Patch 5.3 PTR. Attonement Nerf

[Spotnick]

is the glyph of smite change a new nerf? not sure I saw that one before.

[Destian]

Spamming one spell for dps AND healing is so fucking creative and fun.

Cause health bar whack-a-mole is such a thrill, right?

Trying to maximize your atonement DPS while spot healing and making good use of your other heals is what makes the class fun to play.

[Mazi]

Cause health bar whack-a-mole is such a thrill, right?

Trying to maximize your atonement DPS while spot healing and making good use of your other heals is what makes the class fun to play.

In your opinion :P

[Deleted]

play holy if you dont like the Hybrid Disc healing.

[Deleted]

I don't understand how Disc Priests can defend Atonement. Atonement has no weaknesses:

> mana positive
> benefits throughput (AA)
> smart
> high damage
> usable while moving (Penance/Solace)

Does Atonement have a single weakness?

[Anastacy]

I don't understand how Disc Priests can defend Atonement. Atonement has no weaknesses:

> mana positive
> benefits throughput (AA)
> smart
> high damage
> usable while moving (Penance/Solace)

Does Atonement have a single weakness?

While being a smart heal, it doesn't always heal the highest priority target (aka tanks) in situations where the lowest HP raid member isn't going to take additional damage any time soon.

So, there *is* that.

[Kelesti]

While being a smart heal, it doesn't always heal the highest priority target (aka tanks) in situations where the lowest HP raid member isn't going to take additional damage any time soon.

So, there *is* that.

Neither does any smart heal. Which is why a Beacon and rolled HoTs cover the second that you miss on Tank heals and that tanks don't get globalled anymore.

Not a true downside.

[Anastacy]

Neither does any smart heal. Which is why a Beacon and rolled HoTs cover the second that you miss on Tank heals and that tanks don't get globalled anymore.

Not a true downside.

A downside is a downside (note how I didn't equate it to any drawbacks with other heals).

And 10man raids with 2 Disc Priests? You forgot those.

(and not to mention the 50% reduced healing if the Atonement target is the casting Priest, which exacerbates my previous point)

[ramennoodleking]

A downside is a downside (note how I didn't equate it to any drawbacks with other heals).

And 10man raids with 2 Disc Priests? You forgot those.

(and not to mention the 50% reduced healing if the Atonement target is the casting Priest, which exacerbates my previous point)

Two discs in a 10 man sounds awful.

[Deleted]

So the only downside to Atonement is that 2 Discs in a 10 man is a bad setup...

A cause for concern.

On a serious note, Atonement should just do what MWs Fistweaving does: 50% of the damage you do is healing.

[ramennoodleking]

Agree completely.

[Anastacy]

So the only downside to Atonement is that 2 Discs in a 10 man is a bad setup...

A cause for concern.

On a serious note, Atonement should just do what MWs Fistweaving does: 50% of the damage you do is healing.

No, the drawback to Atonement in a 10man is that you're relying on your other healer(s) to heal up a tank if you decided to Atonement at the wrong time...that Atonement shares this drawback with other smart heals is of no importance (with exclusion to Chain Heal, somewhat, since you can pick the initial target). It's still a drawback to Atonement, whether unique or not...

...besides the whole "heals the casting priest for 50% instead" deal...

Context, people. I wish they taught it in school, or something.

Which, also I feel must be said because some of you tend to take shit overboard, I'm not arguing in favor of Atonement. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate after someone asked if there were ANY drawbacks.

[ramennoodleking]

You just dug yourself right into a hole. You said "if you decided to use atonement at the wrong time." That's not a fault of the spell, it's operator error.

Atonement at the moment doesn't have any real drawbacks all things considered.

[Deleted]

Ofc there are drawbacks... Coming from the very nature of atonement - they need hostile target. So when target is immune(some phases of bosses) and/or targed tas some damage reduction(Primordius), Atonement price drops.
+correct me if Im wrong about monks fistweaving, but as far as I know, 50% of monks fistweaving heals come around him + another 50% around his statue...

[Deleted]

You just dug yourself right into a hole. You said "if you decided to use atonement at the wrong time." That's not a fault of the spell, it's operator error.

Atonement at the moment doesn't have any real drawbacks all things considered.

I would agree on the general matter, atonement is too good and needed nerf. However, saying it has no drawback is a little bit too far.

If you had a spell that healed the whole raid instant for 100% of their life for 1 mana, but is only usable when the target is at exactly 27.2% health and at a 7-8 yard range and if you cast it at any other percentage it instantly kills a raid member, you would not be justified saying "it's operator error if the he uses it badly." :

The difficulty to use a spell or the condition it requires to be efficient are a part of it's balance. The point i made is of course very exagerated but it's to nuance the claim that "atonement has NO drawback", it's just that the drawbacks are too little for the efficiency of the spell.

[DPA]

Ofc there are drawbacks... Coming from the very nature of atonement - they need hostile target. So when target is immune(some phases of bosses) and/or targed tas some damage reduction(Primordius), Atonement price drops.
+correct me if Im wrong about monks fistweaving, but as far as I know, 50% of monks fistweaving heals come around him + another 50% around his statue...

Yes, this is correct.

[Deleted]

It's silly to judge atonement by itself, it has to be taken in the context of the entire specc.

You shouldn't look at atonement drawbacks, you should look at disc drawbacks:
- no other smart heal (except a pom significantly weaker than the holy version): disc is atm the only class in game without a smart aoe heal (except a >possible< 3 target penance).
- no "ohshit" button for the times when your raid took massive unexpected damage.
- poor aoe healing in a spread 25 man environment, unless your raidleader does specific group assigns; even in bunched up environments, disc max output atm is lower than all other classes. Sure the issue is alleviated by barrier but it doesn't change the fact that if shit hits the fan, a disc is your worst choice to fix things.

And before somebody mentions cascade, it is not a smart heal. If you have a person with 90% hp 30 yards away and one at 10% hp next to you, it will go for the 90% one.

[Kelesti]

Ofc there are drawbacks... Coming from the very nature of atonement - they need hostile target. So when target is immune(some phases of bosses) and/or targed tas some damage reduction(Primordius), Atonement price drops.

Didn't they fix this as of like 5.1? That damage reduction effects (Shield Wall, Resilience) will have the heal triggered at full value, but the damage reduced?

[Kiea]

I honestly wish they would revert Atonement to how it was in early cata, basicly a tank healing tool.

My way to fix how Atonement is now is to -

Buff Penance damage (Since Disc DPS is lower than other healer's DPS, maybe exception being Resto Shaman)
Remove Penance from Atonement, I'm not sure when Penance was added to Atonement, but it's a bad a idea since Penance is your main big heal.
Nerf Smite damage but keep the amount healed the same.
Nerf the range on Atonement, so it only reaches within 15 or 20 yards of the target.

My biggest problem with Atonement is that Penance is part of it, it is too good and Penance should feel like a powerful heal, not a powerful damage ability AND heal.

With this healing should remain the same, but damage be nerfed a lot, however if we please we can use penance on the boss for additional DPS, but no healing.

[Deleted]

Didn't they fix this as of like 5.1? That damage reduction effects (Shield Wall, Resilience) will have the heal triggered at full value, but the damage reduced?

I dont pvp, but I think he was talking about pve phases when for some reason the hostile target becomes unavailable. For example, on Lei shi, she goes into hideout, Primordius gets a dmg reduction buff, etc. Still, this is a bit of a straw picking, for once, there's hardly any such occurrences, and its more likely nowadays for the boss to get an increased dmg buff rather than a decreased one, and second, we still have our healing spells.

One minor annoying thing with atonement is facing the boss always and the 30 yards range. Defensive penance turns you towards your target (which sometimes is in your back) but the offensive one doesn't. I wouldn't call it a "drawback" its just sometimes confusing after penancing somebody to hit smite or holy fire and realize they are not working, because you turned ). As a healer you dont really need to position yourself much in accord with the boss or face anything specific and unless you are on some specific tank duty, you can move around more freely. But as said, this is nitpicking.

Buff Penance damage (Since Disc DPS is lower than other healer's DPS, maybe exception being Resto Shaman)
Remove Penance from Atonement, I'm not sure when Penance was added to Atonement, but it's a bad a idea since Penance is your main big heal.
Nerf Smite damage but keep the amount healed the same.
Nerf the range on Atonement, so it only reaches within 15 or 20 yards of the target.

Which is pretty much what it was in cata, except back then it also restored mana?
This would mean they admitting that the only thing they did for disc in mop is spirit shell. Blizzard doesnt really like to backtrack on major direction and its clear they wanted to play with atonement. Its flavor of the expansion, next to monks.