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  1. #1181
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    If they could keep adding heroic dungeons as a slower but more reliable way to gear up next to LFR it would be great. It's how it worked in tbc and wotlk and it's how it was successful. Why they ever moved away from the formula I have no clue.

    First tier of heroic dungeons provides emblems/badges that can be used on ilvl 476-489 gear.
    Second tier of heroic dungeons provides emblems/badges that be used on ilvl 489-504 gear.
    Final bosses of heroic dungeons drop gear equivalent to the badge rewards from that tier.
    Challenge modes provide gear equivalent to normal mode raids.

    Voila, I just solved the entire issue of gearing up, retardedness of LFR, ACTUAL CHOICES in gear progression in under a minute. And with very little extra work to go with it ESPECIALLY if they stop forcing dailies/scenarios at the expense of 5-mans.

    And to top it all off I gave players an incentive to actually become better at the game.
    I would play that game.

    I don't have an hour or two to do LFR/quests during the week. I can put in a half hour and tank/heal a 5-man though.

  2. #1182
    Deleted
    My mage just dinged 90 today. How long you think took me to enter LFR? - exactly 4 hours 20 minutes.
    3 dungeons
    2 scenarios
    Sha kill
    Elegon kill
    ring for jp
    archeology trinket
    and 3 cheap peaces of 458 ilvl pvp gear from AH.

  3. #1183
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    My mage just dinged 90 today. How long you think took me to enter LFR? - exactly 4 hours 20 minutes.
    Great, come back here after you have entered 5.2 LFR. Because no one complained about the difficulty of entering 5.0 LFR.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  4. #1184
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Great, come back here after you have entered 5.2 LFR. Because no one complained about the difficulty of entering 5.0 LFR.
    but that's how raiding works, you should know patience is a virtue in that enviroment. Beside who prioritise that? It's just an alt, I don't really feel a difference between doing T14 over T15 LFR, - you go there, you smack few bosses on the head, win some loot or not, end of story. What matters is your main and normal/heroic raiding.

  5. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    but that's how raiding works, you should know patience is a virtue in that enviroment. Beside who prioritise that? It's just an alt, I don't really feel a difference between doing T14 over T15 LFR, - you go there, you smack few bosses on the head, win some loot or not, end of story. What matters is your main and normal/heroic raiding.
    Gearing up from raiding was never this random.

  6. #1186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    With the increased dropchance and the raining of coins I would argue that it has never been less random
    With the option of gearing up outside of LFR effectively gone, I would argue that it has never been less fun at least.

  7. #1187
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    but that's how raiding works.
    But that's not how catch up works.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  8. #1188
    the fact that they think scenarios and daily quests is the future and new 5 mans isnt, just shows the way the game is headed. Hardly anyone like scenarios. And now that we have done 5 mans for 9 fucking years only to be told "fuck your 5 man group. drop 2 of your friends and do our awesome scenarios insted" aint working out yo.

    5 mans are fun. scenarios aint. Thank god we get 3 new mmo's coming out in the future

  9. #1189
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    But that's not how catch up works.
    What do you consider is an acceptable time frame for a fresh 90 tocatch up and enter into 5.2 LFR?

    Currently it feels like Blizzard has decided that a fresh 90 should take about 2 to 3 weeks to be able to enter 5.2 (from my personal experience with a fresh 90).

    What do you consider to be acceptable?
    their moving their table over their
    they're moving they're table over they're
    there moving there table over there

  10. #1190
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow2011 View Post
    What do you consider is an acceptable time frame for a fresh 90 tocatch up and enter into 5.2 LFR?

    Currently it feels like Blizzard has decided that a fresh 90 should take about 2 to 3 weeks to be able to enter 5.2 (from my personal experience with a fresh 90).

    What do you consider to be acceptable?
    Within a week depending on amount of time invested.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  11. #1191
    It's indeed very sad to hear, even more sad to see even some of most stubborn Blizzard defenders to be against this new direction of game.

    And dungeons can be done in way that they aren't used exclusively as gear source (current 5-men can't be used even for this tbh). Make new dungeons drop +1000 rep coins (current daily rep reward for doing dungeons will make you done with rep grind deep in next expansion if you do exclusively by dungeons...), raid consumables, gems, charms, etc. It is not necessary have to be high quality gear to make them appealing. Elaborate those dungeons, so they wouldn't be 1-tunnel + lol-evade all trash between bosses.
    With the increased dropchance and the raining of coins I would argue that it has never been less random
    Tbh I didn't notice that drop chances were increased - it's always gold, gold, gold (and wasn't it supposed to be mixed with some other useful things in 5.2? Also it was always 28g50s, now I get like 26, 27g...). On availability of more coins I agree. Sad that current coins (Mogu runes) are still tied to doing lots of dailies.

  12. #1192
    I think that the catch up speed is just an excuse Gc in it's recent interview explained what the real problem for them is: peoples that take brakes between patches and unsub for a short period of time; but the solution they found was to gate everything behind a grind.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  13. #1193
    New scenarios are fine, becuase they are just a faster way for dps to farm valor since heroic queues are way longer. Yeah, they maybe don't have much more of a point but they work.

    5mans are useless with LFR - you start with heroics, then go up tier by tier. The LFR are the new 5mans with more people in.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  14. #1194
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    New scenarios are fine, becuase they are just a faster way for dps to farm valor since heroic queues are way longer. Yeah, they maybe don't have much more of a point but they work.

    5mans are useless with LFR - you start with heroics, then go up tier by tier. The LFR are the new 5mans with more people in.
    The problem is that LFR will be the only source of group content outside of standard raiding.

    Scenarios don't count until they make some decent changes to them to make the group even matter.

    Currently in 5.2 queue times for LFR (any wing) are averaging about an hour for me. Now, Imagine this at the end of 5.2, after everyone has already got their gear, is taking it easy on raiding till 5.3 and whatever else. 2h queue time per wing does not sound fun to me.

    The fundamental flaw with LFR replacing 5 mans is not the gear, it's the logistics. It simply takes longer to put together 25 than 5 for your nightly fun group runs.

  15. #1195
    Quote Originally Posted by spectrefax View Post
    The problem is that LFR will be the only source of group content outside of standard raiding.

    Scenarios don't count until they make some decent changes to them to make the group even matter.

    Currently in 5.2 queue times for LFR (any wing) are averaging about an hour for me. Now, Imagine this at the end of 5.2, after everyone has already got their gear, is taking it easy on raiding till 5.3 and whatever else. 2h queue time per wing does not sound fun to me.

    The fundamental flaw with LFR replacing 5 mans is not the gear, it's the logistics. It simply takes longer to put together 25 than 5 for your nightly fun group runs.
    excatly right now the queue time for mgv still increasing day by day; i don't want to think after 5.3 and 5.4 how painfull long will be to queue for those in fresh dinged alt, maybe the only way is again to farm pvp gear
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  16. #1196
    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    I think that the catch up speed is just an excuse Gc in it's recent interview explained what the real problem for them is: peoples that take brakes between patches and unsub for a short period of time; but the solution they found was to gate everything behind a grind.
    You people that think that turning the game into a gated grind is intended to keep people from unsubscribing, I don't know what kind of logic goes on in your head.

    No one is going to keep playing the game between expansions to grind a reputation for the 3rd time or to walk a toon through LFR gearing for the 4th time. Blizzard knows that, I know that, and if you don't hold your breath too much, you know that.

    The thing that keeps people from unsubscribing is NEW content, not making the old content take longer to complete. The people who unsubscribe between expansions are ADD types who want new stuff and don't care if they haven't finished old stuff.

    I don't like the way that the gating and grinding works in MoP, but it was designed with the play in mind of people who are going to remain subscribed to the game no matter what. People who unsub between expansions? Blizzard doesn't care about them all that much, because there is NOTHING that can be done for them except delivering new content.

  17. #1197
    Quote Originally Posted by zoefschildpad View Post
    I hope they add a bunch more five-mans to the next expansion if they have to last this long
    This, pretty much.

    If they expect the dungeons at release to last an expansion ... and they know some people enjoy that type of content greatly ... then support that content by adding a ton of it.

    This can be done in several ways, as I've mentioned before.

    work on tuning nearly every dungeon in wow with a max-level version; some heroic/some normal ... keep same gear, alternative transmog path.

    create a decent pool of current xpac-lore related dungeons, 8-12 should suffice for the xpac ... though I think having some that relate to patches felt more engaging and fun lore-wise (wrath had a lot of things right); they let scenarios fill in this role now though (quicker, easier to make for them as well)

    You'd have the ability to queue for xpac dungeons, 'classic' dungeons, or random dungeons in the finder ... possibly taking that a step further and allowing you to select between each xpac's retuned dungeons.

    I am NOT saying revamps like the troll dungeon fiasco. They don't need to change them like they did SFK/DM. I think classic versions of what we had, would be great ... nostalgia for the ones who've been around for years, and a taste of the past for the newcomers. The old fashioned ones could be the normal mode versions, while the updated ones could be the heroic ones.


    This allows them to reuse and reallocate current resources and art; gives the player more variety. This is not in-place-of content, but in-addition-to new content.

    So; new xpac ... 8-12 new dungeons; retuning of past content.

    This could and imo should, be done with raids as well. Key point: leave the current versions untouched. Allow these retuned ones available through the finders exclusively ... so people who want to go solo old content for fun, still can ... those who want to play through the old content somewhat as it was designed/intended, get to see it as such.

    Final addition I think needs to be implemented ... Challenge Mode Raids ... possibly not aimed at speed runs, but absolute brutal difficulty, with gear scaling, and have a timer for those elite guilds to compete against each other as well.


    Mainly, give the game more content for people to enjoy and challenge theirselves with after current tier raiding is finished or on their off raids nights. Choice, variety. Dailies are good. Scenarios are great. Keep them ... but in addition to; give more general content; and it doesn't always have to be completely new lore/art ... just don't go about it the wrong way (troll dungeons - removal of old farm content, revamp, nothing new otherwise).

    They've come a long way with MoP to the mistakes they made in Cata. Still not the game for me; may never be again. I'll always miss BC and mostly Wrath. It may never be something I can enjoy again, but I would like to see the game continue to improve and offer more to the millions who play it

  18. #1198
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    5mans are useless with LFR - you start with heroics, then go up tier by tier. The LFR are the new 5mans with more people in.
    Not really, Heroics were taking less time, which was good for me.

  19. #1199
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Not really, Heroics were taking less time, which was good for me.
    If you're a tank trying to gear up in LFR, well, sorry about that.

    There should be a way for people to queue for more than 3-4 bosses at a time, but then again, that would only lead to the initial queue times become much longer.

  20. #1200
    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    say what? i got no problem joining in as a healer or tank.
    Oh really, you join as a heal/tank and start listening to that whine from two another damage dealers in your party: Spec DD! Stop slowing us down! Noone needs a tank or heal in a scenario, grow up!
    Ruining the holy trinity group (not raid) gameplay is a really dumb move from Blizz. I don't like to play DD, why do I feel forced to play it anyway? (Also, short enrage timers in Brawlers is the very example of the idiotic MoP game design).
    And, by the way, LFR are not the new dungeons. Use your logic here:
    1. LFR is nothing but a ground nerfed copy of a raid content. I'm having enough time playing first normal, than heroic raid tier, and having to play also a LFR tier of the same raid is boring as hell. And average skill of a random LFR conqueror doesn't make it fell better.
    2. LFR has a cooldown - 1 week, while dungeons don't. What are you planning to do when you've done all LFRs in a couple of hours?
    3. Dungeons are a ggod way to just change a scenery and visit some another places. Scenarios won't help here much.
    4. You can play dungeons with a group of friends. You, of course, can queue LFR with your friends, but it is by no way an interesting or challenging gameplay. I mean, anyway you will have all that random LFR conquerors in your group and will be forced to carry them on your shoulders, watching them slack and get epics from every boss while all you get is gold everytime. Frustrating to extreme.
    Last edited by l33t; 2013-03-16 at 09:23 AM.

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