What's your predictions for the Q1 Call?

[Conscious]

To relate this to the actual thread topic: I don't know if that's enough to keep people around. However common sense would lead one to think that more access to more things is going to be better for retention over the long run than working on a model that's based on restricting access.

However, the on the flip side of that coin, one could argue that easier access leads to being bored faster, whereas restricted access will keep you working.

Personally I think Blizzard (with their dailies) tried to opt for the 'keep you busy' aspect, but the community doesn't seem to want anything to do with that approach.

[MoanaLisa]

However, the on the flip side of that coin, one could argue that easier access leads to being bored faster, whereas restricted access will keep you working.

Couple of things, both relatively minor:

1. Personally, I'd rather have things to do than no things to do. Grindiness isn't a problem if you don't mind what you're doing. Some dailies were OK in this respect. Others--particularly GL dailies--were simply annoying. I still haven't gotten beyond Honored with them mostly because I loathe the subjugated serpents and the unleashed spirits and think that the changes coming in 5.3 (ungating Shado-Pan and August Celestials) are two patches too late. They're not overly difficult to do but they annoy me no end so I didn't bother with GL quests when those mobs are out and still don't. I think that kind of stuff if not addressed right away is the sort of thing that cause people to just say "Fuck it" and unsubscribe for a couple of months. In that sense it doesn't need to be a big philosophical thing or anything that causes giant forum arguments. Small annoyances can easily make for not logging on because there are better things you can do with your time and enough of that and you're out for good.

2. Mildly related: turning a video game into 'work' is something I'm not overly fond of. Some people embrace it. Me, not so much. There really has never been that much in the game that I ever considered worth 'working' for in that sense. I have a lot of dragons I can fly on. I don't need to work at something I hate to get another one. On the other hand, I've been pursuing Ashes of Alar for the better part of two years but I don't consider running Tempest Keep as a regular thing work. If I skip it for a month I'm fine with that. Mostly, I'm not interested in doing the 'showing off' thing.

Maybe I'm the odd one out on how I play. Wouldn't be the first time.

[But I Hate You All]

Problem is they refuse to acknowledge the reason subs went down is because people want a challenging but not outright grindy game. Cata was about going super hard, then super easy, now MoP is about grindy.

Funny the guy that makes Oque claims they droped because of the pvpers.

No one knows why subs droped

[Goatfish]

Wow could gain a million sub's and people will cry about how wow is dead and dying... Most of the time you can't fix stupidity.

I could say the same about how WoW can lose 25% of its player base and people will still white knight it as being the most perfect and wonderful game in existence that will live forever.

[Seefer]

Because people really want to see Blizzard fail for some insane reason, even though they're one of the only big game makers consistently churning out awesome games.

Really? There are awesome games out there and more coming out soon, personally for me the only thing keeping me in game is a small handful of friends and the amount of money and time invested in this game, but if Elder Scrolls Online proves to be what I hope it is I am gone.

[Bizerk]

Really? There are awesome games out there and more coming out soon, personally for me the only thing keeping me in game is a small handful of friends and the amount of money and time invested in this game, but if Elder Scrolls Online proves to be what I hope it is I am gone.

It will probably prove to be the "end of wow" prophecy bringers' salvation in the same way rift, guild wars 2, star wars, etc etc etc was.

[Pann]

It will probably prove to be the "end of wow" prophecy bringers' salvation in the same way rift, guild wars 2, star wars, etc etc etc was.

Most people know that nothing is going to topple WOW's dominance the majority of the people who I saw proclaiming that those games would be the end of WOW were WOW fans who would then use this as confirmation of WOW's brilliance when each game failed.

[BenBos]

Really? There are awesome games out there and more coming out soon, personally for me the only thing keeping me in game is a small handful of friends and the amount of money and time invested in this game, but if Elder Scrolls Online proves to be what I hope it is I am gone.

Yawn ... It amazes me that after 7 years people still come up with this nonsense...

I am even too lazy to sum up all those failures from the last 7 years as I would need 2 pages to sum them up.

----> while the usual suspects always come in here and talk about "only" X million subsriptions ...I would like to point out that ... all those other MMO 's are now down to ... ZERO subscriptions as they went free to play.

Ok EVE hovers around 400k, but the rest of the bunch lost ALL meaningful subscription numbers.

So while the rest stands at zero or a few thousand, I think Blizzard is doing an amazing job by holding on to multi million subs.

And frankly, is anyone surprised ? Of course not. The pool of potential Blizzard players is SOOOO huge, you have to consider that 30-40 million followers is just the bare minimum who hop in from time to time.

You saw that in D3, you'll see it in Titan. The rest is glad they can address 5% of that market ... In ... Free to play...

Stop dreaming of killing this thing.

[Pann]

Yawn ... It amazes me that after 7 years people still come up with this nonsense...

I am even too lazy to sum up all those failures from the last 7 years as I would need 2 pages to sum them up.

----> while the usual suspects always come in here and talk about "only" X million subsriptions ...I would like to point out that ... all those other MMO 's are now down to ... ZERO subscriptions as they went free to play.

Ok EVE hovers around 400k, but the rest of the bunch lost ALL meaningful subscription numbers.

So while the rest stands at zero or a few thousand, I think Blizzard is doing an amazing job by holding on to multi million subs.

And frankly, is anyone surprised ? Of course not. The pool of potential Blizzard players is SOOOO huge, you have to consider that 30-40 million followers is just the bare minimum who hop in from time to time.

You saw that in D3, you'll see it in Titan. The rest is glad they can address 5% of that market ... In ... Free to play...

Stop dreaming of killing this thing.

He makes no mention of any game killing WOW, only that he will play another game if it is as good as he hopes.

[LilSaihah]

I predict the apocalypse. All franchises down. WoW lost fifty billion subscribers. Nobody's buying D3 anymore. Heart of the Swarm did not meet expectations. EVERYTHING'S ALL OVER

Seriously though subs will be down by the same numbers as last time.

[BenBos]

He makes no mention of any game killing WOW, only that he will play another game if it is as good as he hopes.

He forgot that he is only one of those 30-40 million Blizzard players who played it. So what he thinks is irrelevant.

The blizzard pool is so huge and the rest of the bunch has the size of a rain drop.

People talk here about millions as if they are about hundreds.

And as I stated these are ... PAYING subscriptions EACH month. While the rest is free to play: zero per month.

It is rather useless to talk about subscriptions when all the rest went free to play in order to assemble a handful players... To survive.

The difference 1 billions dollars each year in revenue while the rest is ailing for some coins ...

[Starving Artist]

people sick of dailies grind and wow just getting old ..lots of new mmo's to try out ...lots of lost subs I base that on how they just had a 50% of sale for the expansions .

My guess ...down to 9m subs

[BenBos]

people sick of dailies grind and wow just getting old ..lots of new mmo's to try out ...lots of lost subs I base that on how they just had a 50% of sale for the expansions .

My guess ...down to 9m subs

As long as that rest stays on 0 subs: the discussion is useless...

[Pann]

He forgot that he is only one of those 30-40 million Blizzard players who played it. So what he thinks is irrelevant.

The blizzard pool is so huge and the rest of the bunch has the size of a rain drop.

People talk here about millions as if they are about hundreds.

And as I stated these are ... PAYING subscriptions EACH month. While the rest is free to play: zero per month.

Where are those 30-40 million now? They are no longer "Blizzard players" they are ex-players they have decided that for whatever reason the game is not worth paying for.

What does it matter if other games are free to play or not? This thread is about the number WOW subs.

[Jtbrig7390]

It will probably prove to be the "end of wow" prophecy bringers' salvation in the same way rift, guild wars 2, star wars, etc etc etc was.

Offtopic: I felt that I must tell you that I am watching Vash the stampede right now on episode 16 "finally getting to watch the whole series"

Ontopic: Like I said early'er at lease 300k sub drop.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 08:22 AM ----------

Yawn ... It amazes me that after 7 years people still come up with this nonsense...

I am even too lazy to sum up all those failures from the last 7 years as I would need 2 pages to sum them up.

----> while the usual suspects always come in here and talk about "only" X million subsriptions ...I would like to point out that ... all those other MMO 's are now down to ... ZERO subscriptions as they went free to play.

Ok EVE hovers around 400k, but the rest of the bunch lost ALL meaningful subscription numbers.

So while the rest stands at zero or a few thousand, I think Blizzard is doing an amazing job by holding on to multi million subs.

And frankly, is anyone surprised ? Of course not. The pool of potential Blizzard players is SOOOO huge, you have to consider that 30-40 million followers is just the bare minimum who hop in from time to time.

You saw that in D3, you'll see it in Titan. The rest is glad they can address 5% of that market ... In ... Free to play...

Stop dreaming of killing this thing.

Hey look its benbos doing the samething he dose in every D3/WOW thread. Clearly you didn't read the reply you replyed to because he did not claim that ESO was going to kill WOW he just hopes that it is what he wants it to be and if it is he won't be playing WOW anymore.

Just like I love NW and won't be playing any other MMORPG.

---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 08:23 AM ----------

He forgot that he is only one of those 30-40 million Blizzard players who played it. So what he thinks is irrelevant.

Your comment is Irrelevant since all you do is white knight blizzard in nearly every single D3/WOW thread.

I find it funny that 9 times out of 10 the WOW killer comment comes from a WOW fan trying to start something.......

[papaz]

Subs are definetely going down. 500k at least.

It won't be a bigger drop than that because Blizzard is pushing out content faster in order to try keeping players.

Blizzard won't give any details about expansions on the conference call. Hopefully they will at least mention Titan but I doubt it. They are probably saving up the juicy stuff for Blizzcon.

[BenBos]

Where are those 30-40 million now? They are no longer "Blizzard players" they are ex-players they have decided that for whatever reason the game is not worth paying for.

What does it matter if other games are free to play or not? This thread is about the number WOW subs.

Because the pool is still there. That's the only thing that matters in the long run.

It matters because in a free to play industry it is useless to discuss Blizzard's paid subscriptions.

Even 1 M subs in a free to play industry would be owning the industry as such.

That's THE difference with 3 years ago: the battle of subs (and the money) was decided years ago.

Importance? future resources.

So you are discussing a rather meaningless topic. It was useful when you had competition in that subs field ... But now this discussion is complete redundant.

[Nerraw]

+/- 100k-300k. I tihnk it could go either way. 5.2 is a pretty good tier, and the dailies have improved a lot since 5.0.

[LilSaihah]

Because the pool is still there. That's the only thing that matters in the long run.

It matters because in a free to play industry it is useless to discuss Blizzard's paid subscriptions.

Even 1 M subs in a free to play industry would be owning the industry as such.

That's THE difference with 3 years ago: the battle of subs (and the money) was decided years ago.

Importance? future resources.

So you are discussing a rather meanngless topic.

A customer base that may not be paying anything is what matters in the long run

Yet a F2P game with a large customer base that may not be paying anything is irrelevant.

I'm not quite sure why I'm actually responding to you; I very strongly doubt you'll actually take anything on board, but to suggest that not measuring subscription revenue or a sub-based game's userbase and comparing it to a F2P game's revenue or userbase is pointless is ridiculous.

[Deleted]

They have been dropping in subscribers for quite a while, with MoP release being the only bump. So my guess is that they have lost another 100-500 thousand subscribers.

Even if ToT is a good raid, most people don't really raid so I doubt it's going to have any real effect.