months, and 5.4 4 months after that, then the year of nothing begins.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by wariofan1 View Post
    I'm glad, heroics that were added later did a splendid job at making raids irrelevant. I'll tell you, I sure as heck would have loved to do Firelands instead of Hour of Twilight, and I sure as heck wanted to do Ulduar instead of Trial of the Champion, but couldn't because those raids were invalidated for the sake of some shitty dungeons. LFR also makes up for the lack of dungeons. I'm happy that raids finally has become the means of progression, because I frankly don't enjoy dungeons compared to raids. It's like with Vanilla and partly TBC until Magister's Terrace was added, you progressed through dungeons, and then through the raids, no in-betweens, they're two different leagues. I will say that the heroics in this expansion could have been more interesting and could have lasted longer, I've just gotten enough item level to go into LFR by doing heroics for a single day on my alt, they could at least make them last a little longer.
    You do realise there was about 5 months inbetween firelands and hour of twilight right.......

  15. #295
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wariofan1 View Post
    Yeah, I loved the Cata launch HCs, not so much the Troll or HoT ones, but I loved the difficulty of the launch ones. Seeing how half-assed heroics have become, I don't care for them and would hate for them to take time away from good raids, like they've done in the past.
    I didn't really mind the troll ones (was always focused on getting the bear mount,) but yeah, the HoT ones were... ehhhhh... End Time was okay; it had fun boss fight mechanics, but Well of Eternity was a hugely wasted opportunity, and the hour of twilight dungeon itself should have just been a phased storyline quest in dragonblight...

    What I fundamentally don't understand is why Blizzard keeps putting out "heroic" dungeons, when they continue to be the only iteration of said dungeon (Like most of the MoP dungeons.) If players are so concerned with max level dungeon difficulty, that's where NORMAL max level dungeons should fit into the mix, with heroics being... well, heroic dungeons. Everyone keeps their content.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    It's well known 5.4 will be the last patch of the expansion, and since 5.3 will not feature any new dungeons or raids, it'll be coming up in around 2-3 months, and 5.4 4 months after that, then the year of nothing begins.
    We'll see how far they are with the next expansion at Blizzcon, hopefully they'll have worked quite a bit on it by now, however, I'm not holding my hopes too high. Unlike WotLK and Cata I enjoy MoP and will have lots of things to do on alts before the next expansion hits, where as by the end of those two expansions I only had one raid to do and some heroics, here I'll have a bunch of raids instead. To me, that's a good trade-off. Plus, they say that the unannounced feature of 5.4 will give us plenty of content, let's hope so.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasoncb View Post
    You do realise there was about 5 months inbetween firelands and hour of twilight right.......
    Yes, but really, the HoT heroics were that bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I didn't really mind the troll ones (was always focused on getting the bear mount,) but yeah, the HoT ones were... ehhhhh... End Time was okay; it had fun boss fight mechanics, but Well of Eternity was a hugely wasted opportunity, and the hour of twilight dungeon itself should have just been a phased storyline quest in dragonblight...
    HoT felt like what could have been a scenario these days, with unmemorable and easy boss fights, included with bad RP and stupid lore. WoE really wasn't that bad, but it really hurt to see the potential be thrown down the drain, plus the Mannoroth battle was stupid. End Time all depended on what shrines you got to go to, I love the Baine encounter, and the Sylvanas one was also okay, but the Jaina and Tyrande rooms were tedious and badly designed as they got boring too fast. The main reason I didn't enjoy the rehashed ZG and ZA was that they had taken such a big step down in difficulty, and they were the only new content for quite a long time, and rehashing ALL of ZA was a bad move. It just dissapointed me so much because I loved Grim Batol, Blackrock Caverns, Vortex Pinnacle, Stonecore and so on.
    Last edited by wariofan1; 2013-03-09 at 10:56 PM.

  17. #297
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossNgen View Post
    It's well known 5.4 will be the last patch of the expansion, and since 5.3 will not feature any new dungeons or raids, it'll be coming up in around 2-3 months, and 5.4 4 months after that, then the year of nothing begins.
    That's an assumption that it will be a year of nothing even though there WILL be things to do. You say that from a jaded point of view. It's not like Dungeons are the beauty of MMORPG's and WoW.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  18. #298
    Brewmaster CrossNgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    That's an assumption that it will be a year of nothing even though there WILL be things to do. You say that from a jaded point of view. It's not like Dungeons are the beauty of MMORPG's and WoW.
    Fine then, forget everything that has happened with Cata.

  19. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    That's an assumption that it will be a year of nothing even though there WILL be things to do. You say that from a jaded point of view. It's not like Dungeons are the beauty of MMORPG's and WoW.
    It's an assumption based on history. At the start of Cataclysm when we were coming out that long tier of ICbloodyC we were told "Oh no, never happening again, we are going to have faster and faster expansions" and then we had Dragon Soul. It's nice that you are so confident that 5.4 will bring enough content to sustain us till th next expansion, but I think most of us will believe it when we see it.

  20. #300
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    It's an assumption based on history. At the start of Cataclysm when we were coming out that long tier of ICbloodyC we were told "Oh no, never happening again, fwe are going to have faster and faster expansions" and then we had Dragon Soul. It's nice that you are so confident that 5.4 will bring enough content to sustain us till th next expansion, but I think most of us will believe it when we see it.

    Blizzard completely changed directions with their content schedule in the middle of Cataclysm; I'm sure that slipped them up more than anything.

    Plus, I do believe they have said they have one of their coveted "teams" working on the next expansion? I seem to remember them saying they always have one team working on one patch, another working on the patch after it, and the next expansion.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

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