Guild application forms

[Netherspark]

I've been searching for a new guild recently and today I came accross several seperate guilds with the same really odd questions in their application forms.

They're asking:
1) To list ALL macros I use... in full! (I have about 30 macros on my warlock, are they insane?)
2) To submit an annotated screenshot of my "raiding interface" with detailed descriptions (wtf?)
3) To detail my DPS rotation in multiple situations

I don't get why they're asking for this stuff, it's completely meaningless and offers no real information. I have half a mind to write profanity in those sections instead.

I haven't really had to apply to a guild before. In the 6 years i've been raiding I've always just joined guilds without needing any of this. Is this normal for application forms? It just sounds to me like these people are heavily deluded. Every guild I've seen using these kinds of questions have particulary poor progress and appear somewhat casual (or at least not at all "hardcore").

I just don't get it, the only information you really need is:
1) Do you have knowledge/experience?
2) Do you have gear?
3) Can you be online at this time?

Anything more is just meaningless information, it's just fluff and serves no purpose. This kind of thing seriously puts me off even applying to guilds, the attitude just rubs me the wrong way.


Do you think these guilds actually care about this stuff, or are just using a standard template intended for "top end" guilds and won't really bother reading those sections?

[icausewipes]

It depends on the guild, the server, and your class. If you play on a high pop server then its a way to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps....sorry FMJ moment but it applies. If you are a healer or tank then ppl might give you a pass. Some may agree with the body cavity search but it just pushes ppl toward LFR and the guilds scrambling to find a replacement.

[Henako]

You can learn quite a bit about a player just by looking at his UI. I'd pick the fellow with a nice, streamlined UI over the guy with a train wreck of useless information scattered all over the fucking place any day.

[Eis]

Listing macros sounds terrible and obnoxious. Seriously. That can be asked in later questions or interview if necessary.
Annotated screenshot of UI seems like pointless shit too. If you can't tell what's going on in someone's UI screenshot, annotations aren't gunna help a whole damn lot. The UI would be pretty fucked already. The screenshot is very necessary, though I've seen plenty of amazing players who have shit UIs.
Detailing DPS rotation seems valid, but really, if they want to know if you know what you're doing, that's what World of Logs is for.

[Vober]

Well if it's a "high end" guild on your sever I guess they want to make sure you know what you are doing. I've applied for guilds in the past were they have asked for a rotation or even sat next to me at the target dummy and watched my rotation. For the raiding interface, I figured they want to make sure you have raid frames, DBM(whatever you use) ect.. Never heard of the macro thing before, but I don't know what class you are to have useful mouse-over macros or whatnot that's needed.

[Netherspark]

So this kind of thing is common in applications, then?

But it's all just meaningless fluff... all of it. You can't know how good or bad a player is without raiding with them, there is no other way. A person's UI/logs/macros has zero impact on how good they are; I should know, I've been raiding heroics since their inception with a standard UI and barely any addons.

It just seems that these guilds aren't even remotely interested in the important information, and are more concerned with whether or not you fit their misguided perception of a "scrub".

[Willfox]

Listing all macros is a bit intense, I think it would make more sense if they just asked you to list/say what your "important" ones do.
Submitting an annoted screenshot is ridiculous... Easier to just attach one and talk on vent if you have an "interview" stage.
The last is perfectly normal, you will instantly know if they know how to dps if you see this, it doesn't mean they can do it, but it at least gives you an indication that they have read up on how to play.

If they are high end guilds this would make more sense, it weeds out the people that can't be bothered putting in the 5 minutes of effort it takes to fill out the form. Also, generally there are trial periods as I'm sure you are aware, where they DO check how well you actually play.

Maybe they get enough requests for invites that this is there way of not dealing with 5000000 people?

(I assume there is other questions they ask too)

[Deleted]

I've been searching for a new guild recently and today I came accross several seperate guilds with the same really odd questions in their application forms.

They're asking:
1) To list ALL macros I use... in full! (I have about 30 macros on my warlock, are they insane?)
2) To submit an annotated screenshot of my "raiding interface" with detailed descriptions (wtf?)
3) To detail my DPS rotation in multiple situations

I don't get why they're asking for this stuff, it's completely meaningless and offers no real information. I have half a mind to write profanity in those sections instead.

1 - Explaining what macro's you use, and why you use those specific macros show's your knowledge of the game and your class. Nothing wrong in asking an applicant this.

2 - The point behind a detailed screenshot pointing out where where everything is, and more importantly why is to help people see how you do it differently, and if its better than the next person, or if it is a better layout than what they are currently using. for example I would not recruit someone if they have 3 lots of mods doing the same thing without good reasons, or they had their mods set out in such a manor that it obstructed there field of view

3 - Rotations change a lot depending on the situation, Be that an AOE heavy fight, A fight that requires a lot of CC, a Straight up Patchwork fight, one thats heavy in movement. Knowing that someone knows the difference about what to do and when to do it, is better than having to explain to them or have to send them off to go research on what to do.

They are asking this information to prove that you can do what you say you can do. If you can do it, that's fine. But if you cant, and you lie to get into a guild your wasting their time as they might pass over someone else who can do it, and you're wasting your time as guild in question will find out pretty quickly that your full of shit and either bench you or fail your trial and boot you.

I haven't really had to apply to a guild before. In the 6 years i've been raiding I've always just joined guilds without needing any of this. Is this normal for application forms? It just sounds to me like these people are heavily deluded. Every guild I've seen using these kinds of questions have particulary poor progress and appear somewhat casual (or at least not at all "hardcore").

its pretty standard process for a lot of guilds who aim to get into raiding, Just because they have a "particularly poor progress and appear somewhat casual" reputation does not mean that they are not trying to build a decent raid team. Decent raid teams don't just happen over night, They take time to build and by having a heavy screening process they can weed out the people who they don't want and help get the progress that they do want.

I just don't get it, the only information you really need is:
1) Do you have knowledge/experience?
2) Do you have gear?
3) Can you be online at this time?

Anything more is just meaningless information, it's just fluff and serves no purpose. This kind of thing seriously puts me off even applying to guilds, the attitude just rubs me the wrong way.

1 - Prove it (fill in the questions)
2 - Prove it (Link to armory)
3 - Prove it (During trial)

Do you think these guilds actually care about this stuff, or are just using a standard template intended for "top end" guilds and won't really bother reading those sections?

As the Ex-GM of a Raiding guild that was somewhat casual but trying to rebuild I can tell you for 100% certainty that we do care about this stuff. It goes a long way to showing what type of person you are, if your willing to spend 20-30 mins thinking about, and filling in an application form then chances are your the type of person who would go trawling through websites looking for strats and guides to boss encounters, and your character.

If however your the type of person who just demands a guild invite, or fills in one word answers without an explanation it usually means that you will expect everything explained several times over, and this is damn annoying.

if they really put you off then there is nothing to stop you doing something more creative. one of the best tanks I had did not fill out a standard form, instead they spoke to me, explained they where bored of filling apps out over and over again, and could they email me something. I got a PDF file off them with more information than I did off the forum questions.

[namelessone]

Don't you find it funny that there's another thread around where people are complaining how no one wants to raid and they can't fill their guilds with promising players. They are blaming LFR. Right. I'm sure it has nothing to do with crap like this.

[Willfox]

Don't you find it funny that there's another thread around where people are complaining how no one wants to raid and they can't fill their guilds with promising players. They are blaming LFR. Right. I'm sure it has nothing to do with crap like this.

You know... to be fair, I honestly think I'd rather not raid then raid with people that didn't know what they were doing and didn't have the patience to fill out a few questions that take an extremely small portion of their life

[namelessone]

You know... to be fair, I honestly think I'd rather not raid then raid with people that didn't know what they were doing and didn't have the patience to fill out a few questions that take an extremely small portion of their life

I'd rather run LFR than play with people who treat a game like second job. There's a line to "a few questions", and this BS in the OP post absolutely crosses it.

[Deleted]

I'd rather run LFR than play with people who treat a game like second job. There's a line to "a few questions", and this BS in the OP post absolutely crosses it.

the only extreme in the OP's post is list all his macros. simply listing the most relevant ones in a PVE scenario would be perfectly acceptable, No need to list PVP Macro's if he is only looking to raid with the guild.

[Rucati]

I see no reason why a guild would care what macros/ui you use. UI in particular is completely up to the user, I've seen UIs that I think look absolutely horrendous but that other people love, and I've had people say they dislike my UI while I like it a lot. Anyone who chooses to accept/deny someone based on their UI is just stupid, to be honest. Macros I guess can show your knowledge of the game, but even so, it doesn't really impact raiding much. You can raid with no macros just as easily as you can raid with a bunch of them, it depends on playstyle.

DPS rotation would be somewhat important, so you can see if the person knows what they're doing. If they have no idea what their rotation is supposed to be on AoE compared to single target odds are good you don't really want to raid with that person.

[Deleted]

You know... to be fair, I honestly think I'd rather not raid then raid with people that didn't know what they were doing and didn't have the patience to fill out a few questions that take an extremely small portion of their life

The OP is saying theres a difference between 'a few questions' and putting together a thesis. And if ur worried about a player being suck then let he guy run with u to find out. This is ALWAYS the best way to see if the applicant can fit into your raid team exactly the same as its the ONLY way in real life to see if an applicant is any good at his job... whats written on paper rarely shows how good a person is at thier job

Seems funny that its obvious there is a much smaller pool of raiders playing atm and yet some guilds insist on making potential raiders jump through hoops to get into their guild. With guilds closing at an alarming rate cos they cant fill their roster why do some guilds insist on such massive applications?

If i were the OP i would go to another guild, one which has a better grasp of reality...

[Otimus]

I'd rather run LFR than play with people who treat a game like second job. There's a line to "a few questions", and this BS in the OP post absolutely crosses it.

It's gonna get worse, too, as LFR gets more and more attractive, and normals get even less attractive than present. Guilds sort of dig their own holes. It's been like this since late BC/WotLk, as Blizzard makes the game easier, and more open to more people, people become more closed off, exclusive, and finding new and fancy ways to keep people out of "their" content.

Eventually, this is going to kill organized raiding. It's ALREADY a niche activity. Mark my words, it will get worse. In a few years, you're going to see people talking about "Saving" it, like they do with 25 mans and whatnot. As per usual, the WoW community is front and center to screw itself.

[Deleted]

You can learn a great deal from the applicationforms, the more "fluff" as you call it the more info the guild will get from the form. I doubt they would even read through all the 30 macros you've got if you listed them but only by judging which ones you do care to list and/or how thorough it shows your dedication towards the game and also the guild it concerns.

I can even imagine some guilds having "trickquestions" to sort out people.

As mentioned earlier the best way to judge a player is to raid with them however that takes time and effort. If its a tight 10man roster I doubt they want to sit out one of their members just to try someone who has the chance of being awful/rude or just an overall unpleasant raidingexperience.

[muto]

You can learn quite a bit about a player just by looking at his UI. I'd pick the fellow with a nice, streamlined UI over the guy with a train wreck of useless information scattered all over the fucking place any day.

It's what is on the inside that counts; all that glitters isn't gold.

[namelessone]

the only extreme in the OP's post is list all his macros. simply listing the most relevant ones in a PVE scenario would be perfectly acceptable, No need to list PVP Macro's if he is only looking to raid with the guild.

A screenshot of raiding interface is acceptable? No, it marks the guild instantly to me as a bunch of people with serious power chip issues. It's like an employer who asks to see a picture of your living room because they want to "see what kind of person you are".

[Klingers]

While I don't always agree with it in practice, you know why they make these applications so complex? It's a ore-screening process.

The ones who don't give enough of a shit to fill out the complex applications are the kinds of people the guild has decided they don't want in their ranks... That's their choice as a guild.

Is it a bit elitist? Yes, it can be... But again, it's their choice. They're only going to get applicants enthusiastic enough to fill our their form.

[Resentful]

If you can't answer the questions or don't want to fill the form then find another guild like sorry It's how good guilds find decent people even with shitty questions from time to time.