[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Zinnin]

True, I only really think about that after I hit it for some reason.

I have ToC macoed with it as a cast sequence, so when I'm spamming I don't waste that extra cast time.

[Hellfury]

There isnt much agreeing about what its the best 2nd trinket for demo.

What you guys think? Breath/wush or Cha-ye

[Zinnin]

There isnt much agreeing about what its the best 2nd trinket for demo.

What you guys think? Breath/wush or Cha-ye

Sims show Wush being dead last and it makes sense that would be the case because the biggest thing we could do with it is doom at 10 stacks, which isn't an option rolling Lei Shen on doom.

So it's basically between Cha-Ye and Breath, the difference between them is fairly small. The trinket list on the front page is using the full crit build which makes Cha-Ye have higher up-time, I need to run some better sims with full haste, but I'm pretty sure it can go either way and isn't a huge deal. You'll basically just want to pick up what you can get.

[Hellfury]

Cha-ye and Breath both have the same Int proc but on diferent timers, so to make them balanced Cha-ye must have a much greater proc-rate

Breath should give better DPS at pull cause the 20secs duration that match with DS but after that can be so RNG even with alot of haste.

I think Cha-ye 10sec but higher proc rate might make it better and line with Shadowflame weaves and Doom recasts with DS and/or Lei-chen

I have breath normal dont have Cha-ye havent droped yet, I like breath but I feel its just too random still

We are on the verge of killing Magera HC and Breath drops there, if I get Breath HC cant get Cha-ye HC until everyone has atlest a HC trinket cause that wouldnt be fair.

I know its hard to simulate this RPPM trinkets and imo it boils down too higher proc rate or higher duration, I feel for Demo the higher proc would be better, but not entirely sure

[Zinnin]

Cha-ye and Breath both have the same Int proc but on diferent timers, so to make them balanced Cha-ye must have a much greater proc-rate

Breath should give better DPS at pull cause the 20secs duration that match with DS but after that can be so RNG even with alot of haste.

I think Cha-ye 10sec but higher proc rate might make it better and line with Shadowflame weaves and Doom recasts with DS and/or Lei-chen

I have breath normal dont have Cha-ye havent droped yet, I like breath but I feel its just too random still

We are on the verge of killing Magera HC and Breath drops there, if I get Breath HC cant get Cha-ye HC until everyone has atlest a HC trinket cause that wouldnt be fair.

I know its hard to simulate this RPPM trinkets and imo it boils down too higher proc rate or higher duration, I feel for Demo the higher proc would be better, but not entirely sure

Doom recasts don't matter in BiS, and the trinkets are never going to line up nicely with HoG charges.

One trinket is 10s duration 1ppm, the other is 20s .5ppm, on base they have identical up-time of the same amount of Int, however one scales with crit and the other with haste.

[Hellfury]

Doom recasts don't matter in BiS, and the trinkets are never going to line up nicely with HoG charges.

One trinket is 10s duration 1ppm, the other is 20s .5ppm, on base they have identical up-time of the same amount of Int, however one scales with crit and the other with haste.

Why you say that recasts dont mater, having trinkets proc at DS and HOG its huge

[Zinnin]

Why you say that recasts dont mater, having trinkets proc at DS and HOG its huge

BiS is Lei Shen's, you don't recast doom during DS if it means losing the 100% crit, so recasts don't matter.

[Tramzh]

How are you doing your opener optimally with the Lei Shen trinket without missing the proc will it always proc right at the start? Cause currently u spam ToC until ur out of fury, and apply doom rather early. Should I delay going into demo form and wait to pop everything until it procs?(I don't got the trinket yet but hopefully I'll get it soon)

[Deleted]

How are you doing your opener optimally with the Lei Shen trinket without missing the proc will it always proc right at the start? Cause currently u spam ToC until ur out of fury, and apply doom rather early. Should I delay going into demo form and wait to pop everything until it procs?(I don't got the trinket yet but hopefully I'll get it soon)

You never go to meta if you cant stay there for 7 seconds. So you delay it till it procs or you have something like +600 fury and you apply doom even without 100% and spam ToC or something.

[Deleted]

One trinket is 10s duration 1ppm, the other is 20s .5ppm, on base they have identical up-time of the same amount of Int, however one scales with crit and the other with haste.

They both scale with haste but Cha-Ye's scales with crit aswell because this trinket RPPM is varies with your crit, you only get 1 RPPM with arround 23.7% crit, but the proc chance (which includes the trinket RPPM in the formula) is still calculated based on your haste.

[Tramzh]

You never go to meta if you cant stay there for 7 seconds. So you delay it till it procs or you have something like +600 fury and you apply doom even without 100% and spam ToC or something.

Yeah so I wait with All CDs (Imp Swarm, DS, etc) until after the first proc then and then just blow a huge Doom with DS + Doom? Until then I just sit and shadow bolt? lol

[Jetjaguar]

I have the 4 piece with Lei Shen and from my experience, I can get off DS/Imps/Service(usually Lei Shen Procs around here)/Corruption/Doom and since the bonuses are really nice I can sit in meta and spam ToC for over 20 seconds quite easily. Using HoG seems to be out of the question unless it takes ~7 seconds longer for Lei Shen to proc which is actually more ideal.

At rare times, you can get really unlucky and not get a proc for over a minute... but that's only happened to me 3 or 4 times every 50-60 pulls

[Brusalk]

I have the 4 piece with Lei Shen and from my experience, I can get off DS/Imps/Service(usually Lei Shen Procs around here)/Corruption/Doom and since the bonuses are really nice I can sit in meta and spam ToC for over 20 seconds quite easily. Using HoG seems to be out of the question unless it takes ~7 seconds longer for Lei Shen to proc which is actually more ideal.

At rare times, you can get really unlucky and not get a proc for over a minute... but that's only happened to me 3 or 4 times every 50-60 pulls

I have normal Lei-shen and it's EXTREMELY RARE for me to get a proc in the first minute of the fight.

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 07:57 AM ----------

On a different note

About Everlasting Affliction, I've noticed a bug and I want to see if others can confirm it:

Corruption refreshed with ToC seems to have a max duration of around 27 seconds with the EA glyph. If I cast 2 corruptions manually back to back I can easily get 40ish seconds on Corruption with EA glyph.


ToC refreshing seems to have a bug where corruption is only benefitting from either EA or Pandemic, but not both at the same time.

[Zinnin]

I have normal Lei-shen and it's EXTREMELY RARE for me to get a proc in the first minute of the fight.

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 07:57 AM ----------

On a different note

About Everlasting Affliction, I've noticed a bug and I want to see if others can confirm it:

Corruption refreshed with ToC seems to have a max duration of around 27 seconds with the EA glyph. If I cast 2 corruptions manually back to back I can easily get 40ish seconds on Corruption with EA glyph.


ToC refreshing seems to have a bug where corruption is only benefitting from either EA or Pandemic, but not both at the same time.

The corruption thing has been that way since 5.0.

About lei shen's, are you doing chain pulls? As long as there has been enough time (3-4 minutes) since the last pull my trinket goes off in the first 2-3 globals almost every pull, its actually kind of annoying how fast it goes off.

[MrHappy]

simcraft issues....

So i wanted to see what kind of dps gains i will have from having 2pc t15. Atm i still have 2pc t14 and I was wondering if replaced 522 chest for LFR 502 chest to gain 2pc. Simcraft showed me that i would LOSE 3k dps...for shit and giggles i even did 522 normal chest t15 and STILL had 1k dps loss

wtf?

side note i used CharDev to change gear then import that profile

[Kael]

The corruption thing has been that way since 5.0.

About lei shen's, are you doing chain pulls? As long as there has been enough time (3-4 minutes) since the last pull my trinket goes off in the first 2-3 globals almost every pull, its actually kind of annoying how fast it goes off.

Which reminds me, I've been trying to figure out how best to open the fight when you're expecting a UVLS proc almost immediately. Corr into Meta with DSK (or without DSK, to hold onto it for later with more fury)? HoGx2 into meta to apply the doom and stick in Meta with DSK making use of opening procs to maximize damage? corr-HoGx2-meta-DSK and mash the Doom button making sure it goes off in time in case it procs off the first GCD?

Personally this is without either T15 set bonus, but figuring out how to deal with it in a myriad of situations can't hurt.

Does SimC model shadowflame in Meta, or are we in the dark for using it "helpfully" for these types of questions?

[Hellfury]

Might be freaking coincidence but I have breath and crit trinket procing 90% at start by casting my pet, putting portal, casting DI and eating asap then staying there looking pretty until rest of ppl is ready and pull starts

Doing "stuff" might fuck the ppm system, but it can just be a coincidence, I had probs getting trinkets procing before cause I chain casted DI till pull, placed portal late etc

[Brusalk]

The corruption thing has been that way since 5.0.

About lei shen's, are you doing chain pulls? As long as there has been enough time (3-4 minutes) since the last pull my trinket goes off in the first 2-3 globals almost every pull, its actually kind of annoying how fast it goes off.

That corruption thing is annoying!

We're chain pulling (if you can call running back slowly and taking 3 minutes to eat and buff), but even on attempts where we take 5-10 minutes between pulls it doesn't.

[Deleted]

So, after seeing several discussions about GoSac being the better choice for the council, i decided to try it out at our non-progress ToT normal run. The results were satisfactory, to say the least.
http://imgur.com/XhDNtZr

[Moruff]

Which reminds me, I've been trying to figure out how best to open the fight when you're expecting a UVLS proc almost immediately. Corr into Meta with DSK (or without DSK, to hold onto it for later with more fury)? HoGx2 into meta to apply the doom and stick in Meta with DSK making use of opening procs to maximize damage? corr-HoGx2-meta-DSK and mash the Doom button making sure it goes off in time in case it procs off the first GCD?

Personally this is without either T15 set bonus, but figuring out how to deal with it in a myriad of situations can't hurt.

Does SimC model shadowflame in Meta, or are we in the dark for using it "helpfully" for these types of questions?

I have found this to be the best opener with unerring:

Prepot/precast SB/SF
HoG
Corr
If trinket procs early do HoG > DS/Meta > Doom x2 > Grimoire > Imps > ToC spam
Otherwise you use Imps/Grimoire before 2nd HoG

The idea is to get double Doom and empowered 2 stack of HoG during Perfect Aim.
Yes you will be casting Imps and Grimoire (and possibly even DG) during Meta with DS, but the previous situation is certainly better.
If you have 4pc the fury generated by your imps should be enough to keep you in Meta for the whole duration of that first DS.