Ban DPS Metres

[Deleted]

If a player enters and start with saying he is new to the game or just dinged 90 or whatever reason i normally give that person alot more slack than one come in and starts the world of excuses when he fails on something again if that person instead says sorry it was my foult again i dont mind it.

What i dont like are people comming in expecting to be carried through with no effort just becouse they are in Blues and some greens and plays the my gear excouse. So i guess its more about how people behave to the giving situation.

[Outofmana]

EVERY class should be able to pull ATLEAST 40k DPS on a boss in greens/blue when hitting 90. If you fail this, then you are just a bad player. And then you aren't being kicked for your bad DPS, you are being kicked for being bad. If this hurts your feelings, then so bet it. But atleast take some wisdom from it, read up on your class/mechanics, and better yourself?

At least 40k is just ridiculous in full greens, you know you lose all hit rating/haste shit while leveling 85-90 so you will infact do _less_ damage than an hc geared lvl 85 doing 85 heroics right? It's pretty easy for let's say an elemental shaman to chainlightning every pack to 70k even in full greens, but for SOME other classes it's just not doable, you ignorant fool./
When I read the ignorance of a lot of people in this thread I'm quite glad I managed to kick ~30 of those kind of people from my hc runs already.

[Deleted]

Don't hate the meter hate the player.

[Deleted]

Pre-90 is something different. but removing meters altogether is a stupid idea.

At lvl 90:
If you can't manage to pull 30k DPS (which is far from hard to manage) in an heroic, you're doing something wrong. And you're holding the group back.

Removing meters won't change that. If a group notices it's going slow, and doesn't have meters to see who's to blame, they might just kick the person with the worst gear, who might be doing just fine while the fully geared guy's just slacking. It also helps to see who's the problem in a raid. Wasn't the healing sufficient, or was it the DPS who took too much damage?

Meters have way too many good uses to remove them.

[Deleted]

Dps meters are a Double Edged Sword, and as others have said, as good as people that use them.

[killidan]

I wish Blizz would ban dps metres, for a example i was a nearly level 90 pally not very good geared as i wanted to start dungeons to get gear to raid, so was happily going through temple of the jade serpant to get new gear and was kicked for having low dps i was below tank and druid dps if i recall, but here is my problem dont you have to gear to get better gear to higher your dps i have to say it put me off doing dungeons and just do scenerios now i never had this problem in tbc or lich king instances

DPSmeter for me is the most fun part of the game. It's like a minigame within raiding/dungeons. The problem lies with the people who use meters to kick new or sub-geared players.

[Asmekiel]

Ban gearscore, ban dpsmeters, ban all the addons

The add-ons aren't the problem, it's the people that don't know how to use them.

[madyaks1]

I wish Blizz would ban dps metres, for a example i was a nearly level 90 pally not very good geared as i wanted to start dungeons to get gear to raid, so was happily going through temple of the jade serpant to get new gear and was kicked for having low dps i was below tank and druid dps if i recall, but here is my problem dont you have to gear to get better gear to higher your dps i have to say it put me off doing dungeons and just do scenerios now i never had this problem in tbc or lich king instances

Terrible idea, meters are a good way for a player to know how good he or she is following rotation, finding what works good, and yes to let other people know what you are doing. Like it or not groups have the right to know if you are carrying your weight or not. You shouldn't be able to hide in the group and suck, it's not being mean to you it's being fair to the others who are doing their job.
And last but not least you aren't going to get good if you don't know you aren't doing good, you will blindly keep pressing buttons that don't do the job.

[Sarella]

The problem is never "not enough dps." It's the fact you are unwilling to participate in a team environment while trying hard enough.
If the game is supposed to be fun for you, why would it be fun for 4 complete strangers to put in twice the effort to cope with your inability to perform, is it fair on them to struggle while they bring you along? Is it fair they have to cope with your refusal to try harder under the guise "I'm a new 90."

With the advent of 450 gear on the ah, you can put together a very nice new 90 set for 2k gold. Is 2k too much? Well, that's another debate then because 2000 gold should be how much you make from going to 90 (down on the old 4500 for Cata levelling). But you'd prefer to buy flying? So you chose to be a burden on people in dungeons because you prefer to fly in Pandaland than start on a better footing to "gear up for raids"?

DPS is not the be all and end all, not even close. But in a dungeon environment, where mistakes are not punished, it's all about the numbers you put out as to how easy it is to cope. With healers' mana being diminished per encounter or over time there's a limiting factor of how much atrocious play can be tolerated - Imagine if the tank and 3 dps were all playing like the ret pally who was a fresh 90 (I assume he meant to say newly hit 90 doing Jade because noone would try to gear up at 89 doing Jade) it'd be a wipe when the healer ran out of a mana.

And another wipe
And again, but it's okay because the Paladin's behaviour is excused.
And another wipe
This would continue if we allowed people to just "enter a dungeon and do whatever they wanted."

Never confuse "new" with "not bothering to try", it'll only end in nobody running dungeons without preformed groups.

[Terridon]

You haven't provided key info: how much were you behind them? if they did 40k and you did 35k and you got kicked, they were elitist jerks. Queue again. If they did 40k and you did 8k, the kick was well deserved. Try and read about your class, 8k isn't a gear issue.
Calling for a ban on meters is like calling for a ban on marathon stopwatches.

I'm inclined to agree. I really dislike to see somebody do 8k. It's not even trying, no matter which class you're playing.
That said i don't kick them. Just telling them to read up on their class.

But I find the "Oh, there there..." attitude here very strange. Yes, some people behave like asshats in LFD/LFR, but "I got kicked once, now I wish Blizzard would ban dps meters" isn't exactly the epitome of niceness either. Not exactly different behaviour...

True :P

EVERY class should be able to pull ATLEAST 40k DPS on a boss in greens/blue when hitting 90. If you fail this, then you are just a bad player. And then you aren't being kicked for your bad DPS, you are being kicked for being bad. If this hurts your feelings, then so bet it. But atleast take some wisdom from it, read up on your class/mechanics, and better yourself?

When you ding 90 you're able to do approximately 40k+ DPS in your very first dungeon. And no I'm not pulling that number out of my ass, I know it from my own experience which was very recent. Of course you need to do your rotation reasonably well for this.
I never got kicked or laughed at or talked about with this.
But then there are people out there who manage to do only 10-20k DPS on level 90, which is extremely low and makes a dungeon run take way too long. In such cases, those players are likely to be kicked because they underperform so much.
DPS varies a bit depending on class and encounter of course, but it doesn't vary that much.
.

Not all classes can pull 40k from start.
I pulled 60k as demon lock in instances at lvl 88, but something like 25k as affliction at 90.
Had missed that i could apply dots in one go, but overall i couldn't pull 40k. Needed haste, and my gear didn't have any of that. I didn't sim him there, since i knew i would have a lot better gear so shortly after that it didn't matter, but overall i'm doing close enough to my max dps on bosses, to feel i know my classes.
Druid were the same for me. I leveled it in dungeons, so the gear wasn't very good. Got into a group of highly geared people that liked me despite my damage being somewhat sad, so i got several runs, and 2 trinkets, which put my dps up to 42k, but before that i couldn't reach it remotely, which frustrated the hell out of me, since the damage were below what i did in cata :P

Several other classes are in the same situation, so i'dd stil say you're both just pulling numbers out of your ass.

if you do less dps than a tank the problem is not the dps meter, it's you.

you are being carried so hard if you do less dps than a tank that it's not even funny and I would without a doubt kick anyone that doesn't out damage the tank.

Tanks do incredible damage. Specially of they can get to pull a lot of mobs.
Vengeance is a huge boost, and if the tank wants to use that, you don't have much of a chance to outdps him overall, with both of you having levelinggear, unless you play a class with great aoe-burst.
Have been discussed endlessly, so i'm just going to asume you just came back the the game, and wanted to put your 2 cents.

I was still learning my ret pally rotation as never levelled one before, and was in some mop greens i was doing about 12k damage i know its low but as i said i was still learning my class and trying to gear up and i explained this to the group before we started and they just lol'd at me and continued to do the dungeon

12k is where you should just go look up the rotation, and then go to a dummy and spend half an hour on that.
Gives you an easier environment to learn the rotation, and the half hours time is quickly saved, from doing the dungeons faster.
That being said, i think you've been unlucky. I've run a stupid amount of dungeons in MoP, and only twice had people wanting to kick others for low dps, and neither of the times the person got kicked, while i've had several 8k dpsers.

Tbh low dps but high active uptime is not leeching, just bad gameplay.
I loath afkers a million times more.

AFKers makes me rage. Fine with me to be low on damage. It's not really like you need the dps anyway, but don't openly afk. Even if people are just whitehitting they still have to move around, making some effort.

Or i look at skada and in 1 second see damage and dps.......

Recount have it too. Standard is to have it listing people after their real damage, and then you can read the dps.
I don't hope any ever change to the other option, with sorting after dps. Personally i don't know any doing that.

[allevia]

I like to use dps meters to know how well I am doing. If while using them I find someone doing "low" dps, then I'll inspect the meters more, to see what is going wrong. If I know the class, I'll offer advice on how they can improve their dps, and if they accept it and improve even slightly, I carry on. If I get abuse off them, or they don't improve, then they'll start being a target for a kick.

[Aeriedk]

The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.

Ding ding ding. I'm glad someone said it. The community is full of them. When gearing up one of the best things you can do is join a friendly guild and run dungeons with new friends

[BananaHandsB]

The problem isn't the DPS meters, the problem is assholes.

Exactly right. This whole...I got kicked, therefore dps meters need to be banned from wow entirely...come on now you can't be serious. Doesn't that seem a bit ridiculous to you?

[Xisa]

Wouldn't it be better to ban terrible players?

[Deleted]

Ding ding ding. I'm glad someone said it. The community is full of them. When gearing up one of the best things you can do is join a friendly guild and run dungeons with new friends

It works both ways, sometimes its the assholes that would rather not try and let the 4 other people do all of the work.

[Wildtree]

Banning is the wrong word imho... Removing the number display entirely would be the right description.
For all to be seen would be a health bar, no numbers in it. Would it be more challenging to kill targets in raids? Possibly. But that's what you hear all the time. The content isn't hard enough. Well there it would become hard enough without adding anything to the encounter at all.
Many say that the problem isn't the addons, but the people who use them. That's true. But it doesn't help the situation when 9 out of 10 people can't interpret them correctly.
Or when people don't know how the damage output of the classes isn't linear. Some do decent damage earlier already, some get the power a bit later. And there's tons of factors to be counted to measure the performance of a group member.

OP had bad luck. I rather pity those who are obsessed with their meters. In 5 man dungeons, I don't even bother to load mine. They are useless right there.

---------- Post added 2013-03-10 at 10:14 AM ----------

It works both ways, sometimes its the assholes that would rather not try and let the 4 other people do all of the work.

That's usually those who hate leveling, but sure enough want to have an army of alts, and then take it out on the group by letting the group carry their alts.

People who are genuinely lacking performance are most of the time humble and thankful for helping them. They try their best, and that's what matters. Gotta pay attention to the details, like titles, bits and pieces said in party chat.. All kinds of indications to be found to spot someone who is just lazy and can't get bothered to perform, or someone who tries hard, but just isn't there yet.

[Downtown]

On my Rogue I have stoped doing dungeons for a reason.. in 9/10 of the last heroics I ran for vp cap, I have managed to be 50%+ of every fights damage and total damage for the dungeon. That being said I have seen as low as 3k dps from the dps to as high as 130k dps. Heroics are WAY to short to judge someone for horrible dps. The only time I will say yes to a vote kick is if someone is AFK and hasnt said anything, or is just being an over all idiot, like facepulling as dps. I have also been in as tank and healer(this I stepped out on my own, I couldnt fathom healing people the whole dungeon that stood in bad stuff) There is a fine line to things and learning about your capabilities on your own character first would be a great step. Talking about banning helpful useful tools in the game.. not such a great idea

[Shamburger]

Wouldn't it be better to ban terrible players?

We'd have no community left..... Only 5-10% of the population are actual competent players.

[Deleted]

People who are genuinely lacking performance are most of the time humble and thankful for helping them.

Different experiences I guess, I have never found more than 2 people that have been willing to listen to other peoples help to improve. A lot of them have a "I'm playing the game the way I want to" attitude and don't care if they bring down the other 4 people because of it.

[Viggers]

See, it's people like you pulling numbers out of dark places who are the real problem.

When I hit 90 the DPS calculator showed my optimal DPS at 25K, and I could easily do 23-24K on the dummies.
Yet people would rage-quit from scenarioes (which are made for fresh 90's for gods sake) because I wasn't doing 50K or more.

Sure, the meters are great tools, it's just too bad most people don't use the properly.

are you gearing right? cos 25k sounds very very low for 435 ilvl