Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Ultima's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,399

    Ret / Unholy / MW

    Hey. Trying this comp at the moment with decent success.

    I want to try and get a good strategy down for the comp, what kind of CC chain and such.

    Tips, advice, suggestions?

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans DiscoGhost's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Behind the Pillar
    Posts
    2,733
    my favorite comp is dk/ret/disc(me).its a healer killer comp.

    start on dps, get the healer into a blinding light/asphix combo/gnaw. hopefully he trinkets one. then switch to the healer when he had no trinket and when asphix/foj is back up. even if its on dr, should die in a foj/asphix combo.
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

  3. #3
    All im going to say is I would wait until 5.3 to get serious with this comp, its going to get exponentially stronger especially with a MW healer. IMO this is going to be a r1 viable comp but who knows.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    All im going to say is I would wait until 5.3 to get serious with this comp, its going to get exponentially stronger especially with a MW healer. IMO this is going to be a r1 viable comp but who knows.
    The counter to it will, as always, be to train the Ret Paladin.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    The counter to it will, as always, be to train the Ret Paladin.
    and we have a winner.

    at least until 5.3. If they give us more defensive utility and not base everything on bubble.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    The counter to it will, as always, be to train the Ret Paladin.
    That's like the 11th commandment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Vathius View Post
    and we have a winner.

    at least until 5.3. If they give us more defensive utility and not base everything on bubble.
    Thats where a MW monks stupid strong powerhealing comes in, especially once they get nimble brew. And your ret can play as defensive as he needs to with an unholy running the pressure train. Then its blow cds and nuke people, damage is pretty much unhealable now, in 5.3 its gonna be really strong as well even after the power nerfs.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    Is it though? Ret gets a damage boost and MW Monk gets nimble brew but also Ring of Peace gets nerfed.
    ~13% dmg boost for rets, NB for MW monks, rogue/hunter/spriest nerfed, how could it not get alot better?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    how is hunter nefed? 10% AP Buff and one potential bonus AoE Stun/fakeroot Ability, or two with readiness.
    BM hunters (when I say OP hunters thats what I mean) gain 10% AP. MM gain some stuff which should put them in a good spot but no where near where BM is right now.

    They lose: 2400 pvp power during rapid fire, intimidate, pet cc cds pretty much doubled in most cases, and Blink strike no longer a huge burst ability. Overall its a BM nerf, especially the large chunk of pvp power during rapid fire.

    Anyway the whole thing im seeing is UH dks arent getting nerfed and their solo damage alone is crazy pressure, so if "train the ret" is your strat and the dk can sit in unholy pres your going to be in trouble, especially with a healer with 2 trinkets and 2 Sac's from his pally to get out of cc.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    ~13% dmg boost for rets, NB for MW monks, rogue/hunter/spriest nerfed, how could it not get alot better?
    Rets will still struggle big time against a Wizard team.

    UH/Ret/MW sounds very weak CC wise and reminds me more of TSG where you either win in 1 minute with constant pressure or lose.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Thats where a MW monks stupid strong powerhealing comes in, especially once they get nimble brew. And your ret can play as defensive as he needs to with an unholy running the pressure train. Then its blow cds and nuke people, damage is pretty much unhealable now, in 5.3 its gonna be really strong as well even after the power nerfs.
    monks don't have "powerhealing" they have amazing cleave healing, which you see in an rbg format but in a 3s setting its one of the weaker healing toolsets.

  12. #12
    Warchief
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    2,075
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    BM hunters (when I say OP hunters thats what I mean) gain 10% AP. MM gain some stuff which should put them in a good spot but no where near where BM is right now.

    They lose: 2400 pvp power during rapid fire, intimidate, pet cc cds pretty much doubled in most cases, and Blink strike no longer a huge burst ability. Overall its a BM nerf, especially the large chunk of pvp power during rapid fire.

    Anyway the whole thing im seeing is UH dks arent getting nerfed and their solo damage alone is crazy pressure, so if "train the ret" is your strat and the dk can sit in unholy pres your going to be in trouble, especially with a healer with 2 trinkets and 2 Sac's from his pally to get out of cc.
    It's a burst nerf, but Blink Strikes is going to make your pet unkiteable and do pretty insane consistent dps, especially with the +800 pvp power all the time now. Hunters are really only getting nerfed in the CC aspect.
    Can't nimble brew a poly or blind, so its not a true trinket. CC is still going to be punishing to MW quite a bit. The problem is, if DK's are so strong and don't even need the Ret... why are you taking a weak class for no reason? Why not take a Mage? A Feral? Enhance? Spriest? (only void shift and MD cast time are getting nerfed... will still be strong because their damage and CC is still potent, and can cleanse allies much better than Ret can.)

    Ret will still be weak compared to a feral or even Enhance next patch. Feral would just bring more CC, have more mobility, an just as strong of heals while being a harder target to kill.

    Going to have to say, though, that Enhance/DK/MW would just be a better team all around.

  13. #13
    Tbh i think many underestimate how good 5.3 looks for rets and with competent DK properly utilising dark sim, grips and stragulate there's a big chance to drop something down during first wings. Although imo priest will fill the healer role better since CC and healing is stronger then MW and one extra penance with holy fire can seal a kill, besides having ret in team will decrease priest vulnerability against melee cleaves by a huge margin too.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    It's a burst nerf, but Blink Strikes is going to make your pet unkiteable and do pretty insane consistent dps, especially with the +800 pvp power all the time now. Hunters are really only getting nerfed in the CC aspect.
    Can't nimble brew a poly or blind, so its not a true trinket. CC is still going to be punishing to MW quite a bit. The problem is, if DK's are so strong and don't even need the Ret... why are you taking a weak class for no reason? Why not take a Mage? A Feral? Enhance? Spriest? (only void shift and MD cast time are getting nerfed... will still be strong because their damage and CC is still potent, and can cleanse allies much better than Ret can.)

    Ret will still be weak compared to a feral or even Enhance next patch. Feral would just bring more CC, have more mobility, an just as strong of heals while being a harder target to kill.

    Going to have to say, though, that Enhance/DK/MW would just be a better team all around.
    Im not saying rets will be the best class for that spot, but I think alot of people underestimate rets. Their burst with CDs is among the highest in the game, its seriously scary. And rets cc is arguably alot better than enhance and only slightly worse than feral with a instant aoe blind and a 30 sec cd ranged 6 sec stun to compliment aspyhxiate. Every 30 seconds you can drop alot of ranged instant cc. With sac breaking the monk out of cc twice and freedoms for your dk, its definitely a strong setup. Probably better with a different healer, but MW should work fine imo.

  15. #15
    Warchief
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    2,075
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Im not saying rets will be the best class for that spot, but I think alot of people underestimate rets. Their burst with CDs is among the highest in the game, its seriously scary. And rets cc is arguably alot better than enhance and only slightly worse than feral with a instant aoe blind and a 30 sec cd ranged 6 sec stun to compliment aspyhxiate. Every 30 seconds you can drop alot of ranged instant cc. With sac breaking the monk out of cc twice and freedoms for your dk, its definitely a strong setup. Probably better with a different healer, but MW should work fine imo.
    I would argue DK burst and Warrior burst can be just as scary, and they have CC breaks. Ret does not. All you really need to do to Ret to prevent CD rapeage is CC them. The Aoe Blind has a 2 min CD and is worse than a skilled shammy using Capacitor. Fist and Asphyx will DR, meaning its really only like 9 seconds, or you could just Instant Hex into an Asphyxiate... and Enhance does comparable(maybe even more in 5.3) burst to a Ret, with more defense abilities and self peels. And another purge.

    Until Ret has something akin to Cata Sacred Shield and Cata Last Word, Ret won't be as strong as it was during the days of Vanguards cleave.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    I would argue DK burst and Warrior burst can be just as scary, and they have CC breaks. Ret does not. All you really need to do to Ret to prevent CD rapeage is CC them. The Aoe Blind has a 2 min CD and is worse than a skilled shammy using Capacitor. Fist and Asphyx will DR, meaning its really only like 9 seconds, or you could just Instant Hex into an Asphyxiate... and Enhance does comparable(maybe even more in 5.3) burst to a Ret, with more defense abilities and self peels. And another purge.

    Until Ret has something akin to Cata Sacred Shield and Cata Last Word, Ret won't be as strong as it was during the days of Vanguards cleave.
    You could really argue either way. Sure enh has a purge and hex (which is fairly weak since so many comps run mages or druids or shams), but they also dont have an immunity cd like rets (bubble is soooooo much stronger now due to the priest MD nerfs) do or bop to save their dk during a dance/Reck. Asphyx and FoJ DR but obv you can use them on different targets, having 2 long duration stuns on such a short cd is pretty brutal. Capacitor is more counterable than FoJ, but any non-high-end rating yea I agree capacitor used right with the throw is pretty good.

    Moral of the story, melee hybrid + dk + healer will be good imo.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    Im not saying rets will be the best class for that spot, but I think alot of people underestimate rets. Their burst with CDs is among the highest in the game, its seriously scary. And rets cc is arguably alot better than enhance and only slightly worse than feral with a instant aoe blind and a 30 sec cd ranged 6 sec stun to compliment aspyhxiate. Every 30 seconds you can drop alot of ranged instant cc. With sac breaking the monk out of cc twice and freedoms for your dk, its definitely a strong setup. Probably better with a different healer, but MW should work fine imo.
    rets are a lot easier to control then dks and warriors, yes their burst is very very scary, but they are also the easiest to control of all the melee. what's more, they are vulnerable to being controlled them though pressure alone because their defenses are so weak.

    ret/uhdk/mw is really a poor man's ret/dk/priest. the monk brings a decent amount of offensive control but they don't have the raw mitigation of a priest which the ret really needs in order to stay alive.

    enhance is arguably better than ret because they have better survival cooldowns, the ability to both counter casters with shock/purge/tremor AND support a stronger melee like a warrior/feral/dk with windwalk.

    not saying ret is unviable, but its the weak point in any comp. i ended up going back holy for the first time since S8 because i was just so fed up with how weak ret is.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  18. #18
    Warchief
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    2,075
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    rets are a lot easier to control then dks and warriors, yes their burst is very very scary, but they are also the easiest to control of all the melee. what's more, they are vulnerable to being controlled them though pressure alone because their defenses are so weak.

    ret/uhdk/mw is really a poor man's ret/dk/priest. the monk brings a decent amount of offensive control but they don't have the raw mitigation of a priest which the ret really needs in order to stay alive.

    enhance is arguably better than ret because they have better survival cooldowns, the ability to both counter casters with shock/purge/tremor AND support a stronger melee like a warrior/feral/dk with windwalk.

    not saying ret is unviable, but its the weak point in any comp. i ended up going back holy for the first time since S8 because i was just so fed up with how weak ret is.
    I couldn't even stand Holy even, to be honest. Just so many glaring weak points with Holy compared to other healers (yes, they have the most instant cast heals... but they don't have multiple oh shit buttons and practically no self peels.)

    But yeah, as has been said, Ret/DK/Priest might work, but the weak point of the comp will be Ret. Will honestly only be there as a mastery buff and hand-bot.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    rets are a lot easier to control then dks and warriors, yes their burst is very very scary, but they are also the easiest to control of all the melee. what's more, they are vulnerable to being controlled them though pressure alone because their defenses are so weak.

    ret/uhdk/mw is really a poor man's ret/dk/priest. the monk brings a decent amount of offensive control but they don't have the raw mitigation of a priest which the ret really needs in order to stay alive.

    enhance is arguably better than ret because they have better survival cooldowns, the ability to both counter casters with shock/purge/tremor AND support a stronger melee like a warrior/feral/dk with windwalk.

    not saying ret is unviable, but its the weak point in any comp. i ended up going back holy for the first time since S8 because i was just so fed up with how weak ret is.
    I'm temped to disagree with you in a lot of points concerning ret:
    1) rets offhealing is miles stronger then ench - they get way better heal then ench free of cost every 3d judgement (and since most are stacking haste cd on it is damn low) that they can follow easilly with WoG,
    2) their teammate propection is superior to ench is every way since 1 clutch BoP can easilly save your healer from inevitable death, BoS is insane too serving as both a dmg decrease for trained target or out of cc card for a healer
    3) BoF is extremly strong too for both healer propection and DK mobility since ret himself can cleanse movement imparing effects of himself (and that opens DK to picking chillblains serving as permaslow since asphyxiate isn't that needed with rets own short cd stun)
    4) purge isn't really needed since dk pretty much spam BB and IT providing constant dispell and decease spread whille doing better dmg against higher armor classes then using festering strike
    5) ench is 1 time burst per arena match class whille ret can easilly blow cds right away since they'll be up shortly after
    6) rets burst is insane, fully geared it's not unseen off droping 300k in 3 gcd
    7) enchs generally will have stronger dmg reduction then rets come next patch, but... against plently of teams bubble is a 100% lifesaver (and if you've priest healer then there's still lots of stuff to fall back on like PS and VS.
    8) Generally combination of good dk and ret and priest can setup insane cc chains with dark simed cc, stun, fears, aoe disorient. With setup preassure potential i easilly see half games ending in first dark simed cc followed by hoj into silence.

    Imo for ench preferable partner would be rogues with their strong lockdown, together they'll be able to peel from priest better and will be caster cleaves bane, as for dk/priest i don't see a better addition then ret. But one thing for sure - MW don't fit this setup as good as priest, not even close.
    Last edited by Nyaldee; 2013-05-18 at 10:52 AM.

  20. #20
    I don't get how people are underestimating how strong DK/ret/healer will be next patch, especially with a disc. First off several ppl have mentioned asfixate when clearly strang would be stronger in this comp. HoJ into strang on a healer is proly a kill without good peels and you can do this every minute. The ret brings so many tools like BoP,freedom,sac,off heals to help his healer. Mabey this won't be a tier 1 comp, but I think tier 2 for sure. It will struggle against caster cleaves a bit though

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •