dream trash

[Redpanda]

Seems like everyone complained that there is too much trash in ToT. Before people complained not enough trash. So my queston......How much trash is enough trash? What kind of trash do you what?

[Deleted]

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10char

Infracted; Don't spam. (Sonnillon)

[Redpanda]

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but everyone hated ToGC. Im indifferent to trash

[Deleted]

but everyone hated ToGC. Im indifferent to trash

because ToGC was terrible regardless of the amount of trash.

[Deleted]

For me, BWD has the perfect amount of trash. A few mobs in between bosses is all that's needed imo. Trash is just not interesting to me.

[Jadè]

That bridge part in ToT... Crap trash (despite it being funny to hear people have their "OH SHI...." moments on mumble).

Those couple of Storm summoning Trolls before Jin'rohk and after the bridge... Decent trash.

I guess trash is good if it's something that acts like a mini-boss but can still be done in a steady manner.

[Hoofnmouth]

If the dropped gear at a bit higher rate it would not be so annoying.

[Noorri]

The Jin'rohk trash is perfect. A couple of pulls, they can kill you if you slack of to much but they aren't huge investment in time. But the most important thing when it comes to trash is variety.

[Bonsaii]

Trash for each boss:
Jin; Good
Horrdion; too much and shitty placement
Council; little bit much, could have cut out that big central pull or the later priest pulls
Tortos; I liked it, might have been a little too little, but good overall
Megaera; Holy balls batman its fucking everywhere
Ji'kun; Same issue with Megaera. Optional trash is a cool idea, in reality it just works out annoying when stupid people pull. Especially makes me hate LFR.
Durumu; Takes way too long, the quest for durumu trash was my favorite ever. Cause it skipped all the annoying shit.
Primordius; Good amount, different mechanics
Dark Animus; Decent amount, good challenge. Just wish it was more obvious what ones had red hands
Iron Qon; Good amount, mildly interesting
Twins; Nice little mini bosses, would have liked to see the celestials actually help in this trash
Thunder King; Good trash, funny when people don't use the full area. Frogger again.

[Deleted]

For me, BWD has the perfect amount of trash. A few mobs in between bosses is all that's needed imo. Trash is just not interesting to me.

I completely agree with this, it had enough trash to break the raid up, but not too much trash. Also all the trash in BWD had abilites, so rather than trash it was like a series of mini-bosses.

[Malkhor]

but everyone hated ToGC. Im indifferent to trash

I loved ToGC. Anyway I'd say ToGC style or BWD style, anything over that is blegh.

[Blizzhoof]

The trash in ToT that sucks is the Ji-Kun trash, Megaera trash, and the bridge trash before Horridon. The first two just have WAY TOO MANY mobs to deal with/walk around, but the Horridon trash is special in that it's just the fact that there is a second section of the bridge. The bridge is somewhat tedious to do with it slowing you down and being a bit finicky on aggro ranges with the ghosts. If it were just the first section of bridge, then it would be totally fine.

Also, a special note about the Ji-Kun trash is that I think it's a terrible idea to have extra trash that spawns if you step on things. I understand the concept of "if you pay attention then you are rewarded with less trash," but in practice all it does is make the raid hate the idiots that pull extra trash and causes extra frustration. When you call the raid 20 minutes early because the trash to the next farm boss (Ji-Kun and Megaera) is too annoying/long, then that's bad game design.

Tortos, Lei Shen, Twins, Iron Qon, Jin'rokh, and Dark Animus (although the trash is too hard on DA) have a good amount of trash. However, Tortos' trash is absolutely perfect. It's three pulls and it introduces you to a mechanic on the fight. Tanks/healers get to see just how bad tanking the bats is damage wise and then an extra interrupt mechanic is thrown in to keep people on their toes.

TL;DR - Raids should have trash that takes about 5-8 minutes to clear if done correctly. That trash should ideally introduce you to a boss mechanic (like Tortos trash) or at least give you a feel for the theme of the boss (like Lei Shen trash)

Edit:

I completely agree with this, [BWD] had enough trash to break the raid up, but not too much trash. Also all the trash in BWD had abilites, so rather than trash it was like a series of mini-bosses.

I agree with this as well. Have a little bit of trash to break up the raid and give them abilities so as to act as mini-bosses.

[Scorp969]

trash to :
1 - boss good
2 - hate too slow
3 - hate too much
4 - perfect (tortos)
5 - hate too much
6 - hate at the start of progression snails it was fun but now they are just boring
7 - good
8 -good
9 -good
10 -boring
11 -boring
12 - boring
results is aoe packs with some big add in them are perfect
or few big adds up to 4-5 for semi cleaving fight

[Cirque]

The Jin'rohk trash is perfect. A couple of pulls, they can kill you if you slack of to much but they aren't huge investment in time. But the most important thing when it comes to trash is variety.

I have to agree. Variety is the most important. Jin'rokh thrash is cool, varied with some AoE pulls (I love those oozes). Thrash that is challenging in its own way: I liked Elegon's thrash too because of that. Thrash where you can mess with your guildies, that allows you to have fun basically. That kind of thrash is awesome. What's not fun is the bridge of shit, or Ultraxion's thrash. That's tedious at best, little fun, it's designed to be annoyed in terms of mechanics, movement -- everything.

[kharig]

i like the trash that uses a partial mechanic of the next boss, just so when we take someone new we can say "it looks like THAT, don't get hit by THAT"

[kilj]

Honestly they need to cut the trash to horridon in half.... It takes up a good chunk of time from progression.

[Deleted]

It takes 10 minutes to get past the bridge to Horridon, just pull 2 of them and hero, pull the next 2 one by one, fight the big guy, pull 2 together and use DPS CD's, pull the next 2 one by one and you're done. All in less than 10 minutes.

[Daetur]

I agree that I really liked BWD's amount of trash. I'd happily tolerate sightly more- I think 2-3 pulls between bosses and a "miniboss" here and there would be perfect.

For ToT, in my opinion, Jin trash is great, Horridon trash is awful, Council is too long (and almost makes Council feel a bit like glorified trash because it's just TROLLS TROLLS TROLLS TROLLS LOOK MORE TROLLS ANOTHER GROUP OF TROLLS), Tortos is fine, Meg is... well, most of it's skippable, but it's a bit much, kind of boring and a real pain in LFR, Ji is not good but not terrible, Durumu is tedious because it's the same thing too many times in a row, Primordius is fine, Animus is fine (but really punishing if you don't know what you're doing), Qon is fine, Consorts is fine, Lei Shen is fine.

[Pull My Finger]

I hate ToT trash. It's such a fallback to the dark ages of raiding (which some people still idealize as the best thing ever). Firelands also sucked maximum ass. I don't like the endlessly redundant, recurring, pointless trash packs you just pull toegether and nuke away. The thing they did after Horridon, for example. Terrible and so unbelievably boring that it almost becomes physically painful.

I like the concept of having less, but more meaningful and interesting trash encounters. Not the skelleton crew of 5-8 generic morons, but more like 1-2 big guys who do something interesting.

[Deleted]

i think people hated togc because it was only 2 rooms rather than no trash.

togc in a raid with nice artwork would be fine imo