Thread: 5.3 patch notes

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  1. #361
    I really hope PvE items with more sockets than PvP ones wont come on top of PvP ones in matters of PvP, but unless they change them i think they will. Atm PvP neck and rings have around 270 PvP power and Resil each, and with resil removed, you could easily trade these for 3 gems. Not a big number , but you can trade 810PvP power for 960resil or 960PvP power in total (spell casters can get 2socket neck from lei shen so add +320, even if a healer neck i think it will be better for dmg too). Plus, PvE items would have more secondary stats than PvP because of PvP power/resil, so it would be 100~200 secondary stats too.


    Edit:
    And ofcourse, that might be the case for back and wrists too (that might be the case for any item below 320 PvP power and has 1 more socket at least from the PvP equilavent)

    Bottom line :
    Now people will be able to trade things like PvP neck,rings,backs,bracer, maybe a set item(like gloves or pants) with PvE ones, and actually get more secondary stats (or more suited to their class), better socket bonuses AND more PvP stats via the extra sockets.
    Last edited by pitakos; 2013-03-26 at 10:57 AM.

  2. #362
    This might have already been answered, if so, apologies.

    How are all the changes going to work with BG/RBG Flag Carriers? Are 'Tank' PvP Players now going to be in full hc gear because of the stamina?

  3. #363
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helltrixz View Post
    Ok. Why?

    10 char
    Same reason why PvPers should not be able to roll into a dungeon or raid with PvP gear and be competitive.

    The two aspects of the game need to be as divorced as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Same reason why PvPers should not be able to roll into a dungeon or raid with PvP gear and be competitive.

    The two aspects of the game need to be as divorced as possible.
    I'm guessing that the larger the divorce, the less people will even bother with PvP since most the game is focused on PvE. Part of the problem is that participation in PvP is so low.

    It would be nice if they allowed players to convert Honor/Conquest points to Valor. Then, at least when you capped out your PvP gear, you could still progress your PvE gear.

    PS: I'm really getting tired of all these different point currencies.

  5. #365
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    I'm guessing that the larger the divorce, the less people will even bother with PvP since most the game is focused on PvE. Part of the problem is that participation in PvP is so low.

    It would be nice if they allowed players to convert Honor/Conquest points to Valor. Then, at least when you capped out your PvP gear, you could still progress your PvE gear.

    PS: I'm really getting tired of all these different point currencies.
    It would be nice, but they really shouldn't. It's a lot easier to bot in BGs and passively farm honor than it is to bot Justice or Valor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    It would be nice, but they really shouldn't. It's a lot easier to bot in BGs and passively farm honor than it is to bot Justice or Valor.
    I see your point. However, it just brings up another problem with PvP. There really should have been a personal rating system in PvP. Then, queue'ing could be treated like sports leagues. The desired goal would be that botters and afkers would all be teamed together and fighting against each other for no honor. *shrug* But, then that depends on having enough participation again.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    I see your point. However, it just brings up another problem with PvP. There really should have been a personal rating system in PvP. Then, queue'ing could be treated like sports leagues. The desired goal would be that botters and afkers would all be teamed together and fighting against each other for no honor. *shrug* But, then that depends on having enough participation again.
    I can imagine how skilled/highly geared players could abuse that system. They would just give up and give no effort if they're at high rating in order to go to lower again and start facerolling others.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    if you think its hard to gte pvp gear your crazy. for the last fing time here how it work,ok? you hit 90 =bang 4k honor +justice point exchange= almost a full set of pvp gear the moment you hit 90.another day or 2 or running some bgs and you got a full set including weapons.how is that fuckign hard?and if you are one of the people that doe snot step foot in bgs before level 90 "lmfao" then get a crafted set made and your good to go.
    To an extent...it doesn't really matter how easy it is to get. The fact is a barrier to entry into PvP is still a barrier to entry and the fact it exists in the first place is going to deter many players from taking part in PvP at all. They won't try PvP, they'll be put ioff it by ganking, they won't have the time to farm the honor you think they will ahve at 90 tio get a set.

    In PvE, there is a clear line of progression. You quest, you do dungeons, you do raids. That doesn't exist in PvP. If you want to be serious about it, you have to go out of your way to take part and get a specialised suit of armor. There aren't enough low level BGs or arenas. What you end up with is a lot of players at end game who don't have a lot of experience in PvP, a lot of players who have been put off PvP by gankers, and a lot of players who get put off PvP because they are a drag on the teams they join in BGs.

    Sure - it might not take them that long to get a suit. The problem is that they need to do so.

    again the problem no matter how much you want to spin it is not gear,its the talents and specs.to much cc,to much burst, to much healing ect.go back to pvp and pve specs.arms=pvp fury =pve and pvp would be much better balanced.
    It's all of that.

    But while gear has an impact on PvP play, it will continue to be a big problem for PvP in this game.

    PvP needs to be fair to allow for greater integration into the gameworld, to allow for a broader base of support, to provide the numbers who take part to ensure Blizzard continues to develop for it, to allow for greater PvP balance elsewhere and in other aspects, to address the anti-social issues such as ganking which drive palyers away from PvP and the game.

    You are right PvP also has other concerns. PvP healing, PvP burst, the impact of CC - all issues. You are wrong in stating that the current state of gear is not one of these. It isn't later on in the Arena or RBG cycle when peopel are geared up for those events. In many other aspect of PvP gear, it is.

    But the issue is complex. For example - healing is too powerful. Because burst is too powerful. Can you tone down burst in pvP where it is bad, but keep it in PvE where it is good? Yes - but it's made more difficult due to various factors. Assuming it is, how much would you tone healing down by? 10%? 50%?80%? The issue here is that if you toned down healing to the degree truly necessary for PvP, then healers would have no PvP role.

    Either way, the more imbalances you can remove from the equation, the fairer and better balanced PvP will be. And gear is a big imbalance in many cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Same reason why PvPers should not be able to roll into a dungeon or raid with PvP gear and be competitive.

    The two aspects of the game need to be as divorced as possible.
    Which is the wrong approach in many ways. You want more players to enter PvP, and have fun and like that aspect. Not less.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-03-27 at 07:41 AM.

  9. #369

    elite not elite

    No more pve gear in pvp. Also what is the point of 25k conquest cap if elite tyrannical will have the same ilvl?[/QUOTE]


    I 100% agree it makes elite not feel elite I really hope blizz reconsiders even if it was only 4ilvl's above average gera it would make it feel epic.
    alos blizz said that they were trying to make pvp and pvp gear more inline ie lfr,honour conquest-normal heroic-elite. this is going in the opposite direction as heroic raiders dont receive an astheitc difference for doing heroics

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-27 at 04:39 PM ----------

    Now PVP will be more about skill and less about time invested. A player that is really skilled but can't invest a lot of time in to the game would previously be unable to compete with someone of their actual skill level, now they can.[/QUOTE]

    gear is still part of it a lfr raider shouldnt be a able to jump into heroics or receive heroic gear should he?

  10. #370
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Which is the wrong approach in many ways. You want more players to enter PvP, and have fun and like that aspect. Not less.

    EJL
    Which can be solved in the direction with which Blizzard has chosen to go: rather than try and integrate the two halves, make the gate for entry into PvP as open as possible. The two halves of the game adversely affect each other in countless ways; abilities which are useful in a PvE environment such as burst and instant cast heals have ruined the PvP environment, while PvP concerns have resulted in a myriad of nerfs and restrictions on PvErs for fear of making their classes too powerful. Frost Mages, for instance, still suffer because Blizzard has failed to delineate its PvP and PvE potency sufficiently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #371
    Deleted

    Resilience will be removed from nearly all PvP gear. do we get crit/hit etc insted?

    •Base Resilience will be set to 65% for all characters level 85 and higher
    •Resilience will be removed from nearly all PvP gear

    Since Resilience are being removed from most of the gear, do we get any other stat instead then?

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imatauren View Post
    Since Resilience are being removed from most of the gear, do we get any other stat instead then?
    Resilience has no stat weight. As it is, a piece of 476 PVE gear and 476 PVP gear have the exact same total amounts of primary and secondary stats, but the PVP gear also has Resilience. It's 'free'.

    I'm sure resil will just be removed.
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  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    Resilience has no stat weight. As it is, a piece of 476 PVE gear and 476 PVP gear have the exact same total amounts of primary and secondary stats, but the PVP gear also has Resilience. It's 'free'.

    I'm sure resil will just be removed.
    This. Resilience gems and enchants are being retained, though I don't see them lasting either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Imatauren View Post
    •Base Resilience will be set to 65% for all characters level 85 and higher
    •Resilience will be removed from nearly all PvP gear

    Since Resilience are being removed from most of the gear, do we get any other stat instead then?
    They did say +pvp resilience set bonuses will be changed to +pvp power.
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  15. #375
    Elemental Lord Korgoth's Avatar
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    These patch notes are a worthless tease, where is my buffs and nerfs at! Where is "Ice Lance now does half damage to players" Where is "Mass Dispell is no longer available to Shadow Priests" Where is "Gorefiend's Grasp has been removed from the game and replaced with X" Where is "Ursol's Vortex has been removed from the game and replaced with X" Where is "Cheapshot now has a CD"

    No good stuff yet.
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  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    To an extent...it doesn't really matter how easy it is to get. The fact is a barrier to entry into PvP is still a barrier to entry and the fact it exists in the first place is going to deter many players from taking part in PvP at all. They won't try PvP, they'll be put ioff it by ganking, they won't have the time to farm the honor you think they will ahve at 90 tio get a set.

    In PvE, there is a clear line of progression. You quest, you do dungeons, you do raids. That doesn't exist in PvP. If you want to be serious about it, you have to go out of your way to take part and get a specialised suit of armor. There aren't enough low level BGs or arenas. What you end up with is a lot of players at end game who don't have a lot of experience in PvP, a lot of players who have been put off PvP by gankers, and a lot of players who get put off PvP because they are a drag on the teams they join in BGs.

    Sure - it might not take them that long to get a suit. The problem is that they need to do so.



    It's all of that.

    But while gear has an impact on PvP play, it will continue to be a big problem for PvP in this game.

    PvP needs to be fair to allow for greater integration into the gameworld, to allow for a broader base of support, to provide the numbers who take part to ensure Blizzard continues to develop for it, to allow for greater PvP balance elsewhere and in other aspects, to address the anti-social issues such as ganking which drive palyers away from PvP and the game.

    You are right PvP also has other concerns. PvP healing, PvP burst, the impact of CC - all issues. You are wrong in stating that the current state of gear is not one of these. It isn't later on in the Arena or RBG cycle when peopel are geared up for those events. In many other aspect of PvP gear, it is.

    But the issue is complex. For example - healing is too powerful. Because burst is too powerful. Can you tone down burst in pvP where it is bad, but keep it in PvE where it is good? Yes - but it's made more difficult due to various factors. Assuming it is, how much would you tone healing down by? 10%? 50%?80%? The issue here is that if you toned down healing to the degree truly necessary for PvP, then healers would have no PvP role.

    Either way, the more imbalances you can remove from the equation, the fairer and better balanced PvP will be. And gear is a big imbalance in many cases.



    Which is the wrong approach in many ways. You want more players to enter PvP, and have fun and like that aspect. Not less.

    EJL

    "To an extent...it doesn't really matter how easy it is to get. The fact is a barrier to entry into PvP is still a barrier to entry and the fact it exists in the first place is going to deter many players from taking part in PvP at all"


    wrong-if you cant get honor gear then there's a crafted pvp set anyone can get.our you can use pve gear in pvp does not matter.bottom line like i been saying is this a fuckign joke and does not fix pvp at all.honor gear is so easy to get,keep defending blizz all you want.all you get is worse and worse game play,and thats been happing in wow for years now.

    they took out rating requirements form pvp gear,no anyone can get it by playing.but some thats still to hard,lmfao.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    These patch notes are a worthless tease, where is my buffs and nerfs at! Where is "Ice Lance now does half damage to players" Where is "Mass Dispell is no longer available to Shadow Priests" Where is "Gorefiend's Grasp has been removed from the game and replaced with X" Where is "Ursol's Vortex has been removed from the game and replaced with X" Where is "Cheapshot now has a CD"

    No good stuff yet.
    i laught so hard@ cheapshot have a CD even if u use cloak and dagger to move from 1 target to another to get the entire team in a stun u sacrifice your entire window of burst to get that , rly i dont see why would some1 ask for a CD on a ability like cheapshot

  18. #378
    Elemental Lord Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezuma View Post
    i laught so hard@ cheapshot have a CD even if u use cloak and dagger to move from 1 target to another to get the entire team in a stun u sacrifice your entire window of burst to get that , rly i dont see why would some1 ask for a CD on a ability like cheapshot
    Warbringer 3s, into shockwave 4s, OP NERF NERF NERF
    Cheap Shot 5s, into Cheapshot 2.5s, I dont see why someone would want it nerfed...

    Sure buddy.
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  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Cheap Shot 5s, into Cheapshot 2.5s, I dont see why someone would want it nerfed...
    i'm not sure if you're able to understand the difference...
    warbringer into shockwave is more or less just at the cost of a gcd and before the nerf being on a 20s cd having effectively a stun uptime of about 60%, while with cs the only way to get the scenario you mentioned is while having shadow dance up which is a major cooldown. another way to get such a high stun time as a rogue is to half kidney after cs, which is 8s with the cost of 5 cp and some energy that could have went in pure damage.

    and before you claim i'm defending my class...i don't even have a rogue above lvl 81, my main is a hunter
    Last edited by Flaim; 2013-03-27 at 05:18 PM.

  20. #380
    Elemental Lord Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaim View Post
    i'm not sure if you're able to understand the difference...
    warbringer into shockwave is more or less just at the cost of a gcd and before the nerf being on a 20s cd having effectively a stun uptime of about 60%, while with cs the only way to get the scenario you mentioned is while having shadow dance up which is a major cooldown. another way to get such a high stun time as a rogue is to half kidney after cs, which is 8s with the cost of 5 cp and some energy that could have went in pure damage.

    and before you claim i'm defending my class...i don't even have a rogue above lvl 81, my main is a hunter
    Running Thug Cleave this season I bet.

    7.5s or 8s, of stun is Bullshit, pure and simple, set up, combo points, it doesnt fucking matter, you shouldnt be losing control of your character from CC that doesnt break on damage from 1 person for that long. Ever. For whatever bullshit excuse people bring up.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
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