No new 5-player dungeons in 5.4

[Lumineus]

Hardly a lie. Before Mists I hardly ever saw anyone doing a daily quest after it was out for about a month and all the rewards were unlocked, on Whisperwind. Now, Whisperwind is a launch server and one of the most heavy traffic realms. Where I have to compete with million-gold moneybags for BMAH items. If no one does dailies here, where exactly did they do them? Nowhere. And that's the point. The only reason people will do dailies is to chase the carrot.

So in Mists, Blizzard keeps moving the carrot so people keep doing the same dailies. That's not a good strategy, it just pisses people off. They get burnt out, and curse the developers. And this revelation about dungeons is the same thing. New dungeons with new shinies get people chasing the carrot. But Blizzard just wants you to keep running around the same track, for the same carrot (valor pts).

The fact that right now the best way to gear up a new character for future PvE content, by doing PvE content, is to amass huge quantities of Justice points and convert them to Honor at a 34% loss so you can buy PvP gear, is ridiculous.

[Immitis]

If you read the original quote I said next to nobody in brackets because it's true. For the purposes of the developers not enough people were doing them because THEY ALL FAVORED FUCKING DUNGEONS. Since they all favored dungeons what content do you think people were asking for more of? The content they never did or the content they knew and loved. It so fucking obvious what's happening. NEXT TO NOBODY DID THAT FUCKING SHIT. You tiny minority of daily quest marchers did and since the rewards are so less compelling in 5.2 (in reality less FORCED) you'll see how few fucking people will touch that shit as well. It's so fucking obvious and naked what's happening. I just can't believe the shit they get away with.

yes next to no one did molten front thats why you couldnt step two feet without seeing someone on a flaming hippogryph

[Leonard McCoy]

Hardly a lie. Before Mists I hardly ever saw anyone doing a daily quest after it was out for about a month and all the rewards were unlocked, on Whisperwind. Now, Whisperwind is a launch server and one of the most heavy traffic realms. Where I have to compete with million-gold moneybags for BMAH items. If no one does dailies here, where exactly did they do them? Nowhere. And that's the point. The only reason people will do dailies is to chase the carrot.

So in Mists, Blizzard keeps moving the carrot so people keep doing the same dailies. That's not a good strategy, it just pisses people off. They get burnt out, and curse the developers. And this revelation about dungeons is the same thing. New dungeons with new shinies get people chasing the carrot. But Blizzard just wants you to keep running around the same track, for the same carrot (valor pts).

The fact that right now the best way to gear up a new character for future PvE content, by doing PvE content, is to amass huge quantities of Justice points and convert them to Honor at a 34% loss so you can buy PvP gear, is ridiculous.

Thank you. What einsteins like the guy arguing with me don't seem to fucking get is that if their was such a huge demand for daily content already in place then NO PROGRESSION REWARDS WOULD BE PUT BEHIND THEM. It wouldn't be needed people would be out there doing it already in spades. The reality is that so few people did them but Blizzard needed a more effective way to control progression. Dungeons caused them to many issues and probably cost them to much investment. Dailies are easy and they can pump those suckers out like theirs no tmmrw. Fun be damned. So in an effort to "compel" (Force) players to do dailies they put the reward behind that shit.

---------- Post added 2013-03-10 at 10:37 AM ----------

yes next to no one did molten front thats why you couldnt step two feet without seeing someone on a flaming hippogryph

PRE MOLTEN FRONT. Are you dense? Are you honestly ignoring what I'm telling you? YOu know why they did molten front? WHAT WAS THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MOLTEN FRONT DAILIES AND ALL THE OTHER DAILIES UP TO THE GAME IN THAT POINT? It's called fucking gear. Now THANKFULLY we could still buy valor gear without rep at that point in cataclysm so I skipped that shit and I know a ton of other players who did. Lot's of people did do them though BECAUSE OF THE FUCKING GEAR. And guess what happened in 5.0? Well you couldn't spend the valor without the rep and the rep only came from one place. What does this show us? An increasing effort on the part of the developers to change the content that people consume regardless of the content that people want. In fact it's clear given how shitty the dungeons are for rewards versus how lucrative the daily quests were in 5.0 that this was a massive effort on their part. They recognize that people would rather be doing dungeons for gear so they had to take the gear out of the dungeons and put it behind the content they want people to do. So in the end the majority of players weren't asking for more dailiy content because up until molten core they hadn't been doing daily content. They were asking for more dungeons and raids.

[Immitis]

Thank you. What einsteins like the guy arguing with me don't seem to fucking get is that if their was such a huge demand for daily content already in place then NO PROGRESSION REWARDS WOULD BE PUT BEHIND THEM. It wouldn't be needed people would be out there doing it already in spades. The reality is that so few people did them but Blizzard needed a more effective way to control progression. Dungeons caused them to many issues and probably cost them to much investment. Dailies are easy and they can pump those suckers out like theirs no tmmrw. Fun be damned. So in an effort to "compel" (Force) players to do dailies they put the reward behind that shit.

i guess thats why there isnt any progression rewards theres only a few pieces of gear for casual players

---------- Post added 2013-03-10 at 06:38 AM ----------

PRE MOLTEN FRONT. Are you dense? Are you honestly ignoring what I'm telling you? YOu know why they did molten front? WHAT WAS THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MOLTEN FRONT DAILIES AND ALL THE OTHER DAILIES UP TO THE GAME IN THAT POINT? It's called fucking gear. Now THANKFULLY we could still buy valor gear without rep at that point in cataclysm so I skipped that shit and I know a ton of other players who did. Lot's of people did do them though BECAUSE OF THE FUCKING GEAR. So in the end the majority of players weren't asking for more dailiy content because up until molten core they hadn't been doing daily content. They were asking for more dungeons and raids.

no, has nothing to do with gear and everything to do with mounts.

[grexly75]

Hardly a lie. Before Mists I hardly ever saw anyone doing a daily quest after it was out for about a month and all the rewards were unlocked, on Whisperwind. Now, Whisperwind is a launch server and one of the most heavy traffic realms. Where I have to compete with million-gold moneybags for BMAH items. If no one does dailies here, where exactly did they do them? Nowhere. And that's the point. The only reason people will do dailies is to chase the carrot.

So in Mists, Blizzard keeps moving the carrot so people keep doing the same dailies. That's not a good strategy, it just pisses people off. They get burnt out, and curse the developers. And this revelation about dungeons is the same thing. New dungeons with new shinies get people chasing the carrot. But Blizzard just wants you to keep running around the same track, for the same carrot (valor pts).

The fact that right now the best way to gear up a new character for future PvE content, by doing PvE content, is to amass huge quantities of Justice points and convert them to Honor at a 34% loss so you can buy PvP gear, is ridiculous.

While very true the problem there in is that all MMO's do the exact same thing just in different forms they will be always and ever a carrot chasing endeavour..

[Leonard McCoy]

i guess thats why there isnt any progression rewards theres only a few pieces of gear for casual players

---------- Post added 2013-03-10 at 06:38 AM ----------



no, has nothing to do with gear and everything to do with mounts.

In 5.2 their sure as hell isn't and you'll see daily participation rates drop. In 5.0 that was a different story altogether but the backlash caused them to rethink that. I get the feeling I'm being trolled now. If you think it was only the mounts well mounts were in the game before and it didn't cause a swarm of people to run dailies. It was the gear wether or not you want to acknowledge it.

---------- Post added 2013-03-10 at 10:43 AM ----------

While very true the problem there in is that all MMO's do the exact same thing just in different forms they will be always and ever a carrot chasing endeavour..

Sub consiously I guess you were always aware of it but the biggest thing for me about the daily questing and the double gating of valor is that it really took the illusion away from the game that it was more than that. Moving the carrot just made it so much more obvious that it was in fact a carrot.

[Immitis]

In 5.2 their sure as hell isn't and you'll see daily participation rates drop. In 5.0 that was a different story altogether but the backlash caused them to rethink that. I get the feeling I'm being trolled now. If you think it was only the mounts well mounts were in the game before and it didn't cause a swarm of people to run dailies. It was the gear wether or not you want to acknowledge it.

nope tons of people are doing the thunder dailies because they want a dinosaur, they did the shado pan dailies because they wanted the dragon and the vanity helmet, they did 5.1 for the new gryphons and the story. people did molten front for the mount, they did argent tournament for the mounts, quel'danas was new so everyone did it just cos

[Leonard McCoy]

nope tons of people are doing the thunder dailies because they want a dinosaur, they did the shado pan dailies because they wanted the dragon and the vanity helmet, they did 5.1 for the new gryphons and the story. people did molten front for the mount, they did argent tournament for the mounts, quel'danas was new so everyone did it just cos

No they didn't. They did it because of the gear. If you honestly believe that, then you should be encouraging the developers to remove any and all progression gear out of the dailies. I mean TONNES OF PEOPLE are just doing it for the completely cosmetic items right? RIGHT? Like I'm all for dailies having cosmetic items, I just don't think enough people will do them with that alone and clearly neither do the developers else the gear and charms and rep wouldn't need to be behind it. Else we could keep on having the dailies we always had with the same rewards we always had behind them.

I actually never touched IOQD and you know what that is the only implementation of dailies I like. You never needed to do thema dn still got the reward. It was great.

[Lumineus]

They did Quel'danas dailies because the necks from Shattered Sun rep were best in slot, unless you were in a raid guild that could consistently kill... Entropius. GG.

Even then, there was still a dungeon option for that rep.

[Theendgamelv3]

It would have to be at least equal to the first two LFR wings to be any good at all, though. MSV LFR is only good for weapons and trinkets as is, due to S13 honor gear.

Why does it have to be as good, you can only run LFR once a week, dungeons you can run everyday. Also a lot of people have complained over and over about weeks on end about how they got little to no gear in LFR. I doubt those people wouldn't just do LFR and ignore new dungeons. I am also kinda talking about dungeons of the future, not right now.

[Immitis]

No they didn't. They did it because of the gear. If you honestly believe that, then you should be encouraging the developers to remove any and all progression gear out of the dailies. I mean TONNES OF PEOPLE are just doing it for the completely cosmetic items right? RIGHT? Like I'm all for dailies having cosmetic items, I just don't think enogh people will do them with that alone and neither do the developers.

I actually never touched IOQD and you know what that is the only implementation of dailies I like. You never needed to do thema dn still got the reward. It was great.

there arent any progression rewards. the valor gear is perfect for casuals, for some time invested they get some gear they would otherwise never obtain because they dont raid

[Leonard McCoy]

there arent any progression rewards. the valor gear is perfect for casuals, for some time invested they get some gear they would otherwise never obtain because they dont raid

Really? Charms aren't a progression reward? The gear in 5.0 wasn't a progression reward? The ability to spend your valor in 5.0 wasn't a reward? You must be trolling me. I agree the gear isn't good now but that wasn't the case in 5.0 and you will see less people doing these dailies because of it. Dailes will be less "compelling" which in reality means "forced" because those two terms are interchangable.

The simple SIMPLE SIMPLE fact is that if dailies had been good enough to prevent boredom with just vanity items and NO ACTUAL GEAR BEHIND THEM OR PROGRESSION LOOT BEHIND THEM then the molten core dailies would have never needed to happen. We could still do argent tournament dailies for entirely cosmetic things.

[Jinx16]

Everytime you see a Cloud Serpent you are seeing somebody who chose to rep a daily faction all the way to exalted for a cosmetic reward.

[McTurbo]

Just out of curiosity why exactly do people feel new 5-mans are needed?

why do you feel the need for new raids? you had 3 at the beginning of this expansion wasn't that enough for you? .. when you answer this question sensibly then you might find that the same people who run 5 mans want the same thing raiders want.

[Leonard McCoy]

Everytime you see a Cloud Serpent you are seeing somebody who chose to rep a daily faction all the way to exalted for a cosmetic reward.

And I'm sure theirs people who've done exactly that. Cloud Serpent faction was actually REALLY rewarding. Each quest gave a ton of rep and was the least grindy of the factions IMHO. They are still not a huge majority. In fact they are probably dwarfed by the players who did GL and SP and Klaxxi and the other dudes which all had the gear and subsequently got all the focus from players.

Again if dailies served as such a good cure for boredom with the old style of rewards they had behind them, then they wouldn't have needed to put so much reward behind them in this expansion. They weren't a good cure for boredom without the reward (meaning NEXT TO NOBODY FUCKING DID THEM) and to get more players to do them they had to increase the carrot. It's plain and simple.

[Immitis]

Really? Charms aren't a progression reward? The gear in 5.0 wasn't a progression reward? The ability to spend your valor in 5.0 wasn't a reward? You must be trolling me. I agree the gear isn't good now but that wasn't the case in 5.0 and you will see less people doing these dailies because of it. Dailes will be less "compelling" which in reality means "forced" because those two terms are interchangable.

charms barely up the rate it takes to get bis and the valor gear wasnt needed for progression and neither did raiders need to spend valor. they were far from required for anyone not in a top end progression gear, the type of people who will race change or retrain professions for a small edge. for the vast majority of the population those things were what they still are, a small bonus

[alucardtnuoc]

I just wish they would add more incentives to doing server made groups instead of using the LFD tool, promote server communication more instead of "lol anal [Random link]" or some other random thing in trade chat cause they're bored waiting for something to do.

[Jinx16]

I still see many AC and Shado Pan cloud serpents and Klaxxi scorpions, these are rewards for exalted and all the gear is unlocked at revered. There are alot of people who will run dailies for rewards other than gear. I enjoy them for the storyline personally.

[Leonard McCoy]

charms barely up the rate it takes to get bis and the valor gear wasnt needed for progression and neither did raiders need to spend valor. they were far from required for anyone not in a top end progression gear, the type of people who will race change or retrain professions for a small edge. for the vast majority of the population those things were what they still are, a small bonus

Actually yes it was, and yes they do. Not being able to spend your valor in 5.0 was a massive hinderance and I know friends who were turned down from multiple guilds because they didn't have their dailies done.

Again you can't get by the simple fucking fact that Blizzard themselves put the rewards behind those daily quests to lure and entice peopel to do those dailies. If so many people were rushing to do dailies then why the change? WHAT HAPPENED? I THOUGHT YOU ALL LOVED DAILY QUESTS WITH COSMETIC REWARDS? Of course the reality is so few of you fuckign did it that you complained about being fucking bored and the developers responded by putting the gear the slow grindy daily quests.

---------- Post added 2013-03-10 at 10:59 AM ----------

I still see many AC and Shado Pan cloud serpents and Klaxxi scorpions, these are rewards for exalted and all the gear is unlocked at revered. There are alot of people who will run dailies for rewards other than gear. I enjoy them for the storyline personally.

Alot is a relative term. The simple fact is that most of you would probably never even hit revered without the gera behind it mounts or not. If you would then Molten Core dailies wouldn't have had to have gear behind them and neither would 5.0. You'd all be out there in the world with your cosmetic rewards being all happy. Blizzard knows this isn't the case and thus dailies have gear.

[Jinx16]

Im doing the Thunder Island quests everyday. I have zero need for any of the faction gear.