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  1. #1

    Recast dots when there's a raid buff/boss debuff?

    So there's something I've never been sure of. When we get a damage buff in a boss fight,
    like in the water puddles in Jin'Rokh
    or standing in the circle near the legs on Garalon,
    or when you get the Nutriment buff in Ji'Kun,
    or when you're fully mutated in Primordius

    do we have to recast our dots to see the effect, or do our currently applied dots dynamically increase their damage?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by schmearcampain View Post
    So there's something I've never been sure of. When we get a damage buff in a boss fight,
    like in the water puddles in Jin'Rokh
    or standing in the circle near the legs on Garalon,
    or when you get the Nutriment buff in Ji'Kun,
    or when you're fully mutated in Primordius

    do we have to recast our dots to see the effect, or do our currently applied dots dynamically increase their damage?
    Buffs on the player do not affect already applied dots, and so they will need recast.

    Debuffs on the target are applied dynamically and calculated on a per-tick basis.

  3. #3
    So in all the cases I listed above, they need to be recast, right? As they all appear to be personal buffs.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Keosen's Avatar
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    Personal buff -> Recast
    Boss debuff -> They will buffed on next tick.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    I _think_ that % based buffs, like Jin'rokh and Garalon are updated dynamically, while static buffs such as Spiritual Innervation from Gara'jal or Fully Mutated from Primordius (Gives x Mastery, y Haste or z Intellect etc.) are bound by the laws of snapshotting.

    So stepping into a pool on Jin'rokh you wouldn't have to refresh your dots, but becoming Fully Mutated (this buff doesn't do anything except for making you deal proper damage to the boss, right?, we are actually talking about the lesser buffs, right, 5% stats, that type of thing?) requires you to recast your dots, snapshot style.

    That's if I'm right.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Filth the Warlock View Post
    I _think_ that % based buffs, like Jin'rokh and Garalon are updated dynamically, while static buffs such as Spiritual Innervation from Gara'jal or Fully Mutated from Primordius (Gives x Mastery, y Haste or z Intellect etc.) are bound by the laws of snapshotting.

    So stepping into a pool on Jin'rokh you wouldn't have to refresh your dots, but becoming Fully Mutated (this buff doesn't do anything except for making you deal proper damage to the boss, right?, we are actually talking about the lesser buffs, right, 5% stats, that type of thing?) requires you to recast your dots, snapshot style.

    That's if I'm right.
    I think it's the other way around...Stepping into a puddle is just like your trinket proccing, and would require a recast. But if say...someone put up CoE after you've put your DoTs up, then it would just automatically start taking 5% more damage.
    Regen#1804 need NA overwatch friends.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    I think it's the other way around...Stepping into a puddle is just like your trinket proccing, and would require a recast. But if say...someone put up CoE after you've put your DoTs up, then it would just automatically start taking 5% more damage.
    The pool on Jin'rokh should work like the inner ring on Elegon, which does not require dot refreshing, as far as I remember.

  8. #8
    I'm glad to see nobody else really knows either

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by schmearcampain View Post
    I'm glad to see nobody else really knows either
    He's probably more right than me. I don't know about fight mechanics like the puddles, but the logic I'm using is when a trinket procs you have to recast, why would gaining a buff/debuff you didn't have before not follow the same rules? That's the way I see it at least. I'm probably wrong here, but that just makes sense to me.
    Regen#1804 need NA overwatch friends.

  10. #10
    Deleted
    This reminds me of a comment on one of Evrelias videos regarding dps on Garalon.

    Comment:
    Are you sure the +damage debuff from the legs does not update automatically your dots? I tested this some time ago on normal mode, dottet a leg up and stepped into the ring, the dots were updated on a per tick basis. There was also a post on MMO-Champs forum which confirmed my test. I think debuffs which give you +damage work another way than buffs. Or is this a heroic only thing?
    Evrelia:
    I think you are correct. This was an oversight on my part as buffs work in this way.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by schmearcampain View Post
    I'm glad to see nobody else really knows either
    People do know, it's just that everyone seem to ignore the first to replies from ComputerNerd and Keosen.

    Effects on you - needs refresh.
    Effects on target - scales dynamically.

    There are a few exceptions to this, one being legs on Garalon where testing proved to be that although you get a debuff when stepping into the rings, your dots scale dynamically as if it was an effect on the leg.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakpoth View Post
    People do know, it's just that everyone seem to ignore the first to replies from ComputerNerd and Keosen.

    Effects on you - needs refresh.
    Effects on target - scales dynamically.

    There are a few exceptions to this, one being legs on Garalon where testing proved to be that although you get a debuff when stepping into the rings, your dots scale dynamically as if it was an effect on the leg.
    Those first posts only mentioned buffs on players and debuffs on targets. The question was about debuffs on players that increase damage done. Afaik, the jin rokh pool should scale dynamically if garalons legs did, sicne they kinda work the same way.

  13. #13
    Jin'rokh's pools are easy to test: join LFR, start logging, cast your first set of dots on target when the first pool appears and once dots are on the boss, step in the pool (let them tick once or twice before stepping in). Leave LFR, upload logs and check how much damage your dots did. If damage goes up, you don't have to recast them. If it stays the same, then the recast is needed.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakpoth View Post
    People do know, it's just that everyone seem to ignore the first to replies from ComputerNerd and Keosen.

    Effects on you - needs refresh.
    Effects on target - scales dynamically.

    There are a few exceptions to this, one being legs on Garalon where testing proved to be that although you get a debuff when stepping into the rings, your dots scale dynamically as if it was an effect on the leg.
    So in your terminology, the term "debuff" doesn't necessarily mean a stat downgrade? This is why I'm confused. So any icons that end up on the same bar as Exhaustion are debuffs, regardless of what they actually do to you?

  15. #15
    Tested how Jin'rokh's pools work and you have to recast dots or you won't get the damage bonus (Corruption and UA ticks did same damage before and after stepping in a pool).

    Also tested pet damage (if someone still doubts will pets get damage buff when player stands in the pool) and kept my Fel Imp outside the pool. Once I stepped in, Felbolts started doing exactly 40% more damage.
    Last edited by Spoiledkid; 2013-05-24 at 04:16 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by rables View Post
    Those first posts only mentioned buffs on players and debuffs on targets. The question was about debuffs on players that increase damage done. Afaik, the jin rokh pool should scale dynamically if garalons legs did, sicne they kinda work the same way.
    In that case, my mistake. As for debuffs/buffs, all effects (that means both buffs and debuffs) on you require refreshing, while all effects on target is dynamic. Garalon was an exception.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoiledkid View Post
    Tested how Jin'rokh's pools work and you have to recast dots or you won't get the damage bonus (Corruption and UA ticks did same damage before and after stepping in a pool).

    Also tested pet damage (if someone still doubts will pets get damage buff when player stands in the pool) and kept my Fel Imp outside the pool. Once I stepped in, Felbolts started doing exactly 40% more damage.
    Excellent work my good man! Now, try recasting dots just before you step out for lightning storm and see if the damage buff holds for the duration.

    What? You just finished and don't want to queue again? Especially for no VP and LFR gear which you don't need? You lazy, good for nothing warlock! This is for science! The betterment of affliction warlocks worldwide! Do the right thing and wait in another 48 minute queue!

    JK of course. I'd hop in if I weren't at work.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoiledkid View Post
    Tested how Jin'rokh's pools work and you have to recast dots or you won't get the damage bonus (Corruption and UA ticks did same damage before and after stepping in a pool).

    Also tested pet damage (if someone still doubts will pets get damage buff when player stands in the pool) and kept my Fel Imp outside the pool. Once I stepped in, Felbolts started doing exactly 40% more damage.
    Good to know, thanks for testing this out.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Spoiledkid View Post
    Tested how Jin'rokh's pools work and you have to recast dots or you won't get the damage bonus (Corruption and UA ticks did same damage before and after stepping in a pool).

    Also tested pet damage (if someone still doubts will pets get damage buff when player stands in the pool) and kept my Fel Imp outside the pool. Once I stepped in, Felbolts started doing exactly 40% more damage.
    For destro, though, it seemed that just stepping in the pool automatically made my RoF start hitting harder (no recast) and immolate.
    Regen#1804 need NA overwatch friends.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    For destro, though, it seemed that just stepping in the pool automatically made my RoF start hitting harder (no recast) and immolate.
    RoF counts as periodic damage but it itself isn't a DoT. It can trigger periodic events, but doesn't follow the same damage rules as DoTs do.

    Immolate should've been just like any other dot and required a refresh.

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