Will anything ever be as epic as BC?

[Deleted]

No I don't think so. But it isn't necessarily nostalgia either. It's more got to do with the fact that the game was still "new" and I have the feeling I will indeed have those epic moments again with another game but not in WoW.

[Crym]

I felt Northrend was far more immerse than Outland and that WotLK's storyline was substantially more cohesive than TBC's was.

This for me as well. In Wrath I felt like my character was part of a great charge to break down the doors to ICC and confront the Lich King. It was, by far, the most I've felt "involved" in the world. There were a lot of things that I didn't like, mechanically, about Wrath (healing without concern for mana was really lame, in my opinion) but if I'm voting entirely on how immersive an expansion is Wrath goes on the top.

[MoanaLisa]

Whether or not something is epic is a purely personal thing. I agree with Aucald that how one views the 'epicness' of any expansion depends largely on when you arrived at the game. Add in the element of time passing and the inevitable nostalgia for when things were new and there you go.

Just a personal opinion: Blizzard uses the words 'awesome' and 'epic' all the damn time and they should really stop that. It cheapens the words for one thing and usually raises expectations up to a point where they can't be easily met.

[Fagatronics]

Nostalgia is something that isn't easily returned, and Nostalgia is the primary reason I think people like BC currently.

Nostalgia is an easy blanket statement like casuals or noobs. While I think some people fall into those categories, more people don't.

...idd - as are people who say "If you liked Cata most, your opinion is automatically disqualified"....

Yes, I said that earlier. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But this is the internet after all where stupid comments meet glee filled rebuttals. For example, people have the right to say industrial strength glue is more delicious than ice cream. However, this response makes me question the person's mental makeup to make such an awkward, declarative statement. That's how I feel about players saying Cata is better than BC.

This thread may not have swayed people who weren't keen on how "epic" BC was but I think the vast majority have shown throughout the thread that Cata was the worst.

[KrazyK923]

Serious? Cata was the worst by far.

Easily Wrath > BC > Vanilla = MOP > Cata

Actually no. Even if we're looking at ONLY "epic" moments, Cataclysm wins out. We aren't talking about overall expansion vs overall expansion. BC was only good for its time. Cataclysm, both from a mechanics standpoint and an "epic" standpoint is better. And Cataclysm is very average.

Yes, I said that earlier. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But this is the internet after all where stupid comments meet glee filled rebuttals. For example, people have the right to say industrial strength glue is more delicious than ice cream. However, this response makes me question the person's mental makeup to make such an awkward, declarative statement. That's how I feel about players saying Cata is better than BC.

Or maybe we're able to look at things rationally and not emotionally. Oh, and not with nostalgia glasses.

Keep calling us stupid or disqualifying our opinions or whatnot, though. Really makes me want to take your side.

This thread may not have swayed people who weren't keen on how "epic" BC was but I think the vast majority have shown throughout the thread that Cata was the worst.

Yeah, there's a reason why nobody takes what the general populace of MMO-Champion as any serious indication of anything. Its like Reddit. It's based solely on emotion.

As a final statement, I find it funny people say that BC raids were epic. Really? Karazhan was probably the only one, perhaps the Magtheridon fight and you can throw Kael's fight in it too. Illidan was killed, really, at the middleish of the expansion and then Blizzard scrambled to make sure the story of the expansion wasn't totally ruined. When your expansion's supposed-key villain is overshadowed not only by Kil'jaeden, but Kael'thas too, then you failed.

Hyjal as well deserves a special place in hell. Totally unoriginal boss fights except for Archimonde spaced throughout just waves of trash.

I wonder how many people who say that BC was so awesome actually played it during its time and not after. Imbalanced classes, stupid gating for heroics and raids, nonsensical storyline changes, gutting the expansion villain halfway through the expac, ect.

I'll say it again, BC was good for its time. But its time is far passed.

[Fagatronics]

Or maybe we're able to look at things rationally and not emotionally. Oh, and not with nostalgia glasses.

Keep calling us stupid or disqualifying our opinions or whatnot, though. Really makes me want to take your side.



Yeah, there's a reason why nobody takes what the general populace of MMO-Champion as any serious indication of anything. Its like Reddit. It's based solely on emotion.

Yes, you come off rational and emotionless in your post. I'm not here to get you on my side. Unlike Vanilla, BC, or Wrath there is tangible evidence via the massive sub losses of what players thought of Cata.

I really enjoyed the beginning of Cata since Tier 11 and pre-nerfed heroics were AWESOME imo. After that though... Firelands was too short, DS was just awful, LFR's implementation was poorly executed, and Deathwing's encounters were maybe the biggest disappointment I've had in WoW.

Illidan was killed, really, at the middleish of the expansion and then Blizzard scrambled to make sure the story of the expansion wasn't totally ruined. When your expansion's supposed-key villain is overshadowed not only by Kil'jaeden, but Kael'thas too, then you failed.

I'm sure the WoW community would be up in arms if after SoO Blizz said, "We have more time to kill so we're releasing a final lore oriented raid/patch involving N'Zoth." How dare they give us more content with a bigger lore character!!!!!! And I would say the key villain in Cata was greatly over hyped and grossly underwhelming compared to Illidan.

[Florena]

Yes, you come off rational and emotionless in your post. I'm not here to get you on my side. Unlike Vanilla, BC, or Wrath there is tangible evidence via the massive sub losses of what players thought of Cata.

I really enjoyed the beginning of Cata since Tier 11 and pre-nerfed heroics were AWESOME imo. After that though... Firelands was too short, DS was just awful, LFR's implementation was poorly executed, and Deathwing's encounters were maybe the biggest disappointment I've had in WoW.



I'm sure the WoW community would be up in arms if after SoO Blizz said, "We have more time to kill so we're releasing a final lore oriented raid/patch involving N'Zoth." How dare they give us more content with a bigger lore character!!!!!! And I would say the key villain in Cata was greatly over hyped and grossly underwhelming compared to Illidan.

Yeah. Regardless of whether or not blizz initially intended to do a Sunwell raid at the end of BC, the story was far from filler, if blood elf centric. It concluded the storyline of the Sunwell trilogy, and had great consequences for the blood elf race. Not sure I believe it but I heard an unsubstantiated rumor that sunwell was going to be a Wrath entry raid featuring the blue dragonflight, but that they needed more content for bc and changed it into a Legion raid and altered the story, releasing it in BC and forcing them to redo naxx as they didn't have time for a new raid from the ground up to be ready.

[Deleted]

Nothing will ever come close to the Illidan speech or the ZA Trailer.
Is it the best expansion, no not even close.
Does it have the best lore, nope. Thats Wrath
Does it have the best raids, nope. Thats Wrath again.

But you saw Lich King to much in that expansion, like the first thing you saw when you came to Northrend was Arthas. It just wasnt as epic when you killed him.

[Absintheminded]

Observation: The definition of the word 'epic' is much different for those of us who began in classic and those who began later. To me epic in classic meant more than pretty cutscenes, or disfigured land.

Epic in vanilla were world bosses getting kited to capitals and killing everybody and sight, forcing a GM to step in. Dozens of level 1 Gnomes "raiding" Hogger. The size of the world seemed epic, every raid boss felt epic, getting level 60 and a few blues kinda felt pretty damn epic.

Later, as "epic" stuff became kind of commonplace it takes on a new meaning.

In my opinion Wrath was the most epic because of the collection of all things considered epic. Awesome zones, great use of phasing (in a story-telling sense), Ulduar, cool cut scenes, fighting LK, Ulduar... Really the only things that I didn't like was the length of the expansion and Trial of the Crusader.

[Tziva]

You didn't even finish all the dungeons before WOTLK came out, why should your opinion be valid?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ment#168:14805

Um. The achievement system wasn't implemented until the pre-Wrath patch, and that achievement credit wasn't granted retroactively except in specific circumstances. A great deal of people probably ended up without credit for BC dungeons they had completed since they completed them before achievements were implemented.

[mickloven]

I tend to agree with the OP, but I may be looking back with rose colored glasses as many have said due to the fact that Vanilla was mostly leveling for me so TBC was my first true experience playing end game. My thoughts in no particular order (many of these features still exist today, but were novel at the time).

1. Kara -- This was many people's introduction to raiding and it was a masterpiece.
2. Heroic 5 Mans -- Working through regular dungeons to earn rep to challenge very difficult (especially early on) heroics was amazingly fun.
3. Flying Mounts -- At the time they were novel and gave everyone a new way to explore.
4. Arena -- I hate arena personally, but arena was a much loved addition to the game for many people.
5. Gear -- Quest rewards were meaningful and made you feel like you were progressing as you leveled. Vanilla quest rewards were more or less useless.
6. Badges -- For the first time, if you couldn't get a drop, raiders (and raiders only at that time) could supplement their gear with badge gear.
8. Isle of Q -- The first daily quest hub which included an epic raid, an epic dungeon, meaningful rep gear and world PvP.
9. Crafting -- Epic BOP recipies like Frozen Shadow Weave and the Alchemy Trinket made crafting a lot of fun for the first time.
10. Tier Tokens -- This prevented Tier gear from being wasted.

[Deleted]

I liked Wotlk more then BC, its all subjective with a fair bit of nostalgia thrown in.

[Azutael]

TBC was among the worst expansions for me personally, different people like different things. Who would have known!?
Granted entering the dark portal for the first time is among my most "woah!" moments in WoW ever.

WotLK is so far the expansion I have liked the most, no surprise. Ever since wc3 I have waited to see that story finished, my biggest complaint about WotLK was azjol'nerub, they wasted such a nice opportunity there.
If I with hindsight ignore mechanics, bugs and whatnot from classic. Then that's the best content I have had so far in WoW. Obviously when I look back it wasn't all that great, but at least I had a blast. And that feeling will likely never come back.

[Hooked]

TBC and WOTLK were fun, for me mop is so boring its causing me to slowly quit the game.

[Deleted]

That's not true at all. You're missing something big. It's to the people saying "TBC WAS INDUBITABLY THE BEST, ANYONE WHO DOES NOT THINK SO CAN ROT", in other words. I liked TBC, WoTLK and I like MoP equally and for other reasons, but that doesn't mean it's fact. Some people are trying to write "TBC was best" off as factual, and that is the problem.

Oh, it's true. Just look at so many posts explaining how nostalgia is only reason why we like better some of older expansions. And disregard people who think "anyone who does not think so can rot", that's just some bad thinking.
As most ppl said, epic is very subjective. But some things stand out. Epic is when you have 300+ lvl 1 naked orcs trying to raid Stormwind. Epic was pre-Wrath zombie event. Epic was opening of gates of AQ....
This can be subjective but try to answer. Which is more epic - getting to Illidan on top of Black Temple after a long journey or queing for Lei Shen in RF to get ported in front of him with 2 stacks of Determination, 5-6 people missing and quite a few of them arguing who's momma is fatter or who is baddie?

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 04:47 AM ----------

As a final statement, I find it funny people say that BC raids were epic. Really? Karazhan was probably the only one, perhaps the Magtheridon fight and you can throw Kael's fight in it too. Illidan was killed, really, at the middleish of the expansion and then Blizzard scrambled to make sure the story of the expansion wasn't totally ruined. When your expansion's supposed-key villain is overshadowed not only by Kil'jaeden, but Kael'thas too, then you failed.

Hyjal as well deserves a special place in hell. Totally unoriginal boss fights except for Archimonde spaced throughout just waves of trash.

I wonder how many people who say that BC was so awesome actually played it during its time and not after. Imbalanced classes, stupid gating for heroics and raids, nonsensical storyline changes, gutting the expansion villain halfway through the expac, ect.

I'll say it again, BC was good for its time. But its time is far passed.

Can't agree with that. Cataclysm had worst end boss in history of WoW. Actually, can you call it a boss. You fight tentacles. And it had potential - flying on big bad dragons back. That's pretty good idea. Implementation - not so.
*edit Oh, and Kil'jaiden was most powerful boss we fought so far, would be a shame that he didn't overshadow Illidan (which was awesome). IMO.

[Servasus]

People dont understand that the epicness feeling came from the game actually being a RPG.

WoW is no longer a RPG, it will no longer feel epic ever because everyone and everything is the same, the moment someone has something more than the other one, the forums explode with tears and requests of changes.

Arena is at fault, blizzard knows it, blizzard admitted it was their biggest mistake yet they didnt do anything to change it.

The game isnt that bad still but its no longer a RPG for sure.

RPG = Role-Playing Game. A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game[1][2]) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting.

Remind me which part of that is no longer true in WoW?

So many idiots spouting off opinions as facts on this thread, without thinking about what they are typing before they type it.

The Original Poster's opinion is an opinion. If my answer to his question is supposed to be in context of how HE feels about TBC, then MY answer would be "NOT LIKELY," because clearly he has such strong nostalgia for TBC that most likely he will not be satisfied with any future content that ISN'T TBC. (BUT THIS IS MY OPINION)

However, if he's asking it in the true content of which it should be asked, as in, he wants MY opinion, then my opinion would be:

Yes. There have already been things far more epic than TBC. WoTLK was the best storyline WoW has ever seen (in my opinion) and MoP has delivered the most plentiful, varied, POLISHED and fun content WoW has ever offer to me. (Again, in my opinion)

It would be more beneficial to everyone if we could all stop talking like our opinions are fact. I know I've been guilty of it plenty of times, but maybe we can all try a little harder. Because saying something like, "WoW is no longer an RPG" is your opinion, and if we really wanted to take the actual definition of what an RPG is and test your argument, you would, for debate's sake, actually be wrong.

But who's counting, right?

[Krayzz]

I get as hard over BC as the next guy.. But.. BC wasn't really THAT good... There have been numerous improvements to the game since then. While BC may have had many great moments, that hardly compares the amount of piled up shit that the rest of that expansion was.

[Deleted]

Cata and Mists are much better expansions than TBC. The only reason people like TBC is because of nostalgia

Cata was absolute dogshit. Only expansion that made me quit the game for more than 6 months.

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 03:51 AM ----------

I get as hard over BC as the next guy.. But.. BC wasn't really THAT good... There have been numerous improvements to the game since then. While BC may have had many great moments, that hardly compares the amount of piled up shit that the rest of that expansion was.

I'm gonna say that to me BC was by far the best expansion, followed by MoP, for one main reason: Arenas. Arena PvP was truly great back then, after Wrath hit it was never the same sadly.

[Taiknee]

The main things I liked about BC were:

-World PvP objectives in multiple zones
-Zones having their own unique color that was clearly different than any other zone in outland
-Levels weren't as important in PvP as they have become the past few xpacs, mainly due to how Blizzard scaled gear with expansions ("Wanting it to feel like an upgrade/didn't want you to be able to quest to max level in your former gear")
-Fast PvP damage
-Hybrid talent trees
-No death knights

[K i s u]

Nostalgia is the most powerful thing out there, makes you able to see passed all the little annoyances for just a few things you enjoyed even if they were vastly outweighed. I know I love TBC so much just for that reason.. though if you tried i'm sure you could think up at least one "Epic" thing from each xpac.