Gearing up in 25m is not faster than 10m

[mstg]

I raid 25m only and I have received 0 loot from 2 resets while being the highest on dkp from day 1. On the other hand, I see people in 10m getting 4-5 pieces of gear already. The biggest factor is of course, the damn RNG. On 25m, there seems to be a tendency of the bosses dropping 2-3 of the same item that people don't even want. And even if what I wanted did drop, there's much more competition to get the gear than if I were in a 10m raid. The items not dropping mean they're gonna get more expensive and the fact that you have high dkp is no longer an advantage.

[Notos]

RNG screwing you over isn't a valid argument. 25 man gets more drops per person, a higher chance for thunderforged items, and there is a smaller chance of loot going to waste because more classes/specs are able to be represented. I've had 10man groups with 0 mail or 0 leather classes and half the drops from the runs be leather and mail. Even if it goes towards an offspec, the drop is still more useful than not being used at all.

[Deleted]

25 mans do gear up alot faster then 10m... giving yourself as an example with a sample of 2 weeks doesnt say shit. The fact that you get upset about not having upgraded any items is more proof of that becuase as a standard 10m raider - you wouldnt even react to that.

25m raiders gets more loot per person in the raid, alot more thunderforged and the risk of items having to be disenchanted is much much lower.

[Shuttle]

Explain why 25 man are about 6 ilvls ahead of 10 man guilds.

Heroic guilds, of course. lolnormal mode

[Deleted]

Guild Item Level Rankings

Rank Guild Realm Item Level
1 Blood Legion (25) US-Illidan 525.58
2 Method (25) EU-Twisting Nether 524.97
3 Exodus (25) US-Mal'Ganis 523.48
4 Экзорсус (25) EU-Ревущий фьорд 523.21
5 Pulse (25) EU-Blackmoore 523.03
6 genuine (25) EU-Blackrock 522.60
7 Envy (25) EU-Auchindoun 522.46
8 Midwinter (25) US-Sargeras 522.19
9 Moonz (10) EU-Destromath 522.13
10 DREAM Paragon (10) EU-Lightning's Blade 522.05
11 ScrubBusters (25) EU-The Maelstrom 521.78
12 Apex (25) EU-Al'Akir 521.74
13 Wraith (25) EU-Sargeras 521.28
14 set sail for fail (25) EU-Nathrezim 521.02
15 Accidentally (25) EU-Burning Legion 520.67
16 Immersion (25) EU-Frostmane 520.38
17 Ascendance (25) EU-Alonsus 520.34
18 Престиж Гейминг (25) EU-Дракономор 520.28
19 Чёрный Лотос (25) EU-Гордунни 520.23
20 Duality (25) US-Zul'jin 520.06
21 Би Негатив (25) EU-Разувий 519.94
22 kinetigger (10) EU-Blackhand 519.48
23 CATASTROPHE (25) EU-Dunemaul 519.45
24 Fragile (10) EU-Twisting Nether 519.42
25 Refuge (10) EU-Eredar 519.27
26 Topped Off (10) US-Illidan 519.12
27 Reckoning (25) US-Mannoroth 519.08
28 КрашТест (25) EU-Разувий 519.04
29 Die Hordlinge (10) EU-Azshara 519.01
29 Demìse (25) US-Kel'Thuzad 519.01
31 Братство Волков (10) EU-Галакронд 518.97
31 Ascension (25) US-Barthilas 518.97
33 Suit Up (25) US-Frostmourne 518.93
34 Advance (25) EU-Azshara 518.90
34 Mira la Performance (10) US-Azralon 518.90
36 Vigil (25) US-Mal'Ganis 518.89
37 Incarnate (25) US-Ner'zhul 518.86
38 Promethean (25) US-Malfurion 518.83
39 Angry (25) US-Illidan 518.79
39 Supermassive (25) US-Turalyon 518.79
41 Flawless (25) EU-Frostwolf 518.74
42 WHATEVER WERE AWES.. (25) US-Magtheridon 518.72
43 Pinnacle (10) EU-Argent Dawn 518.63
44 Центури Трайб (25) EU-Свежеватель Душ 518.57
45 Ad Infinitum (25) EU-Neptulon 518.52
46 Drachensilber (25) EU-Die Silberne Hand 518.38


Yup whatever you say, champ.

[Deleted]

I have received 0 loot

Dont think i have to add more! Don't think this is the proper section as well!

[Razecog]

That makes you that 1 in a million I guess. It's widely known that 25 have a easier time gearing up compared to 10 man.

[Seriss]

If our warrior hadn't passed 2 set tokens to me because he'd not be wearing the one and has good alternatives for the other, I'd also have got no loot for my main spec. And that's on 10-man. I got 2 pieces due to someone in the raid being extremely generous, not due to drop luck.

I did get 2 pieces for my off-spec that I do dailies with though.

This week, we killed 6 bosses so far. That's 12 items. We disenchanted 3, and some more went to people who just took them because disenchanting would be a pity and the items may be swapped in for another gearset or their offspec at some point. In essence, about 50% of the loot is getting used effectively.

I doubt that 25-man has it much worse (well, I actually know they don't have it any worse because loot systems haven't changed that much in the past years and I've seen enough of it). It's all just luck. Last expansion in DS, my alts geared up faster in 10-man than my main geared up in 25s because of insane loot luck. The items I wanted just dropped instantly. My priest had items that my 25-man main hadn't seen drop more than ONCE.

But I've also seen it the other way around in other raids. Some raids just get incredibly lucky and get triple trinket drops of trinkets that EVERYONE wants (oh the glorious day when Sinestra dropped Shard of Woe x3 and I got one!!!)

So, OP: RNG is RNG. With more items being selected from a large loot table, you have at least the chance to see more different items.

[asharia]

unfortunately, just because you had shitty luck, doesn't make it so.

25man drops MORE loot PER PERSON
25man has a higher DROP RATE of thunderforged items (not just more, which is also true, because there are more items dropping. the actual RATE is much higher)
and, of course, the part that is hard to put a value on. because more items drop, and more spec/class variety is present, the rng is less harsh, and less items go to waste.

[Tokru]

I raid 25m only and I have received 0 loot from 2 resets while being the highest on dkp from day 1.

Sounds like a serious issue of "I only take BiS items and pass on everything else even if it is an upgrade"

[Gondlem]

25 mans definitely gear up faster from a purely numeric standpoint. Bad RNG is bad RNG, we killed heroic Primordius for the first time tonight and got three dodge/parry plate tank shoulders (which nobody wanted), two holy paladin shoudlers and a shield.

Bad RNG doesn't change anything though, it's just up to any guild to minimise it by having a decent spread of classes and specs. Overall 25 mans get more loot per person.

[Jeremypwnz]

Sounds like a serious issue of "I only take BiS items and pass on everything else even if it is an upgrade"

I have this issue.

[Deleted]

Sounds like a serious issue of "I only take BiS items and pass on everything else even if it is an upgrade"

This is a good "issue" to have thought, more in 10 man then 25 man due to BiS loot being dropped less often and if i as a moonkin this tier im not gonna go and grab the masteryrobe from council in front of our resto druid simply becuase iv got a worse robe allready. Would be another level of wasting allready tight loot in 10 man.

[Soloz]

Guild Item Level Rankings

Rank Guild Realm Item Level
1 Blood Legion (25) US-Illidan 525.58
2 Method (25) EU-Twisting Nether 524.97
3 Exodus (25) US-Mal'Ganis 523.48
4 Экзорсус (25) EU-Ревущий фьорд 523.21
5 Pulse (25) EU-Blackmoore 523.03
6 genuine (25) EU-Blackrock 522.60
7 Envy (25) EU-Auchindoun 522.46
8 Midwinter (25) US-Sargeras 522.19
9 Moonz (10) EU-Destromath 522.13
10 DREAM Paragon (10) EU-Lightning's Blade 522.05
11 ScrubBusters (25) EU-The Maelstrom 521.78
12 Apex (25) EU-Al'Akir 521.74
13 Wraith (25) EU-Sargeras 521.28
14 set sail for fail (25) EU-Nathrezim 521.02
15 Accidentally (25) EU-Burning Legion 520.67
16 Immersion (25) EU-Frostmane 520.38
17 Ascendance (25) EU-Alonsus 520.34
18 Престиж Гейминг (25) EU-Дракономор 520.28
19 Чёрный Лотос (25) EU-Гордунни 520.23
20 Duality (25) US-Zul'jin 520.06
21 Би Негатив (25) EU-Разувий 519.94
22 kinetigger (10) EU-Blackhand 519.48
23 CATASTROPHE (25) EU-Dunemaul 519.45
24 Fragile (10) EU-Twisting Nether 519.42
25 Refuge (10) EU-Eredar 519.27
26 Topped Off (10) US-Illidan 519.12
27 Reckoning (25) US-Mannoroth 519.08
28 КрашТест (25) EU-Разувий 519.04
29 Die Hordlinge (10) EU-Azshara 519.01
29 Demìse (25) US-Kel'Thuzad 519.01
31 Братство Волков (10) EU-Галакронд 518.97
31 Ascension (25) US-Barthilas 518.97
33 Suit Up (25) US-Frostmourne 518.93
34 Advance (25) EU-Azshara 518.90
34 Mira la Performance (10) US-Azralon 518.90
36 Vigil (25) US-Mal'Ganis 518.89
37 Incarnate (25) US-Ner'zhul 518.86
38 Promethean (25) US-Malfurion 518.83
39 Angry (25) US-Illidan 518.79
39 Supermassive (25) US-Turalyon 518.79
41 Flawless (25) EU-Frostwolf 518.74
42 WHATEVER WERE AWES.. (25) US-Magtheridon 518.72
43 Pinnacle (10) EU-Argent Dawn 518.63
44 Центури Трайб (25) EU-Свежеватель Душ 518.57
45 Ad Infinitum (25) EU-Neptulon 518.52
46 Drachensilber (25) EU-Die Silberne Hand 518.38


Yup whatever you say, champ.

Keep in mind the top guilds run multiple alt runs to funnel gear to mains, the average guild won't do that. Not saying 25s gear slower or anything though.

[Deleted]

Getting no loot in 2 "resets" is nothing special when your guild only kills 3 Bosses per reset (like you said in one of your other pointless threads you start everyday...)...

Nothing else to do?...

[dkdk]

Yup, and because I'm at 5 boss dropped 522's with 1 thunderforged in 2 resets and only killed a total of 9 bosses in 10 man, that must make your argument true.

Oh wait no, that means that I've gotten almost half the loot of my raid and therefore there are 9 other people not getting drops when I do.

[booyakasha]

that's some sample set you drew your conclusion from.

[glycerethe]

LOL I love 1di0ts making their own post with their own r3t4rd3d PoV with a small sample within an even smaller sample.

You raid 10man, when that SINGLE Tier token for that piece just won't drop for you, you'll laugh so hard at yourself, while 25man will get 3 rolls each week.

Expecting to get decked out on the first 2 resets when you're not even clearing the instance, oh the irony.

[scwasp]

I don't quite get your post. You start saying pretty quickly that it's obviously because of RNG and you're unlucky. And the proceed to ignore that fact?`

And if it's true you've only killed the first 3 bosses and someone said. Then the amount of loot you've had drop so far is very low, even if you're doing 25 man.

[cFortyfive]

For whatever it's worth the top looks a lot closer than a decent couple of threads and amount of complaints might have insinuated. The individual isn't guaranteed to gear up much faster in the beginning of content anyways. The raid might - but not everyone. To add a couple anecdotal number - we had a total of I want to say two warrior tokens up until now and never more than a single thunderforged item on a hc kill. We have something around 520 but there are still a couple people that got royally screwed despite being in the regular roster for the lack of rolls or drops for them. Bad rng can just still happen to everyone.