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  1. #141
    Stood in the Fire Sound911's Avatar
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    I use protein as a recovery, not a meal replacement.

    I don't get enough protein in my diet, studying full time i don't always have the time to cook up a protien filled dinner after gym so i usually have a shake and a normal dinner.

    DON'T, whatever you do, do not supplement real food with shakes and tablets, it's stupid


    to those who are saying whey protein is high in carbs, have you ever had whey protein and/or looked on the side of the tub? lol

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Also "As soon as your pulse raises and your body needs energy it will slowly begin to breakdown muscle for energy through the amino acids." no it doesn't (not straight away anyway), that's what I was saying. It will only get to that stage when you have burnt through all of your carbs and fat and you are completely drained. When you are in this state you won't be able to see properly and will likely feel very ill and light headed. Medical danger wasn't intended to be taken as "You will die" more like you're not doing your body any favours.

    It also seems to be getting heated in this thread, my comments are not intended to be taken in an arrogant manner if that's how anyone sees them. I definitely don't mean to start some arguments.
    Energy expenditure for your body is not a discriminatory process. While glycogen is a primary resource it's not the only one while its available. The important thing to remember is once you eat a food and its digested its differentiated as a energy source, not a macro nutritient. Your body won't suddenly yell "We're out of carbs use to fat now". Doesn't work that way. Your body works best when you eat a variety of food, and that is because your body likes to use a variety of energy sources.

  3. #143
    Protein shakes make good meal replacement because they are fairly low cal, and very filling. So they can go a way towards losing weight if that is your main concern. This is what I use protein shakes for. Be careful to get one with low chlorestoral though if you are using whey protein, especially if you have a family history of heart problems. Some of the whey proteins have an insane amount in there.

    For muscle building, the research shows small additional gains with whey protein. Soy protein shows negligible gains.

  4. #144
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labze View Post
    Energy expenditure for your body is not a discriminatory process. While glycogen is a primary resource it's not the only one while its available. The important thing to remember is once you eat a food and its digested its differentiated as a energy source, not a macro nutritient. Your body won't suddenly yell "We're out of carbs use to fat now". Doesn't work that way. Your body works best when you eat a variety of food, and that is because your body likes to use a variety of energy sources.
    Any citation? That's not I've always read about. Muscle is only burned when it's the last source of energy available, and to get to that you won't have eaten in a while, or have been doing cardio for hours. Again, it all comes down to diet. If your diet is good then you will have the fuel to perform a good cardio workout, whereas if you change to an extreme diet with drastic changes then you will be in trouble.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Any citation? That's not I've always read about. Muscle is only burned when it's the last source of energy available, and to get to that you won't have eaten in a while, or have been doing cardio for hours. Again, it all comes down to diet. If your diet is good then you will have the fuel to perform a good cardio workout, whereas if you change to an extreme diet with drastic changes then you will be in trouble.
    I will just say Labze is correct on this point. Your body burns PRIMARILY fat when doing low intensity cardio. But it still burns muscle and glycogen. When you do HIT, you burn primarily glycogen but you still burn muscle and fat. Your body uses all energy pathways at the same time but the ratio between the pathways utilized varies based upon thermodynamics.

    So, I should retract a bit of what I said. Bodybuilders and strength athletes have more disc degeneration. You will find a ton of sources that show this. What isn't clear is whether the exercise causes the disc degeneration or whether there are confounding factors. Bodybuilders and strength athletes tend to weigh a lot more than other people and higher weight mass has been shown to cause disc degeneration in humans. In addition, lifting has shown to do almost nothing for bone density (which I was really surprised about). So the question is open. I, personally, have seen a lot of older athletes with back issues. So has my father who is a neurologist and routinely cares for people with back pain. Is this back pain or back issues soft tissue or disc degeneration? I don't know. I tend to believe that most disc degeneration is genetic. But if you have disc degeneration and engage in exercises the stress the back (squats), then you will experience back pain.

    Anyways, lifting for health is very different from lifting for mass. People who lift for health are more likely to focus on proprioception to prevent themselves from tripping or falling down and injuring themselves. They are going to focus a lot more on stretching and flexibility. They are going to focus a lot more on unilateral motions and movements that are useful for modern living (meaning, they wont spend time working on their triceps and biceps). They are going to focus upon reaction time and agility training. Bodybuilders focus almost exclusively on the major muscles. Bodybuilders use a lot more machines. Bodybuilders are fond of isolation exercises. Bodybuilders are concerned with symmetry and glory muscles that serve very little function (rectus abdominal). Now, most everything that a bodybuilder does has its use in general health training. But they are the beginning. They are the foundation. If you look at the top athletes in the world, almost none of them even come close to what bodybuilders look like. There are a few exceptions.
    Last edited by jbhasban; 2013-03-08 at 07:21 PM.

  6. #146
    Field Marshal Wiizper's Avatar
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    You guys basically argued for 8 pages wether protein shakes are worth it or not... Just stop here maybe?

    Protein shakes are worth it if you need it.

    The only slight benefit protein shakes will give you is that it gets absorbed just slightly faster.

    If you get enough protein from your normal diet, you honestly dont need a protein shake.

  7. #147
    If nothing else, they're pretty damned enjoyable, and there's not really much of a downside. Throw a banana, some protein, and some almond milk in a blender for 20 seconds and you have a taste little punch of nutrition to drink down before you jump in the shower. Why not drink one after a workout?

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Sound911 View Post
    I use protein as a recovery, not a meal replacement.

    I don't get enough protein in my diet, studying full time i don't always have the time to cook up a protien filled dinner after gym so i usually have a shake and a normal dinner.

    DON'T, whatever you do, do not supplement real food with shakes and tablets, it's stupid


    to those who are saying whey protein is high in carbs, have you ever had whey protein and/or looked on the side of the tub? lol

    I guess you mean don't REPLACE real food with shakes and tablets.

    As SUPPLEMENTING your diet with additional things is far from stupid.

  9. #149
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    Synthe-six is a very nice protein shake and comes in delicious flavours (cookies and cream, chocolate milkshake etc). It's not pure whey protein, but contains a mix of longer release proteins and some complex carbs, generally releases them for around ~6-8 hours or so.

    That's a supplemental type of protein which helps speed things along, but if you want just pure protein then go for some premium whey - more expensive but it can be very helpful if taken properly.

    Or you can just make your own protein shakes. All you need is a blender! Throw in some milk (I prefer coconut milk), some nuts (almonds, hazelnuts etc, contain a LOT of protein) and some bananas. Some people also add egg yolk in them but personally I dont like that, makes it taste a bit wierd if you use more than 1 egg. Very healthy, and very tasty too! And it only takes like 1 minute to make, and is a lot cheaper!

  10. #150
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiizper View Post
    You guys basically argued for 8 pages wether protein shakes are worth it or not... Just stop here maybe?

    Protein shakes are worth it if you need it.

    The only slight benefit protein shakes will give you is that it gets absorbed just slightly faster.

    If you get enough protein from your normal diet, you honestly dont need a protein shake.
    We went a bit offtopic :> But hey, it was interesting.

  11. #151
    Yeah I don't think you should rely on it for a meal replacement. ESPECIALLY if you're trying to put on weight. If you are however, I recommend drinking a shake before bed because it's when your muscles are relaxed, aren't burning calories and are doing the most recovering. That might also help with the bad gas some protein shakes give you! I would take two a day MAX, taking one directly after a workout and one before bed.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by jesse99901 View Post
    If you are however, I recommend drinking a shake before bed because it's when your muscles are relaxed, aren't burning calories and are doing the most recovering.
    This directly contradicts what I've been led to understand; I'm under the impression that the half hour or so immediately after exercise is an increased absorption window for protein and that shakes should be consumed during that period. I could be quite wrong though, I'm not claiming this is a fact.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    This directly contradicts what I've been led to understand; I'm under the impression that the half hour or so immediately after exercise is an increased absorption window for protein and that shakes should be consumed during that period. I could be quite wrong though, I'm not claiming this is a fact.
    You're pretty much on the money. It can take up to 72hours for muscles to fully repair too. From those that do use protein powders to supplement - they recommend Whey pre/post workout as it's fast digesting and Casein proteins (slow-releasing/metabolising) before bed to help keep recovery high during the night hours where you're technically fasting for ~8 hours.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Reqq View Post
    You're pretty much on the money. It can take up to 72hours for muscles to fully repair too. From those that do use protein powders to supplement - they recommend Whey pre/post workout as it's fast digesting and Casein proteins (slow-releasing/metabolising) before bed to help keep recovery high during the night hours where you're technically fasting for ~8 hours.
    Except that numerous studies show this whole "magic window" thing to be much more complicated and not quite as simple as it seems. If you don't workout very long, you dont need a post workout meal if you have a preworkout meal. And a lot of people say 2 hours after is ok.

  15. #155
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    I use a whey protein shake everyday after working out. I don't use it for just the protein, but more for the recovery aspects that it brings. It might be a phsycological thing, but if I don't take a shake after working out, I'm sore for the next three days compared to being ready for another workout 5 hours after having a shake!

  16. #156
    The Lightbringer Toxigen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xl House lX View Post
    So I'm thinking about getting a tub of protein powder because I've been getting a little more intense on lifting and I know protein helps build muscle and all that good stuff, but is it really a necessity? Almost everyone I have ever met that does lifting uses protein stuff of some kind.

    My main concern is losing weight, but if it really could help, I wouldn't mind sacrificing 250-300 calories to help build muscle.
    A lot of garbage here in this thread, OP. Tread lightly around a lot of the "advice."

    Basically it comes down to this: if you're trying to gain muscle mass, you need to eat your body weight (lbs) in protein (grams) each day.

    If you're 185 lbs, you need to eat about 185 grams of protein if you're on a regular 4 day per week split lifting plan. This is really difficult to do unless you eat like a monster OR use a supplement.

    Now, if you're new to lifting and are just learning about proper form and getting your body used to it - I would say wait on the protein supplement until you move from being a pure beginner to having some base knowledge and are set on a workout plan. Any protein that isn't used goes to waste anyway, so if you aren't truly giving it your all in the gym, any extra protein you're paying for via powder is money poorly spent.

    Lastly, and this is the important one: there are a lot of junk protein supplements out there. You need to take a close look at the ingredients list...some go on for miles and have tons of nasty-sounding chemicals / compounds.

    I started with 100% Whey Gold - http://www.muscleandstrength.com/sto...-standard.html, but realized the ingredients weren't exactly friendly.

    I've been using IsoFuel - http://www.muscleandstrength.com/store/isofuel.html - for some time now. Yes, it has sucralose and xanthan gum in it. If you're really anti-artificial sweetener, there are some very expensive options out there that are 100% all-natural. IsoFuel is relatively inexpensive, has an incredibly short ingredients list, and tastes delicious.

    I'm not a super hardcore lifter. I follow a simple 4 day / week plan...I lift in the morning and I have 1 serving before and 1 serving after my workout. That totals about 50g of protein for about 210 calories. I eat my 5 small-ish meals throughout the day. Do I always eat 200g of protein every day? No, definitely not. Its more difficult to accomplish than you'd think. You really have to dedicate to an intake plan like that.

    Just remember, the perfect is the enemy of the good. If you're starting to lift seriously, just find yourself an inexpensive, as-natural-as-possible (the fewer ingredients, the better) supplement and you'll be fine.
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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    Except that numerous studies show this whole "magic window" thing to be much more complicated and not quite as simple as it seems. If you don't workout very long, you dont need a post workout meal if you have a preworkout meal. And a lot of people say 2 hours after is ok.
    I'm a simple man of simple pleasures. I could get uber scientific but I don't. If people want to - let them do so, I personally consume lots of protein and carbs within an hour after doing exercise and for the majority of people - that works.

  18. #158
    you want to lose weight? then no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xBreak View Post
    This post was almost as bad as you.
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    The clueless commentary from the shortsighted peanut gallery is getting to me.
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  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtrooperz View Post
    You have got to be kidding me.

    OP, do NOT listen to this guy, there's no way in hell this dude was a former bodybuilder, they would never talk down protein. Some supplements yes, but protein powder???

    If you have any questions about losing weight, gaining muscle, or anything fitness related, PM me. You can also find me at bodybuilding.com as Shreddedshark.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 03:04 AM ----------



    It's not a necessity. Protein shakes are for people who want to optimize their gains or losses, particularly gains. Fat is not bad, if you're still stuck in that mindset, then you don't have the place to talk.

    IIFYM. If It Fits Your Macros. True through and through. That's why I can't eat whatever I want (to an extent), be 5'11, 172, 7% BF.
    what the fuck

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Reqq View Post
    I'm a simple man of simple pleasures. I could get uber scientific but I don't. If people want to - let them do so, I personally consume lots of protein and carbs within an hour after doing exercise and for the majority of people - that works.
    Same story for me, this is why I never really did much research on it. I drink my protein shake as soon as I get back from the gym, I seem to get results, so I haven't had any reason to change it up.

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