My gripe as a fresh 90 trying to raid.

[bionics]

I think the iLvl requirements they placed as a prerequisite for getting into LFR are fair; I understand that you might be knowledgeable about your class and want to get right into the good stuff -- but gear matters a great deal. More so when you go from the 40-man raid based system back in Vanilla where some undergeared people could have been carried to a 25-man environment where everyone's DPS and gear has to be on point.

It doesn't take too, too long and there are ways to bolster certain slots without tearing your own hair out about it. (For instance, I put the PVP trinket in my trinket slot and was able to get in LFR with a few other pieces of Malevolent gear as well.)

[Synstir]

maybe try a game that suits your skill level then, I heard Free Realms are easy enough, you should chceck it out,
they rerward you with nice things too, you don't even need to earn it in the game, just use your credit card and you're golden.

What has the level of ones skill to do with not having enough time?
Care to explain that pls, cause I don't understand the context of your post.

[Leonard McCoy]

hahah yeah sure you are, said the guy struggling to get gear enough to join LFR.
You know what, show me you got balls and do something instead of crying like a little pussy and asking for free epics all the time.

Oh, Godfather, I don't know what to do, I don't know what to do...

YOU CAN ACT LIKE A MAN!

[ZeroEdgeir]

It's not you mists isn't as casual friendly. It's a massive grind and a massive gate in an attempt to make sure you always have something to do but it's made it so that nothing feels like it's worth doing. It's a massive cock up and bringing back linear progression is about the stupidest fucking thing they could have attempted to do.

Massive Grind... yes.

460 is easy ilevel to hit. A day or two in heroics, done. (Even faster if it's an alt, cause you can knock out Klaxxi to Revered in a Day, Exalted in 5).
All 5.0 VP Gear is 50% cheaper now, and 5.1 VP gear is 25% Cheaper (as is the Sunreaver Onslaught gear). 1250 VP (just over 1 week) can also net you a 522 Necklace with no rep work (Shado-Pan Assault: Neutral).
Drop chance for 5.0 LFR gear increased, as are bonus roll chances (something like more than double, so it's apparently around 40% chance). You can, provided you can handle the Isle of Thunder, get up to 20 Elder Coins at a time too (since they can't be traded for now).

You may say linear progression is stupid, but you have the other vocal minority who've been asking for it back. Plus, this does mean that the content Blizzard develops has a life longer than 1 patch, it can actually last a whole expansion.

[Vulpei]

I am gearing an alt, and I find it irritating that I can only have a chance at loot in LFR once a week. I am as geared as I can get from dungeons, and now there is no point in logging in more than once or twice in a week to do LFR. I much preferred when I could run dungeons once a day for loot to gear up to current raid, now I get basically once shot a week for each slot, sometimes less.

[Leonard McCoy]

Amazing. I found it incredibly easy to gear up an alt.
Dinge 90, and within 4 hours had the ilvl needed to do LFR and onwards.
And no, I didn't get *lucky* with drops, it was all shop bought epics and getting items from quests/events etc, and with the account rep item, I had a pretty good amount of rep as well.
So no, its NOT hard to gear up an alt if your relatively smart about it, people just whine like a bitch with a skimmed knee because they aren't dinging 90 fresh and waltzing into the hardest content.

First of all leveling in this expansions was a massive head ache. The quests were boring and lacked variety. Limited dungeons on the way to 90 didn't break it up enough either.
Second if you get through the slog you've got about 2 days of grinding dungeons ahead of you, which is actually imo the best part of mists. it's the most rewarding and gets you to lfr in a decent amount of time. After that it's all grind or rng at that point. All of it is grind grind gring or pray you get a drop in the raid which well I went weeks in 5.0 without a single fuckign thing. I don't consider lfr ready "gearing up".

[Deleted]

What has the level of ones skill to do with not having enough time?
Care to explain that pls, cause I don't understand the context of your post.

If he has no time why the hell he want all this epics for? if he has no time, why he spends all day here and whine about it?
I think the truth is brutal, he's just a really really bad player who would not accomplish anything else then join random 5 man and get some stuff for free. Thats the kind of person who is getting booted out of LFR because his dps sucks so bad.

[Leonard McCoy]

Massive Grind... yes.

460 is easy ilevel to hit. A day or two in heroics, done. (Even faster if it's an alt, cause you can knock out Klaxxi to Revered in a Day, Exalted in 5).
All 5.0 VP Gear is 50% cheaper now, and 5.1 VP gear is 25% Cheaper (as is the Sunreaver Onslaught gear). 1250 VP (just over 1 week) can also net you a 522 Necklace with no rep work (Shado-Pan Assault: Neutral).
Drop chance for 5.0 LFR gear increased, as are bonus roll chances (something like more than double, so it's apparently around 40% chance). You can, provided you can handle the Isle of Thunder, get up to 20 Elder Coins at a time too (since they can't be traded for now).

You may say linear progression is stupid, but you have the other vocal minority who've been asking for it back. Plus, this does mean that the content Blizzard develops has a life longer than 1 patch, it can actually last a whole expansion.

I say it's stupid because it won't appease that vocal minority. The root of their complaint is based on what the game was in tbc and vanilla. Well that time has come and gone and the experience they had in the game at that point in it's history won't come back. forcing tiered progression on everybody won't do that either. They'll still leave or unsub and the "magic" won't be back.

Getting LFR ready isn't geared up. It's the bare minimum as far as I'm concerned. Getting last contents gear isn't also really geared up. Getting THIS contents gear is. I'm not sure why I should be accepting anything less.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 10:58 AM ----------

If he has no time why the hell he want all this epics for? if he has no time, why he spends all day here and whine about it?
I think the truth is brutal, he's just a really really bad player who would not accomplish anything else then join random 5 man and get some stuff for free. Thats the kind of person who is getting booted out of LFR because his dps sucks so bad.

Having time to post on a forum before and even during class isn't the same as having time to sit down and play world of warcraft for hours on end. Also wanting the epics has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with the desire for progression that this game is all about. I agree the truth is brutal. The truth is your one of those children who got mad cause I had gear from dungeons and cataclysm was a "loot pinata".

[Synstir]

If he has no time why the hell he want all this epics for? if he has no time, why he spends all day here and whine about it?
I think the truth is brutal, he's just a really really bad player who would not accomplish anything else then join random 5 man and get some stuff for free. Thats the kind of person who is getting booted out of LFR because his dps sucks so bad.

Oh okay, I get it: You think he is a unskilled player. Right..... I thought you knew.
Well, okay you can assume things but you really don't how skilled someone is.

I my opinion you really don't need to be skilled in MoP, cause nothing is really hard... you just need to have the time.

Do you find the content hard now? Do you think players need skill to do the available dungeons, dailies, scenario's, lfr and to some extend, even Normal raids?

[Sevenfold]

I could do those things with limited time and still get nowhere in terms of progression or reward, where as the guy with the time on his hands could do them and more and get further.

And what's the problem here? Someone with more time on his hands can get more done in WoW. He could also get better at playing checkers or finger painting. That's the way the world works. Besides, you're lying. Or at least grossly exaggerating. You wouldn't not "nowhere". You'd get somewhere. Maybe not as fast as you'd like, or as far as the other guy who spent twice as much time doing the same things, but eventually you'd have something to show for it. So let's not pretend that the game doesn't reward you for time invested. It does.

I'm not offended by someone getting a sense of accomplishment out of a video game. I think it's childish when they get upset that I get gear easy and I think it's childish when they take that to somehow invalidate their accomplishment. The core of my complaint is that activities in the game simple aren't rewarding enough anymore and it's because a minority of children cried loud enough to get the developers ear. wahhhh.

I don't think you're getting the irony here. It's childish for them to be upset that their epics were hard to earn and your epics weren't (hypothetically), but it's somehow NOT childish for you to be upset that they have epics and you don't because, like, who has time for all that? I do like your continued attempts to support your arguments by associating them with this huge yet anonymous and conspicuously absent majority of players, while insinuating that anyone who feels differently than you is a child and because they're not part of your awesome imaginary club their opinions are invalid.

[Libertarian]

I agree OP. Farming dailies and dungeons really sucks and I wish you could buy 476 with justice points.

[Deleted]

Oh okay, I get it: You think he is a unskilled player. Right..... I thought you knew.
Well, okay you can assume things but you really don't how skilled someone is.

I my opinion you really don't need to be skilled in MoP, cause nothing is really hard... you just need to have the time.

Do you find the content hard now? Do you think players need skill to do the available dungeons, dailies, scenario's, lfr and to some extend, even Normal raids?

actually you just made my point. If he has no time and he's doing only the easy fast content, he (or anyone else) DOESN'T need high level raiding gear to complete it, it's easy enough and you don't need to be 500+ilvl

[lanerios]

if you upgraded them all then yes 471 and you could till 5 days ago. also i really wish you people would stop saying that about rng. all gear drops are rng so that isnt a valid argument.

Which isn't possible anymore. So you're stuck at 463, there goes your argument.

[smokii]

It's not you mists isn't as casual friendly. It's a massive grind and a massive gate in an attempt to make sure you always have something to do but it's made it so that nothing feels like it's worth doing. It's a massive cock up and bringing back linear progression is about the stupidest fucking thing they could have attempted to do.

i completely disagree with you

bringing back linear progression is kinda saving the game, being able to jump from dinging level 80 to ICC raiding in 1 day was ridiculous, ok, so it might take a few weeks of shit drops in LFR to get through to the latest raids, but thats the whole point - it forces players to learn the content, learn raid mechanics and kills off a couple of complete fail LFR leechers in the process.

the sense of progression is super important to an MMO - the wotlk catch up mechanisms completely screwed that part of the game, LFR has re-established it - get used to it, cos it wont be leaving.

[Leonard McCoy]

[QUOTE=Sevenfold;20482117]And what's the problem here? Someone with more time on his hands can get more done in WoW. He could also get better at playing checkers or finger painting. That's the way the world works. Besides, you're lying. Or at least grossly exaggerating. You wouldn't not "nowhere". You'd get somewhere. Maybe not as fast as you'd like, or as far as the other guy who spent twice as much time doing the same things, but eventually you'd have something to show for it. So let's not pretend that the game doesn't reward you for time invested. It does.

I'm not offended by someone getting a sense of accomplishment out of a video game. I think it's childish when they get upset that I get gear easy and I think it's childish when they take that to somehow invalidate their accomplishment. The core of my complaint is that activities in the game simple aren't rewarding enough anymore and it's because a minority of children cried loud enough to get the developers ear. wahhhh.[COLOR="red"]

I don't think you're getting the irony here. It's childish for them to be upset that their epics were hard to earn and your epics weren't (hypothetically), but it's somehow NOT childish for you to be upset that they have epics and you don't because, like, who has time for all that? I do like your continued attempts to support your arguments by associating them with this huge yet anonymous and conspicuously absent majority of players, while insinuating that anyone who feels differently than you is a child and because they're not part of your awesome imaginary club their opinions are invalid.

Oh I get what you mean but here's the key. I DON"T CARE WHAT THEY DO OR HOW THEY FEEL. Understand? I don't give a rats ass. I want my time in game to be rewarded. PERIOD. That's it. I don't care if they feel validated or not. I don't care if they want grind or not. I don't give a shit about any of that. My experience in this game is solely concerned with ME. Not with what they have or don't have. You can feel different all you like but the simple fact that somehow you actually care what I can or can't do in a game and it has that much of an impact makes you a child. I don't give a shit that they cleared X heroic raid and had X amazing gear. They on the other hand seem to care a great deal about what I do in my time and what I get out of my time. So much so that they insisted to the developers I should get less out of my time so that they don't feel invalidated.

The problem is that my play style is no longer being catered to. I don't care who's is but if you asked my opinion it would appear yours is. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive but I guess the developers feel that way. I'm not lying, and I'm not grossly exaggerating. For all intents and purposes I would be getting nowhere. I would be spinning my wheels in lfr or grinding out attrocious dailies with attrocious valor points until the expansion ended and I had jack squat to show for it. The game doesn't reward me ENOUGH for the time invested. It really doesn't.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 11:08 AM ----------

i completely disagree with you

bringing back linear progression is kinda saving the game, being able to jump from dinging level 80 to ICC raiding in 1 day was ridiculous, ok, so it might take a few weeks of shit drops in LFR to get through to the latest raids, but thats the whole point - it forces players to learn the content, learn raid mechanics and kills off a couple of complete fail LFR leechers in the process.

the sense of progression is super important to an MMO - the wotlk catch up mechanisms completely screwed that part of the game, LFR has re-established it - get used to it, cos it wont be leaving.

According to sub numbers it isn't saving shit. Now you'll tell me the game is still loosing subs because it's old and then i'll ask you how does appealing to an old school linear progression model ( and adding old school grinds back into the game or attempting to appeal to the good old days crowd) make the game feel less old?

[Crashdummy]

Because you didnt return to World of Warcraft, you returned to World of Dailycraft, where Blizzard didnt make any 5 man catch up dungeon in none of the two patches they released already and they decided to cater to the elitists snowflakes again, so the raids are not easy, they were nerfed just a little when 5.2 came and they didnt turned old valor gear into justice like they did in the previous two expansions (one of which was the most successful expansion to date).

Somehow some "genius" in Blizzard thought that a weekly lockout with RNG invoved was a good catch up mechanism, something any person with 2 neurons know its going to fail.

LFR saved their game in Cataclysm, i dont know what they are going to pull when they realize how much damage they are doing again to the game by catering to the special snowflakes like in the first half of Cataclysm.

They even reintroduced linear progression, which is such a failure as a system that they changed it in the very same TBC with ZA, badges and MgT.

[Libertarian]

I love this "I got mine, F you" a lot of people have in this forum

[Deleted]

Which isn't possible anymore. So you're stuck at 463, there goes your argument.

and why do you think fresh 90 is more entitled to gearing up faster then what we did at start of MoP?
Dude I didnt have 476 gear from the start, I dinged I run dungeons where everyone else also need gear from it, and everyone needed on anything just to boost ilvl (now everyone just disenchant, so it's much easier to gear up). I entered MV without 1 epic on me, and green helmet. There was no LFR at start, and it was massivly gated later on. but I managed, I did dailies, I was running raids every week, I earned it.
Now some guys ding and think he deserve a reward for it, pathetic.

[RickJamesLich]

If you're just playing one toon, gearing up isn't too bad, just do the quests in the dread wastes and that will be enough to get into heroics. From there, grind them out for a few days and do LFR for MSV, wouldn't hurt to buy a few cheap 476 epics - they are pretty cheap by this point (and you should have a lot of money from questing) and you should be able to hit the item lvl to do LFR for HoF and TOES - normal MSV too.

The days of just getting a bunch of easy gear and clearing dungeons and getting into raids on day 2 of hit max lvl are over (not completely, you can still do it if you grind hard enough lol). The reason for the change is because a lot of players were completely clearing all content and had little else to do besides weird stuff like achievements and leveling up a lot of alts. This way, content is spaced out more, you can still be a long way into a patch and have a lot of stuff to see. Not everyone's cup of tea, but personally I think it's great.

[Leonard McCoy]

The game is constantly changed..or if you like it better "moderated". I don't need to encourage ppl to find better games. People leave games and join games constantly. Obviously you cannot please everyone all the time.



I guess that is pretty much the moment to abandon a discussion when the other has to emphasise their point with profanity. You "think" and you "suggest" and you claim to know what the majority and the minority is. You have made it pretty clear that you consider the designers of WoW to be clueless. Which is fair enough. We could probably take you more seriously if I knew on what data, facts or experience other than anecdotal evidence you base those considerations (like..maybe you are a game designer who has worked on MMOs for the last 6 years?)

You realize that you taking me seriously means nothing? In fact it means even less when you base it on such ludicrous criteria. You know what I am an MMO designer and I have all the confidential data from Blizzard and my word is gospel. Does your opinion change? NOPE NOT ONE BIT so you taking me seriously is not only something that I could care less about it's also not even worth discussin past this sentence.

This game doesn't have to constantly change and not every change is for the better. In fact if the change is simple a regression then I think it's safe to say it was a bad change. We'll see what they do in the next expansion.