Pokemafia: Gotta Kill them all

[Rigimi44]

Wouldn't that be sort of the same thing though? I thought the Rapid Wolf thing was whoever died was labeled the opposite of their true role, or something like that.

---------- Post added 2013-04-02 at 10:21 PM ----------

Oh and foxxi, can we have a vote count please?

[Arlee]

I do suspect that both of us win if the other dies regardless of the outcome of the rest of the game, which means that it doesn't matter to Arlee if she dies as long as she doesn't die first, while since I am town I can win with the town and so I'm okay with the town dying first.

But of course, if you follow this logic you come to the conclusion that I am Mew and she Mewtwo, I suppose it's up to you to decide what to believe.

In the end, Arlee is not comfortable dying first and I am. Maybe she doesn't have a team, maybe she is a lone SK and NEEDS to live tonight in order to win. I am telling you that I AM okay with dying first, because I am the Mew, because I am the town, but for that reason you should lynch her first. Not because it's any smarter for the town, necessarily, but because I don't want a scum to win, I prefer a perfect town win to a town + scum win.

Umm Hello you have been fighting tooth and nail the whole time, even before I showed up, while I have been way more laid back. Fail at trying to pretend you do not care. At least other people also pointed it out so this lie can't stand.

[Lysah]

Umm Hello you have been fighting tooth and nail the whole time, even before I showed up, while I have been way more laid back. Fail at trying to pretend you do not care. At least other people also pointed it out so this lie can't stand.

Appeal to emotion. I have given perfectly sound reasons why lynching me first is a mistake - it's because I'm Mew and I don't want a scum to win.

Let's not forget that if you die, instead of me, I am GUARANTEED to win the game, even if the town loses. If they lynch me first I have to hope they pull off the win or I lose.

Heck, maybe you are a solo SK and there is a team rocket. If that is true, it's possible they lynch me, because you killed Mew in the duel you meet your win condition as Mewtwo, you die, team rocket wins, and both I and the town lose while every scum wins. I don't want that. The town has the option of winning, at least a little bit, right now, by picking me. I can only convince them so far of this fact, though.

[Arlee]

Appeal to emotion.

Which exactly what "QQ this is popularity contest no one would ever vote for me" is. How about you try something new for once Lysah?

[Lysah]

Which exactly what "QQ this is popularity contest no one would ever vote for me" is. How about you try something new for once Lysah?

Bring up an actually reasonable counter argument to anything I have said instead of just trying to get me angry and I'll have a reason to respond to you further.

[Blueobelisk]

Alright, part of this popularity contest is a swimsuit and talent competition. Go prepare you two.

[Viscoe]

But Lysah, if you're both going to die in the end anyway... how does your not dying now, then dying tomorrow after not being able to do a town-friendly night action help us?

Because after your claim, if Arlee faints tonight and comes up Mewtwo, you're screwed. And if she comes up Mew, you're screwed anyway.

[Lysah]

But Lysah, if you're both going to die in the end anyway... how does your not dying now, then dying tomorrow after not being able to do a town-friendly night action help us?

Because after your claim, if Arlee faints tonight and comes up Mewtwo, you're screwed. And if she comes up Mew, you're screwed anyway.

Because if she dies I win the game regardless of death. Since I am town, this is a minor town victory, in my opinion, even if the town ends up losing to the scum. If I die first, Arlee probably wins since her role seems to be a mirror of mine, regardless of dying, and it's possible the town completely loses the game. Again, this reasoning is based entirely on the presupposition that I am who I say I am, so you don't have to trust what I say, but think about the fact that I volunteered to die first from the start and Arlee only barely mentioned it because I had already. If you think I planned this argument from the very start 80 replies ago and was willing to risk the insta-lynch, well, I'm flattered.

[Viscoe]

How is it a town victory? It's a Lysah victory. And again, I restate that you're both going to die by tomorrow. If Mewtwo doesn't have the one-off lynch immunity that I suspected he has, then how will the town lose if we kill you first?

[Lysah]

How is it a town victory? It's a Lysah victory.

And Lysah is town. Will you not be proud of the fact that you correctly picked Mew to live, or will you just throw that away in the end?

I'm not arguing for what is smartest for the town, I think I've already convinced enough people that both of us dying is the most logical choice. I'm arguing for what is most OPTIMAL for the town, at this point. Would you rather Mew win or Mewtwo win the game, given that you can't predict or ensure a town win?

[Arlee]

Anywho, I need to head to bed. Any last questions before I go? Otherwise it'll have to wait until roughly 9am EDT tomorrow.

[Viscoe]

And to reply to your edit:

You said in your first post that you wanted to die second, because you wanted to assure a victory (doesn't sound particularly pro town or anti town, just pro Lysah.) Afterwards you claimed your Mewtwo-upon-death-of-Mew thing and said you'd both have to die in the end anyway and you'd be willing to take the hit because you can still win with town.

You then proceeded to fight very very hard to live. Which led me to believe the Mewtwo one-off lynch immunity allowing you to waste one of our days on lynching you and then not having it go through, which would be a powerful thing for the scum, and you're just lying about being Mew because Mewtwo probably does not win with the town and just wants to kill Mew, and you care about winning, not the town winning.

Edit: i've already stated I'm rooting for Mew, but I think mew is Arlee.

[Lysah]

That's fine, and much better reasoning than you have used thus far. I respect it and can't really say much. Of course I want to be the one who lives, only a fool would actually willingly go to her death when she knows Mewtwo will win if she does. (okay, I don't know for sure, but why would I win for killing Mewtwo and Mewtwo not win for killing me? That would be pretty unfair). I'm willing to do what is necessary for the town, I always have been, right now I don't want Mewtwo to win. If there was a way to kill us both at the same time I would go with that. I have no better way to convince you of this fact than the fact that I was willing to off myself from the start. There is no other evidence available. Realizing that I could have set this up from the start, even this isn't good evidence. Flip a coin if you have to.

Mew is not Arlee and never will be.

[Viscoe]

SO what this boils down to, this talk between you and me, is what it's been this whole time: I'm very convinced you are not Mew, and you're saying you are.

Either way, I suspect you will win because most of the votes so far have been for you. (And forgive me if I'm miscounting because I watched 3 hellions all day today and their awful, untrained dog that pooped AND puked in the house after he ate the poop. I love dogs, but holy crap untrained dogs are bad.)

And then tomorrow, we will lynch the not-dead guy because either you are Mewtwo and you're lying and Arlee will come out dead and be revealed as Mew, or you are Mew and you're telling the truth but we won't be sure Mewtwo actually died and will have to kill you to make sure. Either way, the "victory" for me in this scenario (or the mini victory if you will) will be that I tried my best to use deductive reasoning to figure out who's who. If I'm wrong, then... I won't try to change professions into being a police officer or detective. If I'm right, then, well, awesome. :P

[Arlee]

Ok looks like no more questions for me tonight. I am off to slumber

If you guys haven't killed me when I get to work tomorrow morning I will post more. If I am dead, Lynch Lysah and then gogo 4 the win

[Lysah]

In my opinion, our talk is more along the lines of:
You believing Arlee is Mew for extremely shaky and flimsy reasons, such as believing that Mew's rarity would be more of a factor in its role than its supreme power to use all moves and morph into all pokemon making it a jack of all trades. And then, of course, believing that RP has anything to do with the game design to begin with, an assumption that has been proven wrong in pretty much every game at some point.
And me trying to convince you that your beliefs are based on extremely shaky and flimsy reasons.

[Arlee]

Actually brief recap before I go: Lysah claims Jack, I claim modified Doctor. She claims we both will show as mewtwo, I claim not to have that restriction. If you believe that then we both need to die. If we both need to die then the only question you guys need to decide is if you want me to me meet my win condition (beating Mewtwo) or Lysah to meet her's. That's really it as the other one is apparently getting lynched during the day phase no matter what. If you want to leave one of us alive well then the argument gets more complex.

I think that's really all of it. Though people should really read through all the posts of this phase VERY carefully

[Krayzy]

Instead of voting to save someone can I vote to lynch the people that are dragging this on?

Who cares who is what role? Lynch them both and we get rid of one scum. Do I give a damn if Lysah is actually scum and voting to save her is going to give her some minor victory? Hell no. Why would I?

I am voting to save Lysah tonight because it will be much easier to lynch her tomorrow than it will be to lynch Arlee and if we go through with only killing one of them then we're all a bunch of idiots.

[Viscoe]

In my opinion, our talk is more along the lines of:
You believing Arlee is Mew for extremely shaky and flimsy reasons, such as believing that Mew's rarity would be more of a factor in its role than its supreme power to use all moves and morph into all pokemon making it a jack of all trades. And then, of course, believing that RP has anything to do with the game design to begin with, an assumption that has been proven wrong in pretty much every game at some point.
And me trying to convince you that your beliefs are based on extremely shaky and flimsy reasons.

I haven't played Mafia before, so I'm just going with my gut, sorry. :/ I'm just assuming you're lying because of how hard you tried to fight to stay alive. The RP thing was my initial reasoning, but that evolved (npi) as our conversation went on and it became clear you were very much more concerned with winning than other stuff.

[Lysah]

I'm sure most, if not all, of the other town players want to win, too. Does that make them all Mewtwo as well?