Elemental 5.2 BIS

[Kralljin]

Yes, it could have an error. But who do you think we should assume is wrong? A program written by some of the best players in the world that uses more math than we could ever dream of? Or a random forum player who is guessing and throwing together random scenarios that don't actual mimic any boss fight lengths? I really don't mean to offend, but this is what we're looking at, and you're asking us to ignore the program and math in favor of your argument.

Well, then show me the Math that proves that this Set bonus is a Dps Loss.

Or at least try to find the reason why it's a Dps loss, i seriously doubt that it is some kind of obscure reason that only the Simcraft Dev's can think off.

If you find a solid reason why this Set bonus is a Dps Loss then i will agree with you, but the Dps Loss caused by this Set bonus must have a reason, and that is the thing i want to know.

Skull banner isn't the only thing you're desyncing with. There are lots of other factors as well, including other 3 minute CDs,

Which 3 Minute CD's are affecting Ascendance Dps?

EM? Sit's on a 1:30 Minute CD, but i strongly doubt that you even use it in BiS Gear.
Berserking? That applies only for a single Race, which isn't that much ahead of Orc and considering that the Meta Gem will have a decent Uptime, you can line up Ascendance with this Proc.
Fire Elemental? FE nor Ascendance do affect each other, lining them up with Procs is quite difficult as well because of the RPPM mechanic.
Engi Enchant? With a 1min CD it's quite flexible with lining it up without losing a serious amount of Procs.

trinket procs, tinkers, etc. Most trinket ICDs are set up so that they line up better with 3 minute CDs. 45 seconds, 1 minute, 30 seconds, etc. If you end up with some wacky CD like 2:20, you're desyncing with a LOT of abilities.

ToT Trinkets no longer have an ICD, and the RRPM mechanic is quite random so it will be hard to actually plan to line up Ascendance with Trinket Procs, you may use Ascendance if a trinket Procs but expecting a proc will be difficult.

An increased Uptime of Ascendance increases the probability of covering the same time as a random Trinket Proc does.

[desert-wind]

You only need one assumption... If Ascendance is reduced to 2 minutes by this bonus, it is a dps increase on any fight longer then 4 minutes 15 seconds or shorter then 3 minutes 15 seconds irrelevant of any other discussion.

[Eggwolls]

Looking for help compiling a normal/non-Raden TotT list for an EB build. I'm following Brightleaf's stat balancing so keeping haste/mastery about even. Do I want crit/haste and crit/mastery pieces if there is no haste/mastery alternative? I would assume yes since I'm already over hit cap (so spirit/secondary stat pieces would be less valuable, right?) and barely have any 522 pieces.

Any input would be appreciated. Armory is in sig, click Eggwolls's picture.

[Sarevokcz]

Yes, it could have an error. But who do you think we should assume is wrong? A program written by some of the best players in the world that uses more math than we could ever dream of? Or a random forum player who is guessing and throwing together random scenarios that don't actually mimic any boss fight lengths? I really don't mean to offend, but this is what we're looking at, and you're asking us to ignore the program and math in favor of your argument.

Skull banner isn't the only thing you're desyncing with. There are lots of other factors as well, including other 3 minute CDs, trinket procs, tinkers, etc. Most trinket ICDs are set up so that they line up better with 3 minute CDs. 45 seconds, 1 minute, 30 seconds, etc. If you end up with some wacky CD like 2:20, you're desyncing with a LOT of abilities. Sure, there may be fights where it lines up in such a way that you get an extra 2 ascendances or an extra during a burn phase and it becomes a DPS increase. But on the average fight on simcraft, it's showing as a DPS loss. So I'll be picking up two pieces, letting everyone else get their four sets, and then picking up mine to play around with under the assumption that sometimes I'll want to go back to only the two piece.

well, just looking at the simcraft, I have NO CLUE, why it makes it pop Ascendance on CD. If simcraft can regurarly get Ascendance to 116s CD, then why doesnt it just wait those 4 extra seconds for bloodfury AND it would synergize with Banner at 6th minute, too.

That said, very few people are gonna be able to reliably push Ascendance under two minutes for months to come anyway.

The setbonus value is gonna be different from fight to fight, some fights its gonna be dps gain, some its gonna break even. I noticed Leeds from Method got 4 pieces (3 of them HC at that), so either they dont really have anyone for protectors (unlikely) or they planned to get some use of it on some crucial mechanics or tight dps checks (Animus?)

Of course anyone running 10man without warrior doesnt have to think twice about the setbonus.

[Intrepid1]

I was set on only gettin 2pc but after looking at a lot of shamans in progression guilds they are all wearing 4pc mostly. This may be point to where the math and real world application are totally different. I have a hard time believing almost all the the progression Ele shaman (in 25 man at least) are doing it wrong.

[Kazgrel]

BiS is great and all, but I'm basically taking the old adage we had eons ago in Vanilla: WDF (Whatever Drops First). So many viable options in each slot for this tier that it isn't even funny...not complaining about it, of course. Prefer this faaaaar more than the "zomg Boss 3 didn't drop the only wrist/boots/belt/cloak/etc. that I could use from all 14 bosses this tier" model.

Maybe I'm biased because we get another caster fist weapon once again. :P

[shammypie]

Of course anyone running 10man without warrior doesnt have to think twice about the setbonus.

wtb a warrior, drop a hunter, monk, and other shaman comp (10 man)

[seriouslyshift]

No warrior in my group so looking forward to the 4pc myself.

[Eggwolls]

BiS is great and all, but I'm basically taking the old adage we had eons ago in Vanilla: WDF (Whatever Drops First). So many viable options in each slot for this tier that it isn't even funny...not complaining about it, of course. Prefer this faaaaar more than the "zomg Boss 3 didn't drop the only wrist/boots/belt/cloak/etc. that I could use from all 14 bosses this tier" model.

Maybe I'm biased because we get another caster fist weapon once again. :P

I appreciate this sentiment. I would love to be able to tell my RL that all/most pieces are viable for me (because honestly, they are), but I need to provide a feasible list since I'm in a 25m semi-hardcore raiding guild where everyone wants the same necks/backs/rings. ):