Marksman in the future: Redesign, Rework, or Refit?

[Rackfu]

I don't really care since I love Surv and will play it as long as it is viable...

Stilll, would like to see something like this:

BM: 50% Hunter / 50% pet split in damage (also 50/50 split in physical vs magic damage) - Hunter receives buffs from things pet does while attacking and pet gets buff from Hunter's attacks... Very few procs, mostly cooldowns and trying to get the buffs on you and pet to stack more... NO FILLER ATTACK -- Regens focus passively and the buffs from pet help build it faster.

SURV: 75% Hunter 25% Pet (75% magic / 25% physical damage) --- DoT's plus one hard hitting main attack and one filler (cobra shot)... Lots of procs

MM: 100% Hunter (no pet) (nearly 100% physical damage) --- 2-3 main attacks with short cooldowns plus filler attack (steady shot). Bleeds. Rotation is designed to build up stacks on certain talents and then uses those talents to buff self (damage, attack speed, armor pen, etc...) . Can get multiple buffs up at once.

[Deleted]

I hold out hope that perhaps one day it will be the petless spec. Wishful thinking but it would be a huge change for the class.

or instead fixing pet ai once for all

[Prokne]

or instead fixing pet ai once for all

They should do both. Then I can go without a pet unless Im soloing and then it will act right.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 01:27 AM ----------

As it is our specs are so minimally different it's pathetic.

I think its a result of the new talent system. Some other classes have the same problem like rogues. If they had have left the abilities in the specs that had them before MoP and made all new talents it would have been better.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 01:42 AM ----------

MM: 100% Hunter (no pet) (nearly 100% physical damage) --- 2-3 main attacks with short cooldowns plus filler attack (steady shot). Bleeds. Rotation is designed to build up stacks on certain talents and then uses those talents to buff self (damage, attack speed, armor pen, etc...) . Can get multiple buffs up at once.

IDK about the buffs since it seems like there would be a huge rampup and a severe disadvantage if you cant keep them up easily like the old 8 sec ISS. Having ISS is fine for a self buff, maybe make it last 30 sec.

MM should use chimera and aimed with steady to build focus. No arcane shot. Just those three and any talent shots. Reduce the focus cost on aimed so it can be shot after one steady with ISS up so your rotation loos like AiS-CS-SS-Ais_SS-AiS-SS-SS-CS-AiS. Basically one steady in between aimed and 2 for enough focus to shoot back to back chimera and aimed and keep the ISS buff up. Fill in barrage/glaive off cd after aimed and replace aimed with AMoC when off CD(AMoC focus cost reduced also for all hunters). Also reduce pushback on aimed a lot.

Since the spec would be a "cast" spec vs instant shot specs it would play different. Add in no pet and its very unique compared to the other specs.

I would also change our mastery around to make careful aim(seems more marksman for mastery to improve accuracy) the mastery but work the whole fight. Mastery points would raise your crit chance with aimed and steady. They would just have to make the numbers to limit the crit chance below 100% for the maximum gear during the expansion.

[eschatological]

I'm hoping for a redesign of the whole class at some point. If next xpac's class is dark ranger, I think they'd almost be required to redesign hunters.

[Conando]

Maybe I'm not a big enough dreamer, but I think a simple switch over to a petless spec centered on slowly building and consuming some sort of resource would be a great change that we can realistically lobby for.

Destro locks, for example, have that exact system where they build up embers and consume them on high damage abilities. They're simple to play at a basic level, but skilled players who can consume those resources based on trinket procs and cooldowns outpace players that don't. It gives a lot of fluidity to rotations and puts in a fun and manageable skill cap.

The reason I like that so much is because it's the exact opposite of what SV and BM are at the moment - specs built around doing a fairly complex rotation perfectly over and over.

[Prokne]

Maybe I'm not a big enough dreamer, but I think a simple switch over to a petless spec centered on slowly building and consuming some sort of resource would be a great change that we can realistically lobby for.

Destro locks, for example, have that exact system where they build up embers and consume them on high damage abilities. They're simple to play at a basic levels, but skilled players who can consume those resources based on trinket procs and cooldowns outpace players that don't. It gives a lot of fluidity to rotations and puts in a fun and manageable skill cap.

The reason I like that so much is because it's the exact opposite of what SV and BM are at the moment - specs built around doing a fairly complex rotation perfectly over and over.

I was thinking it would be interesting to have a ranged monk spec which would use Chi as a second resource. I think they should have made the third monk spec a bow/crossbow ranged dps instead of melee since there are already multiple classes that are agi melee and use the same types of weapons. One complaint about monks early on was they were too much like rogues. Not having a pet makes them different from hunters along with the Chi system and some self healing. Brewmaster is the only iconic monk spec anyway and they could have made the others whatever they wanted.

The ember system is cool because it builds up slowly so you can pool it until you want to let loose a bit hit like chaos bolt. If hunters had something like that it would be awesome hitting someone for half their hp with one huge shot.

I dont think Blizzard will do what they should and make a pet free option or spec for hunters. They seem to think hunters=pets and thats all the class is about and dont seem to have any conception of a pet free hunter. So Im hoping for another class thats more of an archer like ranger/dark ranger or a 4th spec for another class like monks or rogues. That probably has more of a chance at happening.

[Dald]

Marks can't be made into a cast heavy spec because cast heavy specs suck in Arena and such.

Think Graves, in terms of what it could be like, if done right.

[Arcanimus]

Lot of people jumping on the completely unrelated petless bandwagon.

Totally didnt see that coming.

[Sett]

I've always tried to stick with MM regardless of how much it lags behind or if it became FOTM and people would QQ. However it's just become so chunky with its rotations and the new skill tree doesn't seem too appealing as MM for a lot of the abilites.

Thus I vote redesign. Take some chunkiness out!

[Prokne]

Lot of people jumping on the completely unrelated petless bandwagon.

Totally didnt see that coming.

Making a spec work without a pet is a viable way of redesigning or refitting it.

[Libertarian]

Chose rework. I feel like the class needs to drop arcane shot and use aimed shot solely as the focus dump.


Steady Focus - After any 2 steady shots

Arcane shot - removed

Aimed shot - 2.25 base cast speed / damage scaled to reflect

Thrill of the Hunt - Reduces focus cost of aimed shot by 20 focus

Kill Shot - some sort of passive that procs a kill shot above 20% (on auto attack / on serpent sting tick)

Pet needs to stay as this is a core part of hunter. The next class that uses ranged/mail agi (most likely) should be pet less.

[Deleted]

I think hunters need a complete redesign too, but the change of mana to focus in Cata is very recently and doesn't seem hunters will be redesign, atleast not soon.
Maybe MM could be redesign in a while...
Yes, i'm a dreamer

[Anium]

I love MM far more than BM or SV in pvp terms, spamming arcane shot in BM gets boring fast.
Honestly, MM is fun to play right now, we could do with more damage no doubt, the binding shot change is cool will provide more utility and great chain options but until a complete rework of MM happens and I mean a petless spec it's just not going to be as attractive as it could be. As to when that rework will happen...next expansion most likely, no chance of sooner.
Shame really, as hunter has been my class ever since tbc and only now am I putting it on the shelf.

[Slirith]

I hold out hope that perhaps one day it will be the petless spec. Wishful thinking but it would be a huge change for the class.

this+OPs bleed idea

[Penguintamer]

Coming from someone who's played the spec for a few expansion, I think it needs a complete rework. Compared to how fun it was to play in WotLK, it's just very poor now.

The main issue is that you spec into Marksmanship and...and you get nothing. You get Chimera Shot...Aimed Shot...Steady Shot... That's not a spec at all. That's not even half of what a unique spec deserves. Chimera Shot is so unbelievably boring compared to what it used to be, that all I consider it to be is a harder-hitting Arcane Shot. It was called Chimera Shot for a reason; most mythical chimaeras have three heads, and back when the ability was first created it had 3 awesome sting interactions for utility. Now it has nothing of worth. Serpent Sting does not belong in the Marksmanship spec if it's just going to be a DoT. They should bring back the Serpent Sting damage that procced off of Chimera Shot.

Meanwhile, Steady Shot and Aimed Shot are about as boring as they come.

It's a little sad when 50% of a spec's rotation is from their talent tree. Very sad indeed. But hey, at least we get Binding Shot. ... ...

[Deleted]

I think a redesign would be pretty darn cool. It would be cool if it emphised heavy hitting but perhaps a tad slower attacks. Something about the current rotation doesn't gel with me.

[erbs101]

I think a redesign would be pretty darn cool. It would be cool if it emphised heavy hitting but perhaps a tad slower attacks. Something about the current rotation doesn't gel with me.

The current problem of MM's rotation is that the focus cost is too huge and forces you to fire steady shots more often.

For Careful Aim i feel they should revert it back to its original build which makes your Aimed Shot Crit for 100% to make the opening rotation focus friendly. Because currently you fire off the following: MoC , stampede, Steady Shot, Serpent Sting and Chimera which has large focus cost. I think the careful aim shot rotation should be Aimed Shot & Steady Shot only. Aimed Shot has already a large casting time and seeing it not crit is just a pain.

After the careful aim phase the rotation is gets better somewhat but still its very stiff compared to SV which has enough focus everytime. I feel barrage focus must be reduced in relation to it.

I feel barrage should be a MM specific skill or tailored for MM maybe something like when you fire multi-shot there's a proc chance to reset the cool down of barrage and cost no focus doing it will also help MM's AOE problems.

As for PETs.. well i wouldn't want to see mm spec with no pets.. but.. what i would like to happen is Cunning Pets could somehow be tweaked to be tailored for MM maybe adds more focus or something.. yes it deals less damage compared to ferocity but adds the utility it needs and besides MM shouldnt rely too much on pets =).

[Tehterokkar]

MM needs to have:

No Pet
Bleeds!
Some cool procs(eg. as mentioned earlier, KS has a chance to be usable on auto shot/Reset CD below 20%)

[Zuul]

They need to rethink mastery for MM it just doesn't work right now. They should make it work with piercing-shots and increase the bleed damage. I am not that crazy about the Careful Aim phase either, it really serves no purpose having the Careful Aim phase at the beginning of the fight, make it the last 20% instead, generally that's when the dps matters anyway.
I like the idea I read earlier of making Barrage into a Marks Aoe talent.

[Kalan]

I just hope that in the next expansion, they focus en redesigning a lot of classes spec instead of adding unneeded new races/classes