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  1. #21
    Deleted
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-05-15 at 01:26 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Oops...copy/pasta fail...fixt now. Thx friend.

    Saw your reply in the other thread that 60-70 is more "normal", so I guess I don't feel AS bad, but still the above ~64% was under the most ideal fight conditions we have in this tier (stand still, hit boss). Given that I can reach mid 60's easily with HA, AND get an extra CD/non-trivial throughput increase with it, I'm still struggling with liking DP on most fights
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  3. #23
    Deleted
    If you just want a comparison between HA & DP, then it depends on the fight. In general, if you're standing there tanking a boss and he's not going to be doing much from 100% to dead, then DA will fare better. If you want or need an extra cooldown, the HA is a good choice.

    Examples of me personally wanting HA over DP include (heroic bosses wise) surviving Horridon's enrage, solo tanking Tortos so I have a cooldown for every bat pack, solo tanking Durumu and soaking a beam, solo tanking Iron Qon when I'm nearing 7 stacks of Impale and want to save my GoAK & when all the dogs and the boss are up at the end.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Oops...copy/pasta fail...fixt now. Thx friend.

    Saw your reply in the other thread that 60-70 is more "normal", so I guess I don't feel AS bad, but still the above ~64% was under the most ideal fight conditions we have in this tier (stand still, hit boss). Given that I can reach mid 60's easily with HA, AND get an extra CD/non-trivial throughput increase with it, I'm still struggling with liking DP on most fights

    Other than that, break your log down. You have 35.3% haste? Lets round down to 35%.
    Your GCD is 1.11 sec. Tortos lasted 380 seconds. You were stunned for 8 seconds by Quake Stomp so that is 372 seconds left, which is being nice since if you get stunned when a filler next in line, you do not lose any HoPo generation. You casted 6 LH and 13 SS, so that is another 7 or so, lets say 8 seconds gone to waste. So that is 364 seconds left of the fight. During which time you theoretically have 328 globals, lets say 320 gcds. Now this is all speaking in the extremes. Using all 320 GCDs is not human, but it is the potential of the fight.

    That would translate into 107 cs/hotr and 80 J
    You had 97 cs/hotr and 61 judgments. That is a possibility of 29 more holy power possible to have been gained.
    You should have gotten 3 GC procs from avoidance and 11 from CS/hotr, you had 15 procs, so you can remove 1 HoPo there due to luck. However you could have gotten off another 10 cs which would have been another 1 hopo gained so that evens eachother out.

    You used 83 SotR, which coinsist with the 57 SotR from HoPo and 26 DP procs you had, with an additional 2 HoPo being left over. You recieved 6 more DP procs than you should have so you can remove 18 seconds of uptime.

    You could have gotten 10 more SotR casts off (13 with DP), minues the 6 extra, so on average you could have gotten 7 more SotR casts off, or 5.5% uptime. So yes, 69.5% uptime is what you could have gotten. (Probably a small bit more since I rounded down in your favor a lot). And that is with 0 RNG working for or against you.
    If we look at the attempt you had, presume you would have had the exact same luck as you did with DP procs, you could have gotten 74.1% uptime on that specific attempt.

  5. #25
    I'm a little lost about halfway through there; you're saying that I missed over 15% of my HoPo gens across the fight? 80 J to 107 CS seems off, in terms of CD/GCD use. Sadly I don't have my toon to check ability CDs, and I'm in no way claiming that I play perfectly, but even with the generous rounding in my favor I have a hard time seeing that I missed almost 30 HoPo gens in a standstill fight. I dunno, maybe I do just suck...

    What should J/CS CD be with 35% haste?
    Judge = 6*.65= 3.9 sec (+.75 for pushback) = 4.65 sec CD?
    CS = 4.5*.65= 2.925 sec CD?

    I guess my OmniCC is off, since it shows 3+ sec as CD for CS for me (no CD shown for abilities below 3 sec CD). Either way, using the above numbers I get 109 CS and 69 J. Meaning I'd still have missed 12CS/8J, so 20 overall.

    WTF. I guess I'm just poorly timing SS refreshes and LH's, as those account for 20 spells (with long GCDs), which would explain the 20 missed HoPo. Poor micromanagement on my part I guess. Even so, that'd be just shy of 7 ShotR casts (call it 7 with CS procs for GC), which is offset by my "good luck" with DP of 6 extra ShotRs and I'm still squarely in the mid 60's.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-05-15 at 02:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  6. #26
    Deleted
    First off, this is calculating as a machine could play (with rounding down to your favor to account for human errors)
    I do not myself play 100% perfectly, nobody does, so on any fight you should for whatever reason to see yourself low. But that is why on a fight when everything clicks, you can see yourself high.
    The roundings where not extremely generous. At most 2-4 more HoPo gained.

    As I mentioned, taking account for DP, you were shy 13 SotRs. Though with accounting for your "luck" with DP that would be 7. Still not a huge deal. I already accounted for the increased GCDs of SS and LH.

    "You casted 6 LH and 13 SS, so that is another 7 or so, lets say 8 seconds gone to waste. So that is 364 seconds left of the fight."

    I do not think it is that you missed 30 HoPo gens, as much as the problem everyone (including myself), is that you have a delay between using your abilites, not mashing them faster enough. Lets see how many abilities you used. Your 20(19) spells with long GCD accounts or 30 seconds of the fight lost. So that brings down the fight length to 350 seconds.

    You cast 35 holy wrath, 85 cs, 12 HotR, 61 J, 35 AS, and I count 32 consecrations (could be wrong, just quickly counted), 5 hands and 3 HoW. That is 268 globals used in 350 seconds. Meaning that you used 1 spell every 1.3 seconds however your GCD is only 1.11s. (with reservation for misscounting your GCDs used, feel free to double check). Which means that basically between every spell, you had a delay of 0.19 seconds more than needed. This is the most common problem for low uptime among good tanks. Simply not mashing buttons fast enough. If we check the second most common problem it is using J>CS by accident.

    You used 85 CS and 61 J, that is a ratio of 1:0.72. The optimal ratio is 1:0.67 (give or take 0.02 depending on when the fights ends)
    So you actually did very good here. Sometimes you delayed a cs longer than needed by casting a J, but not more than a few times. Probably less than what I do, since I do that a lot.

    So all in all, you need to mash the buttons faster and have less delay between using abilities to see those extra few percents.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    What should J/CS CD be with 35% haste?
    Judge = 6*.65= 3.9 sec (+.75 for pushback) = 4.65 sec CD?
    CS = 4.5*.65= 2.925 sec CD?
    You need to apply the +0.75 on J before haste since the GCD scales with haste too.

    So 6.75/1.35
    and 4.5/1.35
    Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-05-15 at 02:55 PM.

  7. #27
    Just in checking, factoring in the stun times from stomps puts controlled fight length at 340 sec, meaning 1.268 sec uses on 1.11 sec GCD. But still, I get your point...just didn't think I was missing that much. Esp since I usually spam the hell out of everything.

    Does server latency play into spell queueing at all anymore? As in, if GCD is not available, you're hitting button just prior to it being available, does it still try and communicate with server (then get denied and have to restart) before it actually goes off? Wondering, as we are EST, playing on a PST server with ~150ms...which may also account for the ~0.158ms delay in ability use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  8. #28
    Deleted
    Server latency should not affect it, but it could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    this escalated quickly...
    hahaha

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    this escalated quickly...
    I probably should lay low for a while.

    On a related note, I may or may not have stole your DA macro.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #30
    60% of the time, Firefly suggested GID all the time.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    60% of the time, Firefly suggested GID all the time.
    I am not following. 100% of the time?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    60% of the time, Firefly suggested GID all the time.
    It's made with bits of real dragon, so you know it's good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I am not following. 100% of the time?
    Go watch Anchorman: Legend of Ron Burgundy. Do not return here until you have done so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  13. #33
    Any mod care to fix the title? That extra s is tingling my inner grammar nazi D:

    You're welcome. - Malthanis
    Ta
    Last edited by Rasstapp; 2013-05-15 at 09:06 PM.

  14. #34
    Ok so good to know that it does still work that way. At least for those of you DAN UNDA. Not trying to make excuses at all, obviously, just understand why I was "missing" so many HoPo gens. So, I appreciate the validation.'

    No idea about FPS references though....but I'll take that as a compliment or something.

    Also, your Devo aura macro caused some issues in the raid; ppl told me that swag is for boys, and I should make it 6 seconds of class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasstapp View Post
    Any mod care to fix the title? That extra s is tingling my inner grammar nazi D:

    You're welcome. - Malthanis
    Ta
    Sorry, I spotted it as soon as I posted the thread. brain must have just turned off and added the extra letter!

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Okay now that discussion died down on paladin forum, I got a confession to make.

    I have used HA on one fight in both T14 and T15. That was Garalon in HoF. Ofc I tried it sometimes, but always found it worse than the other choices so Garalon was the only fight that I actually chose it over the others. But that was because I was playing with EF!
    I loved that. Popping HA and blanketing the entire raid with EF, was a huge raid healing CD.
    Not sure so many people used HA as a cooldown to blanket raid with EF, I like the idea, sadly SS is to strong on most fights.

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Okay now that discussion died down on paladin forum, I got a confession to make.

    I have used HA on one fight in both T14 and T15. That was Garalon in HoF. Ofc I tried it sometimes, but always found it worse than the other choices so Garalon was the only fight that I actually chose it over the others. But that was because I was playing with EF!
    I loved that. Popping HA and blanketing the entire raid with EF, was a huge raid healing CD.
    Not sure so many people used HA as a cooldown to blanket raid with EF, I like the idea, sadly SS is to strong on most fights.
    I might have done that a bit on Elegon. Maybe perhaps possibly.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Animma View Post
    I might have done that a bit. Maybe perhaps possibly.
    That used to be my answer when I was younger and my mom asked me if I had done my homework.

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