5.3 rogue changes discussion

[Koji2k11]

do u know to read what i have 5 cps on the target then i swap on his healer ( NO DR on another target friend u had your cp on warrior for example and u swap to priest with 5 cps therefore a 6 sec stun without DR

thats the case on live still dont get your point you have to decide either stun heal or stun his partner you have to wait another 20 seconds to kidney someone it would work the same with CP's on rogue

[AwdBawl]

do u know to read what i have 5 cps on the target then i swap on his healer ( NO DR on another target friend u had your cp on warrior for example and u swap to priest with 5 cps therefore a 6 sec stun without DR

The following is taken from WoWwiki:

It should be noted that the server does not reset diminishing returns after exactly 15 seconds. Instead, it checks every 5 seconds if there are any diminishing returns that should be reset because the last spell in their category was cast on the target more than 15 seconds ago. As a result, a particular diminishing return category may take anywhere between 15 and 20 seconds to reset. Most addons guess that a DR category has reset after 18 seconds by default.

Let's consider a duel situation. I have opened on a priest with Garrote, and decided not to use Cheap Shot. I build up 5 combo points and use a full-duration Kidney Shot for 6 seconds, provided the priest has no means of escaping it.

Kidney Shot has a 20-second cooldown. This means that were I to use a 5-point KS on this player again 20 seconds after the first KS, it would suffer no diminishing returns.

There are only 2 reasons you see any diminishing returns on Kidney Shot:

1) The rogue opened with Cheap Shot, then used Kidney Shot within 15-20 seconds.
2) Stuns from players other than that rogue that happen to be in KS's stun category.

Therefore, a single rogue has no way of causing diminishing returns on his own stuns in the first place unless it's the first kidney shot after having opened with cheap shot.

Your argument against full 6-second stuns every 20 seconds is invalid, as this is already possible from a single rogue, provided no interaction from other friendlies.

[Maelstrom51]

do u know to read what i have 5 cps on the target then i swap on his healer ( NO DR on another target friend u had your cp on warrior for example and u swap to priest with 5 cps therefore a 6 sec stun without DR

Sorry, your writing is kind of unintelligible and I thought you were complaining that rogue stuns aren't on DR, when they actually are.

By the way, what I believe you are describing is possible on live right now via redirect and marked for death, although on a cooldown.

[Fiberwire]

is it just me or does others think the 5.3 is a total joke post? i mean its gotta be an early April fools or something... removing pvp resil entirely off gear? really? anyways much agreed on the passive dmg and slice and dice for sure.

[Sesshou]

Therefore, a single rogue has no way of causing diminishing returns on his own stuns in the first place unless it's the first kidney shot after having opened with cheap shot.

Your argument against full 6-second stuns every 20 seconds is invalid, as this is already possible from a single rogue, provided no interaction from other friendlies.

Thats nice... except it is wrong. DR starts when the effect ends. KS is a 6 sec stun with a CD that starts when you use it. This means that your stun is back up with at least 1 second left on DR. So yeah... you can DR your own KS. This is even more obvious if you try it with combat's 8 second stun and I carelessly do it all the time fighting some of the stuff on the new island.

[Exeris]

As an avid PvPer, I would love to see damage shifted away from passive white damage. A more active playstyle than simply juggling buff timers.

Specifically, slice and dice. Get that thing outta here. Boring as hell. Make it a combat-specific ability if need be.

Agree but I think they are scared of the combination of burst and control.

[Evi1Toad]

A CD on deadly throw is most likely to come, a ranged interupt with no CD, I'm honestly not sure how it made it to live. I'm also thinking they will make the CD on cloak 15-30 seconds longer. Less passive damage is something many of the players wanted since the beta, so I see that as rather unlikely to happen, and if it happens it wont be to the extent we want it to be.

I would like more self healing, if only for pve. I feel very squishy and that I have a lot of down time while doing dailies compared to my warlock.

[Feali]

We won't see an overhaul with 5.3. But I hope they rework Rogue with the next expansion. Though I enjoy playing my Rogue very much, I would love Love LOVE to see some fresh air. New mechanics, different style.

[Deleted]

A CD on deadly throw is most likely to come, a ranged interupt with no CD, I'm honestly not sure how it made it to live. I'm also thinking they will make the CD on cloak 15-30 seconds longer. Less passive damage is something many of the players wanted since the beta, so I see that as rather unlikely to happen, and if it happens it wont be to the extent we want it to be.

I would like more self healing, if only for pve. I feel very squishy and that I have a lot of down time while doing dailies compared to my warlock.

Well strictly speaking this is wrong. It has two indirect cooldowns.
Deadly throws cooldown first is basically the time it takes to build up 3 combo points needed for the silence. Second is the dr, if you spam it you will just hit 0sec duration and have to wait for dr reset.

Though i admit its fucking hilarious how i can win against a mage in ranged combat by spamming shuriken toss+deadly throw.
First season the rogue doesnt run towards the mage but from him

On the other side rogue were notorious for getting gibbed by ranged dps once cooldowns are gone so my sympathy is very limited.

[Sesshou]

Um what DR? Silences DR, but I didn't think spell lockouts did. Also the snare effect on DT isn't on any DR either afaik (neither is any other snare I can think of such as crip, hamstring, etc).

[Deleted]

Um what DR? Silences DR, but I didn't think spell lockouts did. Also the snare effect on DT isn't on any DR either afaik (neither is any other snare I can think of such as crip, hamstring, etc).

You're completly right regarding the snare, regarding interrupt i thought they had also dr ? Might be misinformed.

[Deleted]

Revert ST to the 5.1 version pls.

[Deleted]

I pretty much agree with this. It's disappointing to look at DPS logs and see 50% of my damage coming from just Deadly Poison and auto-attacks, and very little coming from Mutilate, Dispatch and Envenom.

This can a blessing. If your specials dont matter that means you dont get penalized as much for not using them= your damage output is more tolerant to disarm and using utility skills instead of your dps skills which is very much to your benefit. The downside is of course that energy pooling has a lesser benefit as a cushion for low uptime on the target.

[Thaendra]

I honestly feel like the problem with DT is the interrupt. They should:

1. Take interrupt off of DT
2. Make ST's buff also allow kick to be usable at ranged

.. problem solved.. kick still has the same CD it would have if used at melee, and rogues using ST would still be able to operate reasonably at ranged vs casters.

[SodiumChloride]

I honestly feel like the problem with DT is the interrupt. They should:

1. Take interrupt off of DT
2. Make ST's buff also allow kick to be usable at ranged

.. problem solved.. kick still has the same CD it would have if used at melee, and rogues using ST would still be able to operate reasonably at ranged vs casters.

Next you will be asking for a pet ... >.>

[Naiattavain]

I don't have time to start from the beginning and i do not want to bore everyone on what needs be done in respect;

a rogues energy cost for combo point generating abilities should be 20 energy.

SS 20 energy RS 20 energy BS 20 energy Hemorhage 20 energy Expose Armor 20 energy Mutilate 20 energy per dagger (40) with the glygh 35 energy. shuriken toss 20 energy FoK 20 energy, dispatch 20 energy


joker works like this mutilate 2-4 CP's mostly 4 with crit and then use a shurken toss 20 energy; 5 combo points envenom rotation.

with combat and sub both have to use eviscerate to get the dps up there like joker. batman is sub. more eviscerates and envenoms what drive up dps with all the ticks added. i do know everything about this class and i want to save time by not posting the bulk.

I arrived to this conclusion noticing shuriken toss cost for a combo point was 20 energy; thinking how forgotten this class is in keeping it fun so players play it. does this make sense? i stay away from words such as spamming etc. the class is only as fun as everyone agree to how fun it is, i disagree for the class being fun. you will get a more violent and volatile disposition from another when it comes to making this class fun to play.

thanks for reading.

[Fernling306]

I would love to see snd removed without nerfing rogues somehow, its annoying to keep up.

[Deleted]

I just want my secondary stats to be more meaningful as a rogue. looking at the stat values from elitistjerks makes me kind of sad.

[r3dbtk]

Vanish should heal. Im tired of dying while vanished. Or some sort of bubble-type immunity when you vanish.

The style of building up 5 CP for max damage is terrible and slow. "Ain't nobody got time for that" applies perfectly for the stupid idea of majority damage being auto hits and poisons DoT.

CP builders hit for peanuts. Not to mention, it's generally just ONE(1) ability you spam to build them, why? I'm not counting premed/ambush/cs/garr as a reliable CP builder..vanish/prep is used for survival. When I use to play Rift (I forget the souls name) there was a spec for the rogue that had a simple CD builder, but once you did that, you could then unlock another CP builder that gave you 2 instead, did more damage, and had like a 6 second CD.

If DOT oriented is the way you want it, make a talent tree specifically for it, like affliction warlocks. Nothing is interesting or intriguing among any of the specs. Each is the same, you're just swapping Sinister/RS v. Hemo/BS v. Mut/BS ((Also get rid of positional attacks, think it works well in PVP, it doesnt - your MS ontop of their MS. trying to get behind them doesnt always work))

Also, I see alot of "remove SnD". Its a good ability that makes you work for extra damage, but it shouldnt have to be worked in with KS/Evis/Rupture/Recup.. why cant it be grouped with Recup (Heal + Attack speed increase - energy granted for melee hits like combat was..or is..idk anymore since I stopped following rogues to the t.



Spec 1 - "More DoTs More Dots More DoTs!" (Poisons and DoT oriented - stronger for pve)

Spec 2 - "Neva gonna get me, I'm touching all your candy!" (Utilizes the classes main mechanic more --STEALTH--Get rid of silly shadow dance. Vanish CD reduced significantly, but keeps you stealthed for 8 seconds max, use it to your advantage & quickly)

Spec 3 - "Nut up or shut up" (Lets use stand more toe-to-toe in combat instead of fearing a death in the matter of seconds because you get stunned - Ghost Strike / Shroud Strike, direct burst like Eviserate, and Deadly throw being a legit ranged damage source)


Lastly, revert talents back. Definitely avoided cookie cutter with this less customizable "talent tree" (if you can even call it that still), great work.

---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 11:44 PM ----------

The following is taken from WoWwiki:

Let's consider a duel situation. I have opened on a priest with Garrote, and decided not to use Cheap Shot. I build up 5 combo points and use a full-duration Kidney Shot for 6 seconds, provided the priest has no means of escaping it.

Kidney Shot has a 20-second cooldown. This means that were I to use a 5-point KS on this player again 20 seconds after the first KS, it would suffer no diminishing returns.

There are only 2 reasons you see any diminishing returns on Kidney Shot:

1) The rogue opened with Cheap Shot, then used Kidney Shot within 15-20 seconds.
2) Stuns from players other than that rogue that happen to be in KS's stun category.

Therefore, a single rogue has no way of causing diminishing returns on his own stuns in the first place unless it's the first kidney shot after having opened with cheap shot.

Your argument against full 6-second stuns every 20 seconds is invalid, as this is already possible from a single rogue, provided no interaction from other friendlies.

Paralytic Poison? Guess because you said that we should forget that talent all together

[whathump]

Paralytic Poison? Guess because you said that we should forget that talent all together

I'm pretty sure Paralytic Poison is off the DR.