[Megathread] StarCraft 2

[Deleted]

So Jeff left Quantic on good terms due to sponsorship conflictions. Interesting to see where he goes from here.

[Deleted]

What's a good website to find build orders? I've been at Gosubuilds but they don't have alot of builds to choose from.

[Deleted]

What's a good website to find build orders? I've been at Gosubuilds but they don't have alot of builds to choose from.

Avoid Gosubuilds.

/r/allthingsprotoss
/r/allthingszerg
/r/allthingsterran

The best builds from latest tournaments, and brand new builds are usually written out there with links to VODs. Teamliquid.net has a great deal of builds in the forums and on Liquipedia, although liquipedia isn't so up to date atm.

Apollo is also doing his race guides again starting with Terran this friday too, which will be simple builds becoming more complex as the tutorials go on. They're always very clear and well presented so if you're just getting started they're perfect.

[Deleted]

That second game by Suppy and Heart was amazing! What a comeback by Suppy!

[blib]

That second game by Suppy and Heart was amazing! What a comeback by Suppy!

Only problem I have with that though is that he shouldn't be able to come back from that position. They might still need to do something about the infestor. He didn't win by superior play just by having a very strong a move army Heart couldn't possibly attack into because of fungals and he couldn't wait out because of infested Terrans cleaning out mines.

[Deleted]

They might still need to do something about the infestor

Lol.

He didn't win by superior play just by having a very strong a move army Heart couldn't possibly attack into because of fungals and he couldn't wait out because of infested Terrans cleaning out mines.

That's incredibly contradictory.

[Deleted]

Infestor's counter marines and they already took massive nerfs, any more and they would be useless. Suppy just had a better base trade with his ultras dropping Hearts production down to nothing and only engaged on creap. Plus Ultra/ling/infestor/bling/corrupter/queen is a stronger comp than bio/mine/medi/raven.

[cudomix]

Flying vs Roro game 1, skytoss vs swarm hosts/viper/corruptor, it was simply brutal to watch.

[Deleted]

Figured with maintenance I could just play a little on EU. Nope. Bug fix patch so my client out dates EU server since they aren't getting the patch till later

Yeah it's currently screwing MaximusBlack over trying to do bootcamp with Puck.

[blib]

Infestor's counter marines and they already took massive nerfs, any more and they would be useless. Suppy just had a better base trade with his ultras dropping Hearts production down to nothing and only engaged on creap. Plus Ultra/ling/infestor/bling/corrupter/queen is a stronger comp than bio/mine/medi/raven.

The problem is that the infestor also counter mines. If you add in the Ultras and banes which you absolutely have to kite to be able to survive infestors are just too strong. How can the Terran engage that army? If he gets in range he will get fungaled and massacred. Heart was miles ahead in absolutely everything and he microed better in the engagements then Suppy. That should win you the game. Doing everything better then your opponent should win.

I do think tanks would bee a good idea vs infestors.

You could easily nerf the infestor more and still keep it viable. The rooting in place alone is worth the investment considering bio is only good vs blings and ultras if they can kite. Either nerf the range or the damage.

Not that this matter much but I play Zerg in masters and Terrans are usually a free win if you can keep their early harass in check.

I do agree that when a random mine explodes 12 of your banes somewhere on the map I want to bang my head in the wall and in moments like that Terran feels absolutly op. But with overlord speed or infestors mines are nothing. Bio dies when it can't kite so how should Terran fight the Zerg army?

[-Zait-]

The problem is that the infestor also counter mines. If you add in the Ultras and banes which you absolutely have to kite to be able to survive infestors are just too strong. How can the Terran engage that army? If he gets in range he will get fungaled and massacred. Heart was miles ahead in absolutely everything and he microed better in the engagements then Suppy. That should win you the game. Doing everything better then your opponent should win.

I do think tanks would bee a good idea vs infestors.

You could easily nerf the infestor more and still keep it viable. The rooting in place alone is worth the investment considering bio is only good vs blings and ultras if they can kite. Either nerf the range or the damage.

Not that this matter much but I play Zerg in masters and Terrans are usually a free win if you can keep their early harass in check.

I do agree that when a random mine explodes 12 of your banes somewhere on the map I want to bang my head in the wall and in moments like that Terran feels absolutly op. But with overlord speed or infestors mines are nothing. Bio dies when it can't kite so how should Terran fight the Zerg army?

God forbid mines can't destroy everything. And you're contradicting yourself, you say "How could Terran engage that army" then say "He should've gone tanks."

Your argument doesn't make much sense.

[blib]

God forbid mines can't destroy everything. And you're contradicting yourself, you say "How could Terran engage that army" then say "He should've gone tanks."

Your argument doesn't make much sense.

You can counter mines easily with both lings and overlords with speed. I'm saying infestors hard counters all bio and mines which is fairly silly for one unit. Mines destroy everything? Please, mines must be the most easily countered unit in the game.

I'm asking how you can confront a army he can't attack into because of fungals. Feel free to answer the question.

How is saying I believe tanks would have been helpful contradicting my statement that he can't attack into it?

He still couldn't but at least then the infestors would have had to eat tank shoots if they wanted to fungal.

The plain and simple truth is that the mines get neutralized by infested Terrans giving Terrans no cover and as soon as the bio comes in range of infestors you lose the ability to micro. How do you fight that?

[Deleted]

Infestors using infested terrans to clear out mines are losing energy they could be using to cast slow-as-fuck-fungals, which are now a friggin art to land.
Also, to clear out a minefield with terrans, you need to drop the egg in such a spot that it wont immediately be destroyed by your bio, but will be close enough to trigger the detonation. This takes precise aim to use effectively, because if you just pepper eggs everywhere to detonate them, they won't be fungalling any time soon.

Need i remind you that without the Infestor to counter the bio ball, the Zerg would not be able to counter the bio ball. Ultras would be kited to Africa while mines splash wittles them down and heavily damages if not kills all banelings and zerglings in the immediate vacinity.
"Well use a different composition" This is not possible. By going the marine/marauder/medivac/mine composition, you force the zerg to play with Ultras, lings, mutas and infestors to be able to keep up with a relentless amount of drops which cannot simply be stopped via static defense. Trust me if they were a cost effective way of stopping drops you'd see all of us, GSL players included making them at the 9 minute mark en masse just to stop terran drop play ever manifesting in the mid-late game.
Infestors, which i might add, are slow as shit [they make some of the people at /r/texasfuckyeah look quick] are only just about hanging on as part of the Zerg composition for players with excellent control.

What most people who do not play Zerg at a high level don't realise is, get this "ZERG CANNOT BE A_MOVED ANYMORE". Detonating mines with infestors takes precision control, landing fungals takes precision control. Just as your stutter step requires you to be contstantly in control of your bio ball, our Ultra/ling control is based around not getting our shit kited endlessly.
Widow Mines at the front of your army, which are burrowed providing cover, do not get moved. They sit there, you control 1 bio ball over it trying to kite the Zerg army across, and they go off. To destroy these 75/25? cost units, we need to deliberately lose army to force the detonation, invest in Broodlords, which is basically like saying "ok i cant defend drops anymore go ahead", or use precious infestor energy which we need to lock down bio for ling/ultra to engage.

Overlords as mine soakers is arguably worse. It requires you to overmake Overlords/Overseers as they WILL die if you fly them out to soak mine hits for your army. They're not just sitting in a group over a safe spot in our base for nothing. They're there because killing them supply blocks us and rebuilding them costs 100 minerals per go.
Half of them turn into overseers by the end of the game just to know where the hell your mines are. Which means some of them are probably going to end up dead, especially if you decide to get 1 or 2 vikings out towards late game just to get rid of our detection, something which people really don't do enough.

To sum it up just ever so briefly. Infestors are barely hanging on to being involved in the meta game since their waterfall of nerfs. Doing anything to them right now would see them erased completely. They're too easy to snipe off and are incredibly micro intensive for what is already a micro intensive matchup for Zerg.

And might i remind you, you said precisely:

They might still need to do something about the infestor. He didn't win by superior play just by having a very strong a move army Heart couldn't possibly attack into because of fungals and he couldn't wait out because of infested Terrans cleaning out mines.

You refer to his army as A-move while saying it was because of fungals and infested terrans. Something which is a complete oxymoron in itself.

[Wass]

Agree, infestors need no nerf. That'd be batshit insane. Even I as a Terran can agree with this, and if I get trapped by fungal I salute the zerg for good aim.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Are you guys happy with the game so far?
Been thinking about buying it, not sure if it's worth it.

Also, did anything change from the first SC2 when it comes to specs?

[Wass]

Not so much in specs afaik. HotS runs just like WoL.

I'm very happy with SC2. The imbaness that used to be Zerg in WoL is gone, and it is much more balanced across the board now. The only retarded matchup is ZvZ.

---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 09:15 PM ----------

ToD has given VortiX a new nickname, Karronte Cucaracha

[Deleted]

Are you guys happy with the game so far?
Been thinking about buying it, not sure if it's worth it.

Also, did anything change from the first SC2 when it comes to specs?

The only way this game can get better balance wise from where it is now is by removing 2 of the races and just having every match a mirror match.
The one change that needs to come is something needs to be added to ZvZ to make it less tedious than watching paint dry. And that's not a balance thing.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Not so much in specs afaik. HotS runs just like WoL.

I'm very happy with SC2. The imbaness that used to be Zerg in WoL is gone, and it is much more balanced across the board now. The only retarded matchup is ZvZ.

---------- Post added 2013-05-07 at 09:15 PM ----------

ToD has given VortiX a new nickname, Karronte Cucaracha

The only way this game can get better balance wise from where it is now is by removing 2 of the races and just having every match a mirror match.
The one change that needs to come is something needs to be added to ZvZ to make it less tedious than watching paint dry. And that's not a balance thing.

haha, thanks for the input !
I'm not too worried about that, as I'm fairly noobish with SC, but thanks for letting me know anyway!

[Wass]

haha, thanks for the input !
I'm not too worried about that, as I'm fairly noobish with SC, but thanks for letting me know anyway!

You're welcome. The people in this thread are all very nice to discuss with, I've found. (Except for the occasional spammer/troll/flamer, but those get banned right away.)

Do tell if you do get it.

[blib]

Infestors are micro intensive? You need precise aim? Are you kidding me?

If the bio is close to the mines they will get fungaled that is why you need only a few eggs to take them out and the bio ball can do nothing about it. If you cannot predict where a stutter stepping Terran is going you are terrible. No it isn't hard to aim, you need 5-6 infestors and you fungal behind them because they can't go forward because there is blings coming in from the front. Even if he splits perfectly, while stutter stepping, with 5-6 infestors, even after spewing out 4-5 eggs you can easily catch most of his army.

The skill required from the Terran to split perfectly while avoid blings, Ultras and the fungals is vastly greater then what is required from a Zerg to press F and aim a bit behind the Terran army.

You did read the part where I said I play Zerg? In masters, fairly high masters as well.

Throwing out 4-5 infested Terrans and pressing F and click a bit behind the Terran army requires skills? No and I do count it as A-move. If you count that as proper micro you might as well count mine burrowing as micro. Please don't compare that to stutter step and splitting micro.