And you thought LFR could not get worse!

[marthsk]

Well, I did think LFR could get worse. But we might reach rock bottom in a day when LFR players have to do Durumu and Dark Animus. I half dread it, half look forward to seeing just how much they will fuck up.



Somehow you manage to both not get the underlying issues that LFR is a symptom of, and be a complete tool at the same time. Impressive! You are the epitome of what is wrong with this game, now. The "slouch in front of the TV watching whatever is on" WoW player. Go back to your incredible marriage/girlfriend that you managed to squeeze into a post completely irrelevantly (Assuming you're arguing with forever alone 13 year olds, I guess?), don't spend time on a "kid's game." And certainly, don't for a moment try to do anything hard, or something that requires coordinating and working together with other players in the game. That would be dangerously close to investing yourself a bit in the game, and since you've already established that it's a "kids game" that is obviously beneath you.

God, your type makes me puke.

If words on a screen from someone you don't even know made you react like this, then you really need to get your priorities sorted out!

Seriously.

And I hope I made you puke too!

[Drfireburns]

Well, I did think LFR could get worse. But we might reach rock bottom in a day when LFR players have to do Durumu and Dark Animus. I half dread it, half look forward to seeing just how much they will fuck up.



Somehow you manage to both not get the underlying issues that LFR is a symptom of, and be a complete tool at the same time. Impressive! You are the epitome of what is wrong with this game, now. The "slouch in front of the TV watching whatever is on" WoW player. Go back to your incredible marriage/girlfriend that you managed to squeeze into a post completely irrelevantly (Assuming you're arguing with forever alone 13 year olds, I guess?), don't spend time on a "kid's game." And certainly, don't for a moment try to do anything hard, or something that requires coordinating and working together with other players in the game. That would be dangerously close to investing yourself a bit in the game, and since you've already established that it's a "kids game" that is obviously beneath you.

God, your type makes me puke.

I think you took it a little differently than what he meant... As someone who raided hardcore through all of TBC and WotLK, I relish the thought and idea of being able to come into something and not have to spend weeks on learning one boss, just to have a vital member of our 10/25 man team NOT show up so I can sit around twiddling my thumbs with nothing to do. At least in LFR if I don't have time to be a hardcore, full time raider I can still jump in and see content at a watered down level. I DON'T want to deal with 9/24 other people pissing and moaning about gear that their class and spec can use, when I can be lucky and win something that's 20+ levels lower in ilvl, but still have better than blues. I still see bosses. I still have to tab/click/macro/keybind like everyone else in their normal or hardmode raid. So what if I don't have to deal with a certain mechanic that can one shot me. It can still wipe the raid and force us to restart.

People like you who think because your attitude towards something is different doesn't make you right or above them. The whole elitest/condescending attitude is pretty lame, and doesn't make you better. If you don't like that he, I or someone else prefers LFR then don't fucking comment on it or waste mine or anyone else's time spewing your worn out, tiresome garbage and attacking others.

YOUR type makes ME puke.

[ringpriest]

There's plenty of games you can't lose :x That's a bit absurd, and short sighted, and kind of limits exactly what videogames can be.

Also, I'm pretty sure the stacking buff's main reason for existing is to make sure people don't leave in mass when there's wipes, not so much as to make sure "everybody wins". I've even noticed in the ToT LFR's, that it's actually helping people learn from their mistakes. Which is a good thing.

MMO's have not traditionally been a game where everyone wins. I don't have a problem with that kind of game existing (and yes, they can be fun) but that's a pretty radical change to WoW, particularly to raiding.

Blizzard could make sure people don't bail en masse by throwing in a real penalty for doing so before a reasonable number of wipes. Instead they've chosen to go with a buff that virtually guarantees an eventual kill. I can't see how that doesn't cheapen the experience. Perhaps it seems like such a poor idea because it's yet another step down the "everyone wins everything" road that I dislike.

What's next? Perhaps everytime you lose an arena match, you will get a stacking 10% buff until you win a match?

[Deleted]

Since lfg has to exist there's always people who must be carried. I feel lfg would be decent if there were more requirements to join like more enchants/gems, clearing normal mode instances before joining hc etc.
Who likes seeing a guy do 15k dps in lfr?

[Deleted]

When an alt is Ilvl495 1-2 weeks after dinging 90 I think it's fair to say it is a problem. There should be a learning and progression curve, even if it is only a small one.

How is it a problem exactly? If they're happy, let them be. "Gear is progression" just doesn't wash with a lot of people, and we've already seen LFR drops nerfed to the point where people have QQ'd on the forums.

LFR pleases a lot of people. It makes them play and ultimately, pay, for the game. Sure, there are people in a kind of "purgatory" with nothing to do, but you can't please every player out there.

Polarizing content is essential. Remember, WoW reached its peak under the "EZ-Mode" WOTLK. My god, comparing those "heroics" to today's LFR makes you realize what "Easy lewtz" is all about.

[Dch48]

Compare it to a marathon. Some people run it to win, others to beat their own best time, while some are just happy to finish. Now, imagine that the race organizers start moving the finish line back towards the start, and that there is no distinction between between those who ran the whole marathon and those who just ran some of it. It cheapens and degrades the whole experience.

That is an extremely bad analogy. You're saying move the finish line for everyone in the race and Blizzard hasn't even come close to doing that. LFR in no way degrades the normal or heroic difficulty levels and just because the gear obtained looks the same it certainly doesn't mean it IS the same.

[Raiju]

That is an extremely bad analogy. You're saying move the finish line for everyone in the race and Blizzard hasn't even come close to doing that. LFR in no way degrades the normal or heroic difficulty levels and just because the gear obtained looks the same it certainly doesn't mean it IS the same.

That's entirely your opinion, for many of us the introduction of multiple difficulties did exactly that. Analogy fits well although it's extremely unorthodox in IRL terms.

[Deleted]

I love the new buff machanic at least if you wipe u have somethng to back you up and not force players to leave. Iv wiped on bosses many times and the buff does help us

[blackblade]

That's entirely your opinion, for many of us the introduction of multiple difficulties did exactly that. Analogy fits well although it's extremely unorthodox in IRL terms.

The marathon analogy fails because ultimately, wow has no end point.

Realistically, Blizzard want's players to run further and further and experience more of the course they have to offer. If anything, they're pushing your "End point" further back by adding new content, and compelling players to skip whatever they were in the middle of due to better loot (and providing mechanics to do so)

By the End of MoP, there will be players who've seen all the raid content in this expansion pack, without a distinct raid schedule, without a guild or raiding team, and likely, it's improved their experience despite people being generally toxic and abrasive in LFR.

[Dch48]

That's entirely your opinion, for many of us the introduction of multiple difficulties did exactly that. Analogy fits well although it's extremely unorthodox in IRL terms.

It is not opinion, it is fact and the analogy is like comparing apples and bowling balls. That's how far off it is. If you really think multiple difficulty levels in any way affect each other, your judgement is flawed. Some people just have to stroke their egos I guess but using a video game to do so is very sad.

The one thing that bothers me in LFR is the amount of vote kicks. I always vote no unless the person has been afk or purposely wiping the raid by pulling all the trash like happened once last week. If they're trying let them stay.

[Thatwsntmilk]

The design intent of LFR was to show raid content to bad players or casuals with little time,...

Or for bad players that are not willing to improve and that claim that they are casuals with little time as an excuse to be bad. Actually some of them even play more than top notch raiders.

[-Superman-]

In LFR, for ToT, Epic loot is iLvL 502. The SAME piece of gear in 25M heroic outside of LFR is iLvL 535. That's a 33 point difference. The stats from the LFR gear are also A LOT lower than the 25M heroic version. The Thunderforged version is iLvL 541, making the TOP gear almost 40 points higher with better stats.

Source: Throne of Thunder

http://www.wowpedia.org/Al%27set%27s...gs#Raid_Finder
http://www.wowpedia.org/Al%27set%27s...eggings#Heroic
http://www.wowpedia.org/Al%27set%27s..._Thunderforged

Not sure what "raiders" are so upset about. We're not exactly getting the same reward for the same raid since we are not running it at the same difficulty. I'm unsure what part of LFR really bugs them.

---------- Post added 2013-03-26 at 01:17 PM ----------

Or for bad players that are not willing to improve and that claim that they are casuals with little time as an excuse to be bad. Actually some of them even play more than top notch raiders.

Those players are more of the exception than they are the rule.

[SamR]

I'm not talking about differences between raiding difficulty levels.

Let me quote you again:

Compare it to a marathon. Some people run it to win, others to beat their own best time, while some are just happy to finish. Now, imagine that the race organizers start moving the finish line back towards the start, and that there is no distinction between between those who ran the whole marathon and those who just ran some of it. It cheapens and degrades the whole experience.

There is certainly a distinction in WoW between those who raid normal/heroic and those who just do LFR. On this point, you are completely wrong.

[Deleted]

The real problem is not LFR catering to 10 afk people whilst the others try to down the boss, its the afk people... I still don't know why no contribution system is implemented yet (like in world-quests from warhammer online which was by far one of the best things), but I guess we will never know.

[Osmeric]

The real problem is not LFR catering to 10 afk people whilst the others try to down the boss, its the afk people... I still don't know why no contribution system is implemented yet (like in world-quests from warhammer online which was by far one of the best things), but I guess we will never know.

I'd like to think they want to add such a system, and just haven't gotten it ready yet. The devs are rather competent game designers, all told, and the problem with LFR is rather obvious.

[ringpriest]

Let me quote you again:
There is certainly a distinction in WoW between those who raid normal/heroic and those who just do LFR. On this point, you are completely wrong.

You are once again dodging the point. You're arguing that LFR is not equal to normal/heroic. Fine, sure, whatever. I'm arguing that whatever LFR's merits or flaws in comparison to other difficulty levels may be, adding a stacking buff that makes downing bosses stupidly easy is a bad idea.

I'll also make one more attempt at explaining my (now quite overstretched) analogy:

Heroic = winning the marathon
Normal = trying to beat a particular time, your previous time, etc.
LFR = finishing the marathon
LFR w/ buff = being told you ran a marathon when you actually just ran a 10k, a 5k, or maybe even 1k race. Heck, you could have just stepped over the start line and sat down and the finish line would eventually come to you.

[-Superman-]

The real problem is not LFR catering to 10 afk people whilst the others try to down the boss, its the afk people... I still don't know why no contribution system is implemented yet (like in world-quests from warhammer online which was by far one of the best things), but I guess we will never know.

This, I can agree with. The only issue I ever found was the occasional alt-tabber who was reading WoWhead or watching a YouTube vid while on follow. I think the contribution to the fight is probably the biggest hindrance. If the system were to somehow flag/kick a player who did not get in at least some dmg/dps/or heals, that might encourage more participation. Or, base the loot gained on the level of dmg/dps/healing done during the fight. I'm sure it would take some time to tweak, but this would at least make the attempt at getting all parties involved in the fight.

[ringpriest]

I'd like to think they want to add such a system, and just haven't gotten it ready yet. The devs are rather competent game designers, all told, and the problem with LFR is rather obvious.

I'm sure it'll be out right after the next banwave.

[-Superman-]

Heroic = winning the marathon
Normal = trying to beat a particular time, your previous time, etc.
LFR = finishing the marathon
LFR w/ buff = being told you ran a marathon when you actually just ran a 10k, a 5k, or maybe even 1k race. Heck, you could have just stepped over the start line and sat down and the finish line would eventually come to you.

The problem with the last part is, in order to be told I ran the marathon, I would have started to run, fell down in 20 feet, lay there for a bit, run another 40 feet, fall down and lay there awhile, run another 80 feet, fall down and lay there for awhile. The "rest breaks" are essentially the dumbing down. But, the "adding a stacking buff that makes downing bosses stupidly easy" means we still have to fight the boss 8 or 9 times (sometimes more) before we get past it. Why should we have to be penalized just because "hardcore raiders" think we should wipe 50 times at reg difficulty like they do cause they think it is fun? LFR is easy mode raiding. 90% of the people playing this game are casuals. Complain all you like, but Blizz has said on more than one occasion how happy they are with the LFR.

[Aqua]

...Then don't run LFR...what is so hard about this?

What can't find a guild that will carry you without it? Sorry if that comes across as bitter but if you can't stomach a little pragmatism in your diet maybe you should shuffle along.