[Mage] 5.2 Hotfix Buffs

[Polarthief]

Even with a buff we still have the right to complain. It isn't all of a sudden sunshine and rainbows. The class provides nothing to the raid, and still has terrible 90 talents that were implemented horribly, and is still around the middle of the charts. The class is not in a good position.

I still don't get people who say we're in a "fine spot". What puts us in a fine spot?

I see you are really the one who knows how many flaws mages have.

To be honest, I agree almost 100% with these issues you stated.

But the question is, do you have faith that these issues will be fixed?

To be honest I do not, I think it is hopeless as these issues are rotted to the root.

Now we argue, cry and QQ, not on how to fix these issues. We are already sitting on a piece of crap, and all we CAN care now is that bull-shit like "dynamic balance mechanism". Yeah, these classes may be craps, but guess what, if you use another piece of craps to fix it, while it will become another piece of crap anyway, sometimes for some weird reason it just does not look THAT bad. And when it looks THAT bad, we cray and replace that piece of crap with another piece of crap, pathetic but effective.

I am sorry but this is the true story.

Before 6.0? No fucking chance in hell.

I have a good feeling we'll be getting an overhaul, much like Locks did for the next expansion though.

---------- Post added 2013-03-14 at 12:37 AM ----------

I died quite early on the council kill, which is why I am very low. If you take a look at the tries before you'll see that I am doing very well; spreading Combustion at the start with Bloodlust is such a DPS steroid on that fight. I cannot see Frost or Arcane being much better.

If you spread Combustion to Kazra'jin (or what'shisface) as well as Sul from Frost King you can easily burst 500-600k DPS in the opener and chunk them all down really hard. I'd highly recommend being Fire on that fight.

Yeah that's what I did tonight. Was pretty sweet

[Deleted]

Brought my puny mage to ToT yesterday and pugged the first 3 bosses. Wasn't a pro group or anything, but I certainly didn't feel like I was holding anyone back, or that mages were underperforming. Granted, Tortos was a complete menace, but we only got a few pulls in and I suspect I need to get used to the rhythm and tweak my playstyle further for that.

494 ilvl with recent buffs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zorozetjffzaz4ly/

In my limited experience, (at least frost) mages seem competitive and viable.

[Zavri]

Not sure if it's the bomb buff or just an increase in gear. Went from i507 to i514 and gained 6% crit. DPS Shot up tonight alot. No damage buffs or gimmick fights I'm able to sustain on average around 125k-135k as fire. If I get insane procs and no movement I can sustain around 150k.

Seems like we will probably be fine once we get tier bonus's. Currently sitting at 37% crit raid buffed and it made a massive difference when I was sitting around 31% crit.

[Kurze]

Last night was significantly better than last week, though in hindsight it was probably due to the combined factors of me a) having a significantly higher crit rating, b) knowing the fights better and c) bomb buff. Of these I think c had the smallest impact.

Was WOL ranking very highly on most fights though, usually 1-10, so not sure how indicative this will be of overall mage well being. Signs are improving though.


EDIT: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/102732/

For reference. Logs were a bit fucked so split into 3 parts.

[Deleted]

Tried Jin'rok and Horridon after the reset yesterday, and here are my results (I'm the mage, of course ). My ilvl is 500 now and I'm specced into Frost. Seeing a small bump in DPS from last week due to increased bomb damage and getting the VP trinket. Was not exactly perfect on either encounter (especially Horridon when I noticed my pet was dead mid fight around 30 second slat maybe). Will be interesting to see how people of similar gear are doing and how I can improve on these numbers (clearly that will happen more naturally as well as I do these fights more)

Jin'rok
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...?s=3035&e=3281
Horridon
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...?s=6232&e=6861

My armory:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...agisize/simple

Next stop, Council

[Zavri]

Last night was significantly better than last week, though in hindsight it was probably due to the combined factors of me a) having a significantly higher crit rating, b) knowing the fights better and c) bomb buff. Of these I think c had the smallest impact.

Was WOL ranking very highly on most fights though, usually 1-10, so not sure how indicative this will be of overall mage well being. Signs are improving though.


EDIT: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/102732/

For reference. Logs were a bit fucked so split into 3 parts.

Nice numbers. 2pc/2pc + Troll race + Heroic sha touched weap 2/2 upgraded + Good 522 proc trinket = Call me mr. smuckers cus im jelly

[mrgreenthump]

Nice numbers. 2pc/2pc + Troll race + Heroic sha touched weap 2/2 upgraded + Good 522 proc trinket = Call me mr. smuckers cus im jelly

Could use another 2-3k crit rating though ^^

[Kurze]

Give me a couple of weeks and I'll get back to you! Still struggling against my pre 5.2 mastery gearing.

[Libretto]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-08...?s=3814&e=4170

Jin'rokh 25 heroic. World of logs is bugged and shows all kills including RF as normal. I dunno, I think we're fine. That is probably a #1 parse for frost on heroic given the fight lengths of everything above me are a lot shorter.

I floated middle of the pack on horridon attempts, but tended to be near the top of all priority add kill targets. After I get a macro set up to hit the direhorn spirit without needing to focus it I should be a fair bit higher.

[mrgreenthump]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-08...?s=3814&e=4170

Jin'rokh 25 heroic. World of logs is bugged and shows all kills including RF as normal. I dunno, I think we're fine. That is probably a #1 parse for frost on heroic given the fight lengths of everything above me are a lot shorter.

I floated middle of the pack on horridon attempts, but tended to be near the top of all priority add kill targets. After I get a macro set up to hit the direhorn spirit without needing to focus it I should be a fair bit higher.

175k seems kinda low for best heroic frost.. our mages did 185-195k as fire. And frost should do more in my mind. But yes back to the actual topic of your post, mage damage has seem quite fine for the first few bosses. But it still remains to be seen on what is the actual truth.

[Malfecto]

To stay on topic: I think the bombs have helped more than we realize. I have noticed a marked uptime in my bomb maintenance, and perhaps this coupled with the increase in damage has helped me. And thanks Rinoa for clarifying that log. I'll give Fire a good solid try tonight.

That said:

I think, and this is just my opinion after reading many threads from here and the official mage forums, there is a significant disconnect both between the players closer to the median iLvL for this new tier and those who are just above or below the median iLvL for last tier. For clarity's sake, I will just say around 520 for this tier and 500 for last tier. The primary reason for such a wide variation in the perception of the class appears to simply be how relative your gear level is to the new content AFTER the nerfs. It is obvious that they tweaked our numbers to coincide with the scaling of the new gear. This is by default going to leave the previous tier in an undesirable state until they can compensate.

I haven't done the numbers yet, and that is something I'm going to do at least for fire, just to see the difference in the main secondary stat, as well as the other secondary stats. Yes, gaining gear improves your crit, but it also improves other supporting stats, and people need to be aware of those as well when comparing themselves to people who are above 510-515 gear level. As this is what I would consider a minority species in the overall mage population, it stands to reason that we see lower numbers in the overall parses (all deviation from low parse population per spec and skill considered), than we do when we look at the top 100 parses. The population claiming, and again this is just my perception, that the numbers are fine are in that higher bracket, and therefore find themselves in the median to upper median dps trends.

At any rate, my rather belabored point is, that this needs to be understood, BY ALL involved in these discussions. Those in the lower level bracket of gear need to understand that things WILL improve as we get gear. This is obvious from the upper gear level trends. You can not ignore these numbers and claim to have a full understanding of the picture. That said, the subjective understanding of this of course is reasonable. No one wants to come into a new tier substantially underperforming in the same gear relative to what they were doing on the flip side of a server restart. On the OTHER hand, those who come in and claim to have a higher understanding of the mage class, prop those claims up with logs of incredible disparity from the median, need to understand that their argument is a misconstrued and insincere comparison. These folks must look past the numbers to see into the meat of the argument from those in the lower tier. To ignore that such a non-linear disparity exists is to simply to propagate a truth of a matter told through a lense of fallacy.

What I would like to see more of in this thread is an understanding from both camps. There needs to be less envy driven hate from the lower camp and more understanding and guidance from the upper camp. If we are not here to help each other out, improve our lot, LISTEN - even if that listening means that you DO NOT or CAN NOT fix the situation, and support each other in a class we enjoy, then we might as well all go our separate ways.

To those who have posted the logs, thank you. On both sides, this is needed to gain an actual perspective. If you are concerned about your dps, please, dig into these logs and understand them. Do not simply bathe in the overall damage number and decry your situation hopeless. On the same side of the coin, those who have a greater understanding, please, do the same and AID those who may be struggling. If you cannot read logs properly, ask for help. If you insist on creating hyperbole or fallacy from the logs posted by taking them out of context, then you are simply not helping, regardless of which camp you are in.

Thanks for listening.

[Methusula]

-snip-

The point many Mages have been trying to make regarding this train of thought, which is already well documented, is that by the time we get the gear to compete, it is already too late to matter. A number of Mages concerned with our current state are trying to progress. That is when our performance truly matters. When ToT is on farm and we finally get the gear to compete, who cares? Being able to compete on farm content is largely irrelevant.

[Malfecto]

I don't think though, Meth, that you have to be at or past the median ilvl for this tier to achieve a competitive edge. I think there is an approach where we markedly improve, especially simply with 2 pc, and that is no where near the end of progression. I have a hard time arguing in favor of your line of thought when there are logs put out by those in the 505-515 range that would support otherwise.

Now, I will agree that below this range, Blizzard dropped the ball because the curve is definitely lopsided when staring up from the lower rungs. As I have said in other posts before, the simplicity of the specs are what create these all or nothing scenarios with power level. That's not something they will fix before 6.0, I wouldn't think. All they can do is nurse our numbers, but I doubt they will do anything that will allow for any substantial outliers in the upper range. So they will be modest changes.

[Polarthief]

The point many Mages have been trying to make regarding this train of thought, which is already well documented, is that by the time we get the gear to compete, it is already too late to matter. A number of Mages concerned with our current state are trying to progress. That is when our performance truly matters. When ToT is on farm and we finally get the gear to compete, who cares? Being able to compete on farm content is largely irrelevant.

Not to mention by 5.3, a CM nerf will hit us hard.

[schwarzkopf]

New hotfixes turned up... don't know what is in them yet. But we can hope

[Methusula]

too bad I can't log on.

[schwarzkopf]

too bad I can't log on.

See - mage DPS is now on par with all other DPS classes. Problem solved

[pmdawnie]

ACtually all they need to do is take the massive nerfs from 5.1 -> 5.2 - and halve them. That would bring us up into the middle of the pack, still not that attractive but at least slightly useful.

We are at the middle of the pack, you're just playing the wrong spec. I know you love it, and will probably never change, but that's the gist of it.

[KoolKidKaos]

I personally love the bomb change, I really saw the difference on Horridon and Council

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...1&e=2597#Chaos
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...4&e=4024#Chaos

But, I do hate it at the same time, being forced to multi dot on fights like some glorified spriest is demeaning.

[Vaelkder]

Why so much QQ? The will RE-EVALUATE Mages once again... as the hot fix says... Calm your titties. I've managed to stay very competitive with the rest of my raid group regardless of the mage situation atm.

What does this person play? A Warlock?

I'm a noob. I admit to being a noob. I REVEL in being a noob, as I have the time to read forums, logs and ask a lot of pertinent questions. I have been playing seriously for five months as Arcane ONLY, not knowing anything about Frost or Fire (I was told to switch to Fire, which I did for two weeks, and I hated every second of it, as I had no clue as to what I was doing, even with super helpful people in the forums [Dragon and Didactic had amazing insights in their posts], so I switched back to Arcane yesterday and tripled my DPS).

I am new to my server, and have already been sat out from the 25-man raid group (Note -- THRONE OF THUNDER!!! Not DS, Not FL, and not MSV, HoF or ToES). I'm not living in the past, as I have not been playing WoW long enough to have a past. The reason that I was sat out was because the ENTIRE Raid Leading Team (meaning the Officers and Raid Leaders in the Guild) feels that a Mage who cannot keep at least 125K DPS is useless in the ToT raids, as a Mage brings absolutely nothing to the "Raid Table" outside of being able to cast Time Warp if someone is dead who would otherwise cast Bloodlust or Hero.

If a Mage cannot get into a position, set up everything and then blast madly away for at least fifteen seconds, then there is absolutely no reason for having a Mage in a raid situation, especially if he/she is not geared heavily (like myself). I don't want to think of the hours which I spent practicing, playing with rotations, gems, reforging and the like, working hard to get my DPS up to the point where I might be considered to be an asset.

When I finally, FINALLY, held my own on Heroic Elegon, with 186K DPS and a final burst-for-kill of 245K DPS, I felt as if I had passed the hurdle in becoming a competitive player. Then 5.2 hits, my DPS drops to 45K and I'm benched. I switch to Fire, as the Raid Leader suggested, and I am so very bad at it that I'm told that I'm never going to be placed on the raid team, as there are Warlocks galore who are bringing so very much to the raid.

So, after looking up what 'QQ' means, as well as all of the other 'short-speak' terms, I find is disgusting that people refuse to look at the real picture and see that a class which should be competitive has been utterly destroyed by the short-sightedness of a very few people, such as Ghost Crawler. I sent a message to him and received a very dismissive and openly demeaning reply, filled with venom and condescending wording, saying that if I didn't like the way that things were done, then I could just leave World of Warcraft.

It makes it doubly distressing to know that the Developers who work for Blizzard cannot perform the simplest of tasks (revamping the different Classes/Specs, streamline the coding, etc) without pretending to be the Lords of Creation who are allowed to belittle the people who are paying their salaries.

I'm going to be attacked on all sides for this one, I'm sure, but I'm hoping that people like the Moderators, Dragon and Didactic will still help us noobs to learn and to progress.

Thank you