Could this game be a reasonabe "E-sport"?

[Deleted]

People talk about "e-sports" like it's some kind of huge deal, but all it means is: do enough people like it that it gets streamed a lot?

We'll have to wait and see.

Its like that with EVERY sport. E-sport or real one.
Does it get watched a lot? Yes? Then sponsors are willing to put some money on the table in exchange for some advertising

[yurano]

Most e-sports have quite esoteric play. Unless Hearthstone is exceptionally difficult like high end LoL, SC2, WoW or CS, its probably not going to become an E-Sport. Basing my judgment off of the 300 card library, Hearthstone is probably not going to become an e-sport.

[xskarma]

Most e-sports have quite esoteric play. Unless Hearthstone is exceptionally difficult like high end LoL, SC2, WoW or CS, its probably not going to become an E-Sport. Basing my judgment off of the 300 card library, Hearthstone is probably not going to become an e-sport.

Well the 300 is only a start of course, and LoL, SC2, WoW didn't start off by being e-sports either, they just grew into it cause people enjoyed watching it. There's every chance that if people enjoy watching it and the game expands and picks up a dedicated fanbase that it will eventually turn into an e-sport in some form. I don't think it will have much chance at doing it coming out of the gate, but in time, perhaps.

[yurano]

Well the 300 is only a start of course, and LoL, SC2, WoW didn't start off by being e-sports either, they just grew into it cause people enjoyed watching it. There's every chance that if people enjoy watching it and the game expands and picks up a dedicated fanbase that it will eventually turn into an e-sport in some form. I don't think it will have much chance at doing it coming out of the gate, but in time, perhaps.

While those games didn't immediately start out as e-sports, all three (SC1 included) started out as quite difficult games to play.

The way I see it, unless Hearthstone somehow gets 10x the number of cards with complexity on the level of Magic The Gathering, it doesn't meet the esoteric requirement.

From what I see, Hearthstone is more of a casual player TCG rather than an esoteric high difficulty game like chess.

[Herrenos]

Televised poker draws enough viewers that multiple networks run it frequently. If this game is even a moderate success it will be streamable.

[Izanami-Okami]

Well, like Poker, if enough people understand the rules then it has potential to become an e-sport, or at least streamed a moderate amount. I don't think it will become an e-sport right away though. Like that blue post said earlier, it is more of a wait and see kind of thing with how the community responds to it.

[Samius]

I think Blizzard could really leverage Blizzcon as a means of getting this game in to the e-sports scene.
I think it is definitely doable, with the right amount of effort on Blizz's part.

WoW Arenas are in contrast VERY hard for new players to watch and follow. They are so fast paced, you barely know what you are seeing.
Yet WoW Arenas still have a decent level of e-sports success.

Hearthstone gameplay is slow enough that new players can figure out what is going on, if not the turn by turn commentary could easily explain each move in detail.
The big concern is that the game may not have enough visual variety to keep the attention of a large audience.

Only time will tell, but I would certainly LOVE this to go e-sport.
I wouldn't expect the e-sports route until the game has been out for a while though.

[Kanadei]

From what I see, Hearthstone is more of a casual player TCG rather than an esoteric high difficulty game like chess.

I find your example of chess pretty interesting since you are saying that Hearthstone will be too "simple" to be an e-sport.

Chess is a very simple game. It has 6 different types of pieces and clearly set out rules for victory.

But its also deep, largely due to the combinations and moves you can pull off using these simple pieces - and the overarching strategy of your game.

So, taking what we have learned about chess and looking at Hearthstone, sure it might only have 300 cards - but until you see the combinations or strategies those cards can make, and how much depth the game really has, you can't really dismiss it because it isn't "high difficulty".

[Diabeetus]

I don't see this becoming competitive on a large scale. Blizzard themselves said this was meant to be "high in quality, small in scale", though I suppose they did mean that from a development point-of-view.

[stomination]

300 cards is just the start at this time. They can and probably will continue to add more cards and stuff as time goes by.

[lopk]

You're crazy. The gameplay video on their FB page was really engaging, and I don't think the players really knew what they were doing. Seeing both sides would have ramped up the excitement even more.

EDIT: To clarify, I don't think it will ever be a legit esport. However, it'll be fun to watch streams or shoutcasts, and some small-scale tournaments might show up. Maybe we'll see a beta tournament at Blizzcon this year.

HE LAID THE CARD HE LAID THE CARD!!!

I just don't see shoutcasts, nor any type of steamed event to be very successful for this game. The game is overall rather slow paced, and I don't see that attracting viewers. A LOL,40 minute game 5v5 team fight can be over in mere seconds and the casters go ballistic - that's the excitement that brings in viewers. I wish the best for this game, but I don't see it as anything more than a casual card game.

[blackblade]

I find your example of chess pretty interesting since you are saying that Hearthstone will be too "simple" to be an e-sport.

Chess is a very simple game. It has 6 different types of pieces and clearly set out rules for victory.

But its also deep, largely due to the combinations and moves you can pull off using these simple pieces - and the overarching strategy of your game.

So, taking what we have learned about chess and looking at Hearthstone, sure it might only have 300 cards - but until you see the combinations or strategies those cards can make, and how much depth the game really has, you can't really dismiss it because it isn't "high difficulty".

The key thing that sets apart esports is the level of chance.

In a game like starcraft, there's very little "Luck" which means the victor is defined by his strategy in relation to his opponent's strategy, and ability to detect and adapt to a change in his opponents strategy. Units hit for XDamage-YArmor. Starting position on the map is standardized, Units are standardized. The thrill of watching it is watching two very skilled players manipulate eachother into a victory.

The only (that i've seen so far) RNG part of HS is the shuffled deck. You don't see televised MTG a whole lot, nor any other CCG/TCG, So i'm going to go with "Probably Not".

The poker argument is also kind of moot, because everyone starts on the same playing field. There's no inherent advantages.
where Deck 1 is overpowered compared to everything else, unless someone's playing deck 2 which specifically counters deck 1. (which is generally how tourney-level-MTG goes.)

If they nerf deck 1, which is something MTG never really got to do often, deck 3 will come out followed by deck 4, and the process will likely repeat.

I would imagine, that watching a casual level game wouldn't be bad. But eventually, people will optimize, figure out a winning combo, and then you'll start seeing a lot of people running the same or similar decks.

[Kanadei]

I would imagine, that watching a casual level game wouldn't be bad. But eventually, people will optimize, figure out a winning combo, and then you'll start seeing a lot of people running the same or similar decks.

Oh yeah definitely. And it also comes back to how cinematic the game really is - which could make it more interesting for the viewer compared to a high scale game of Yugioh or MTG.

But yeah you have some solid points as to why its unlikely this will be a streamed e-sport (although I wouldn't say its impossible for Hearthstone to get there), my original comment was just attempting to disprove the idea that it couldn't be interesting because it wasn't "complex enough" which was a pretty flawed argument.

[Nilinor]

At the start it wont be an e-sport, not until it has above 1000 cards.

300 cards seems like a lot, but really there will probably be 1-2 decks that are viable with that little of cards. There will be tons of decks of course, but there is going to be the 1-2 that completely destroy everything. On top of that, it will be easier to make as well so nearly everyone will run said decks, because you can just copy the build from the internet easily.

Around the 1000 mark, you start getting into the 8-10 deck range of viability with about 12-15 or so "average" decks, most of which are designed to hard counter the top decks. That is the point you want to start developing tournaments and competitions.

[Kanadei]

At the start it wont be an e-sport, not until it has above 1000 cards.

300 cards seems like a lot, but really there will probably be 1-2 decks that are viable with that little of cards. There will be tons of decks of course, but there is going to be the 1-2 that completely destroy everything. On top of that, it will be easier to make as well so nearly everyone will run said decks, because you can just copy the build from the internet easily.

Around the 1000 mark, you start getting into the 8-10 deck range of viability with about 12-15 or so "average" decks, most of which are designed to hard counter the top decks. That is the point you want to start developing tournaments and competitions.

I get what you are trying to say, and realistically you probably aren't too far from the truth, but you make a lot of assumptions.

With such a large shared monster pool and the way heroes factor into it, I don't think we can assume there will only be a couple "meta decks" off the get go and that we will need that many new cards before its balanced at the top end.

I agree it will take awhile before any esports interest will be around in the community; I just don't think we can predict how Hearthstone will operate based on the history of other card games. This is an online-only CCG made by a company who is long-used to balance testing and fixing (not that they are perfect at it yet) so I think we will have to wait and see how it progresses - the depth or viability of certain decks might surprise you.

[IxilaFA]

I don't foresee it being an E-Sport since games like M:TG and Yu-Gi-Oh! have had bigger fan followings in the past and don't really get spotlighted except in their own personal Regionals and Nations championships.

On that note, I think Blizzard could do some good with holding tournaments and whatnot, maybe even offering a big cash pool for top spots in a World Championship type series, provided the game is a big enough success.

[Mormolyce]

Its like that with EVERY sport. E-sport or real one.
Does it get watched a lot? Yes? Then sponsors are willing to put some money on the table in exchange for some advertising

This is true. People don't often complain about balance and game design in real sports though, ironically!

God damn it, 5 irons are OP! This game sucks!

[Deleted]

This is true. People don't often complain about balance and game design in real sports though, ironically!

God damn it, 5 irons are OP! This game sucks!

But they complain about referee choices. People allways complain about something.

[Makatafinger]

Am I the only one who thinks it is actually fun to watch a game?

I had lots of fun watching the mage vs shaman and lock vs druid games. I often found myself yelling at the screen "use that card you noob". But I love TCG, I have thousands of magic and LOTR cards all around my room.

[Slaughty8]

After watching twou gameplasy again and again, I am fairly sure that this game could be a e-sport, it is fun to watch it. The only problem could be too long decision-time SC2 dimishes it by just looking over the map and commenting "it's wise to take this expansion" or "oh look, he builds a hatchery now, lets see where is this drone going" etc.