5.3 PTR: Heroic Scenarios are HARD

[Shinrael]

What the heck. When was this video made? Yesterday, every 30 minutes I logged on the PTR to check if I can finally play and each time the realms were gray. And here I see people who have actually been playing up until now. I don't get it.

[Viradiance]

From the sound of the objectives, they are thing that you HAVE to do to beat the scenario anyway. You just have to do them quickly or skillfully. They aren't actual extra activities.

I base this off the screen shot, where Borokhula is the final boss you need to beat to finish the scenario.

I hope these get applied to LFR. Imagine if you got extra valor/gold for stuff like [ ] Don't fall into the hole on Elegon. [ ] Don't get naked on Spirit Kings. [ ] Don't trigger a crush on Garalon.

People might actually try a bit harder. Rewards might have to be individual rather than group, due to lack of coordination.

This might be the proverbial carrot on a stick to lead people away from shittiness.

[TheDDGuides]

What the heck. When was this video made? Yesterday, every 30 minutes I logged on the PTR to check if I can finally play and each time the realms were gray. And here I see people who have actually been playing up until now. I don't get it.

Shutdowns are frequent, but I've personally never had trouble logging in for an hour or so.

[Gimlix]

I'm impressed.

[TheDDGuides]

This might be the proverbial carrot on a stick to lead people away from shittiness.

Actually, if people are bad, usually they'll be bad even if they got a cake and $1,000,000 attached to that stick.

[HardCoder]

Why, oh Why are we whining about this?

I don't know.

But if they're too hard (as in ZG 5-mans), and they are available for random queuing, then they will be more about drama and much less about fun.

Also, anything available to random groups shouldn't involve a timer. It just sucks too much to be "the other guy" when you don't know a whole bunch about the game, zone in, and there are two guildies in the mood for timed mount run.

I am all for the evolution of scenarios because I think that 5-mans as they've been known are pretty much a dead end. But the things that make random groups suck, in particular the drama generated when less skilled players are lumped together with more skilled players who want to achieve a difficult goal, I sure hope the designers have learned to try to avoid that.

---------- Post added 2013-03-31 at 11:57 PM ----------

Actually, if people are bad, usually they'll be bad even if they got a cake and $1,000,000 attached to that stick.

If by "bad" you mean "don't behave in the manner you expect."

That's what people mean by "bad" in WoW anyway.

[Deleted]

[/COLOR]
If by "bad" you mean "don't behave in the manner you expect."

That's what people mean by "bad" in WoW anyway.

Its not always about someones high expectations you know. There are actual bads in this game. And alot too. No gems/chants/reforges, no idea of hit/exp caps, no idea of their class rotations etc etc

Anyway, i rather hope these are challenging. Current scenarios and dungeons are ok in a sense that you can just roflstomp thru them and get your fast valors.
But if these actually force you to focus and play to your best i think im going to like them.

[Millie]

Why, oh Why are we whining about this?

It's not the difficulty for me, it's the way it's created.

Challenge modes did the same. I wanted hard small group content, many people use TBC heroics as an example. The issue is that Blizzard does not make content hard in that way. They make mildly difficult mechanics and enemies, but then add a strict timer so the difficulty comes not from the actual fights, but more from someone screwing it all up while trying to rush.

I was hoping, due to the lack of a leaderboard system, that Heroic Scenarios would be more like old 5 man difficulty. We would stop, and have to execute a hard fight with planning and strategy. Instead it will go down the Challenge Mode route where the planning really doesn't take much preparation or learning, it's more about making sure people don't trip over their own feet while they're running to the finish.

[Myzou]

so basically average players who have stayed current with gear progression in the 500 plus ilvl will not find them difficult at all?

And also have zero reason to run them for the crappy rewards.

[Tomana]

I'm not sure dungeons were the factor that lost them millions of subs, lol.

Of course they did. Cata 5-mans were overtuned for PuGs and when non-raiders can't even do 5-mans, they tend to quit.

[TheDDGuides]

Of course they did. Cata 5-mans were overtuned for PuGs and when non-raiders can't even do 5-mans, they tend to quit.

It was a factor, sure, but it wasn't the definitive "here is the reason Cata failed". I remember quitting in Cata simply from burnout right when they announced the Zandalari patch and I could see the many months of content drought bearing down on us. It was more the fact they sunk all their eggs into the revamp basket and left little room for end-game.
I personally recall enjoying the Cata dungeon difficulty quite a bit.

[Tomana]

It was a factor, sure, but it wasn't the definitive "here is the reason Cata failed". I remember quitting in Cata simply from burnout right when they announced the Zandalari patch and I could see the many months of content drought bearing down on us. It was more the fact they sunk all their eggs into the revamp basket and left little room for end-game.

Yes indeed, the revamp of the old world taking a lot of resources was the chief reason, but the initial impact of it in 4.0 was handled very badly because of the overtuned 5-mans.

I personally recall enjoying the Cata dungeon difficulty quite a bit.

If you were running them with a guild, sure. Most people running them in LFD didn't.

[Ferocity]

The only concerns I have about these scenarios is that again tanks and healers won't be really able to participate in them. Is the only way to make something "hard" is to make some kind of "timer"? Imo, such timers don't even have place in RPGs. Timers, excessive dancing, etc. - it all belongs to other genres, not RPG. RPG's challenge is about tactics, setup, gear, etc.

They make mildly difficult mechanics and enemies, but then add a strict timer so the difficulty comes not from the actual fights, but more from someone screwing it all up while trying to rush.

You are so right, now game is for high-adrenaline youngsters. Tight enrage timers everywhere, rush-rush-rush with some high-reaction convoluted dancing. Aspects of exploration and planning are completely gone.

[7seti]

The only concerns I have about these scenarios is that again tanks and healers won't be really able to participate in them. Is the only way to make something "hard" is to make some kind of "timer"? Imo, such timers don't even have place in RPGs. Timers, excessive dancing, etc. - it all belongs to other genres, not RPG. RPG's challenge is about tactics, setup, gear, etc.

This is what I found disappointing about challenge modes. I don't have a problem with the existence of timed runs, but they shouldn't be the only type of challenge available.

[TheDDGuides]

Yes indeed, the revamp of the old world taking a lot of resources was the chief reason, but the initial impact of it in 4.0 was handled very badly because of the overtuned 5-mans.


If you were running them with a guild, sure. Most people running them in LFD didn't.

I did all LFD groups, never felt frustrated, though that might be because I was a tank the whole time and I'd built a series of clickable macros that posted strats to anyone who didn't know what they were doing.

[Wondercrab]

I hope these get applied to LFR. Imagine if you got extra valor/gold for stuff like [ ] Don't fall into the hole on Elegon. [ ] Don't get naked on Spirit Kings. [ ] Don't trigger a crush on Garalon.

People might actually try a bit harder. Rewards might have to be individual rather than group, due to lack of coordination.

That'd be really awesome. My absolute favourite mechanic in Pandaria raiding has been the dance on Will of the Emperor with the DPS boost reward at the end. I'm surprised they haven't added more little optional perks for executing mechanics correctly like that.

[TheDDGuides]

That'd be really awesome. My absolute favourite mechanic in Pandaria raiding has been the dance on Will of the Emperor with the DPS boost reward at the end. I'm surprised they haven't added more little optional perks for executing mechanics correctly like that.

They kinda do with Achievements, but I wholeheartedly agree that we should be getting little success buffs like, avoiding Attenuation grants you bonus health/damage/healing.

[HardCoder]

That'd be really awesome. My absolute favourite mechanic in Pandaria raiding has been the dance on Will of the Emperor with the DPS boost reward at the end. I'm surprised they haven't added more little optional perks for executing mechanics correctly like that.

The problem is, people will find a way to exploit bonuses like that, and also if other folks are standing in their way, they will rant and create drama.

[Coldhearth]

Heroic scenarios... really, Blizzard? Most boring aspect of wow put on the front burner. You literally have to bribe your playerbase into running them (50 valor for the first scenario per day) while your devs openly admit they don't really know "where scenarios quite fit into the game yet".

Horrible, horrible, horrible idea.

Why not just make new 5 mans that award extra valor instead?

[Tomana]

I did all LFD groups, never felt frustrated, though that might be because I was a tank the whole time and I'd built a series of clickable macros that posted strats to anyone who didn't know what they were doing.

This makes perfect sense. The thing is, not all LFD tanks are/were like that